How could India / Pak / B'Desh manufacturing labour compete with China's?

[SinoChallenger]

2,000 yuan * 15 months(bonus included) = 30,000 Yuan, or 2500 Yuan a month. This is a very good wage in China.

You have no idea about contemporary China, please! RMB 2500 will only get you a 9 to 5 unskilled worker, like hiring a person to stand there giving out flyers or a security guard. Something a little bit more intense like a factory job, where overtime is expected, you'll have to pay RMB 3000 just for an unskilled. If you want somebody skilled to operate machinery, then you're talking RMB 4000 to RMB 6000.

Remember that's just the employee's pre-tax income. An employer will also need to pay social security for its employees.

Chinese employers pay only 4,000 Yuan to American English teachers, 4 times the pay of Chinese teachers.

Local teachers get paid RMB 4000 starting out. With experience and credentials, that goes up to RMB 8000. Where they said the salary they are offering to foreigners is 4x more than the local salary scale is bull$hit. It's exactly the local salary scale.

 

[fly2012]

teach english in china : University of Southern California



Chinese employers pay only 4,000 Yuan to American English teachers, 4 times the pay of Chinese teachers.

No real teacher earn 1000 yuan a month in cities. My father is a retired teacher with 3500 yuan ($550) monthly pension. And he constantly complains that he retired before the salary raise and his salary is just a portion of what active teachers earn. And my home town is in Northeast China, not a rich area. My sister's in-laws retired from Shenzhen as teachers and each has a montly pension of 10000 - 12000 Yuan ($1600). For Amercians that don't have a job locally, 4000 - 8000 a month is not bad.

 

[fly2012]

Actually 2011.



2,000 yuan * 15 months(bonus included) = 30,000 Yuan, or 2500 Yuan a month. This is a very good wage in China.

No one knows your ignorance if you keep quiet. 2500 Yuan is an above average salary wage for people who have absolutely no skill (including college graducate who learned nothing in school). Even with 3500 you cannot find a babysitter in Beijing. Reading selective internet news doesn't make you an expert on China.

 

[below_freezing]

Actually 2011.



2,000 yuan * 15 months(bonus included) = 30,000 Yuan, or 2500 Yuan a month. This is a very good wage in China.

Try an actual job search site.

Mode salary for teachers at the bachelor's level (教师） is 3000-4499 RMB per month.

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Mode salary for unskilled laborers (普工）is 2000-2999 RMB.

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51job.com is one of the largest job search sites on China with a database of over 1 million companies, government agencies and organizations.

 

[Maler]

Anyway I think this is a very serious question worth discussing and let's don't turn it into peeping contest. Comparing one's model factories against other's sweat shop doesn't prove anything. So back to the question, for a poor populous rural developing country that doesn't have oil to sell (China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonisia, Phillipines), what's the best way to turn it around? Please present your argument.

You are 1ne of quite a few sane chinese posters, i like to read & follow at PDF.

On development topic, China is going to face hard competition from India and it might be hard to digest for some Chinese guys here at PDF, but its going to be the current and future reality & its good for you to face reality at its initial stage.

Yes you take the lead & edge by starting first and without facing any competition from any other developing Asian country. You called initial shots a decade or a decade and half before us, when India was still struggling between socialism & capitalism. But no worries, we still have our plenty of shots with us and we have already started playing them quite well. Also, our initial shots made China off balance. You will see a few new Indian tricks in very near future too. I think you & others should know that our diplomats, entrepreneurs & industrialist have more better international exposure than Chinese & thats going to be helpful for us in the long run in our future growth, development & competitiveness.

 

[below_freezing]

You are 1ne of quite a few sane chinese posters, i like to read & follow at PDF.

On development topic, China is going to face hard competition from India and it might be hard to digest for some Chinese guys here at PDF, but its going to be the current and future reality & its good for you to face reality at its initial stage.

Yes you take the lead & edge by starting first and without facing any competition from any other developing Asian country. You called initial shots a decade or a decade and half before us, when India was still struggling between socialism & capitalism. But no worries, we still have our plenty of shots with us and we have already started playing them quite well. Also, our initial shots made China off balance. You will see a few new Indian tricks in very near future too. I think you & others should know that our diplomats, entrepreneurs & industrialist have more better international exposure than Chinese & thats going to be helpful for us in the long run in our future growth, development & competitiveness.

both countries got started in the 1940's. India had a 2 year head start.

 

[northeast]

You are 1ne of quite a few sane chinese posters, i like to read & follow at PDF.

On development topic, China is going to face hard competition from India and it might be hard to digest for some Chinese guys here at PDF, but its going to be the current and future reality & its good for you to face reality at its initial stage.

Yes you take the lead & edge by starting first and without facing any competition from any other developing Asian country. You called initial shots a decade or a decade and half before us, when India was still struggling between socialism & capitalism. But no worries, we still have our plenty of shots with us and we have already started playing them quite well. Also, our initial shots made China off balance. You will see a few new Indian tricks in very near future too. I think you & others should know that our diplomats, entrepreneurs & industrialist have more better international exposure than Chinese & thats going to be helpful for us in the long run in our future growth, development & competitiveness.

err，most chinese don't see india as a competitor.
sorry to disappoint you，but i don't think we need to change it.

 

[longyi]

That is the problem with the Chinese. Here in North America, there are very few people who consider themselves as Chinese. I guess those that immigrate are pissed at their own people for a reason. China was once a very patriotic country, but now, it seems as though they've shifted towards Capitalism.

You are way off the mark,sir. And please don't write anything you know nothings about.
As the others using a few isolated cases to bash the whole manufacturing industry that employs more than 100mln people in China are unjust and ignorant.

 

[longyi]

India cannot compete with China, period, in manufacturing without changing her labor laws and spend a very large sum for infrastructures.
Even your own well capitalized companies would open factories offshore.

 

[below_freezing]

India cannot compete with China, period, in manufacturing without changing her labor laws and spend a very large sum for infrastructures.
Even your own well capitalized companies would open factories offshore.

India's labor laws are already very liberal. They allow 7 year old children to break rocks and haul dirt. That's true freedom and democracy.

 

[Avatar]

There's no point currently, that is why India has effectively skipped an industrial revolution and gone straight into services and high-end manufacturing. Later when the demographic dividend comes into play, India can have a look at taking over from China in manufacturing in bulk.

There being no point has nothing to do with India skipping Industrial development. The explanation is simple, India does not possess infrastructure to make industrialization competitive with China whereas services are a convenient way of value creation for India. India will be able to compete only after development of infrastructure and better governance. Even currently there is enough unemployment to rule out any demographic advantage. Also there is little knowledge about what manufacturing systems will be used in future.

On another note, I doubt Apple can be blamed for how it's suppliers handle their affairs. For the price they are paying, its more of a bargain.

---------- Post added at 06:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 AM ----------

India's labor laws are already very liberal. They allow 7 year old children to break rocks and haul dirt. That's true freedom and democracy.

What non sense. It really humors me when the Chinese talk about labor laws.

 

[Avatar]

both countries got started in the 1940's. India had a 2 year head start.

If we make a database of all your posts, and randomly copy paste something to any thread, it could probably go on for the rest of your life without anyone noticing.

 

[AADHAAR]

Damn ... the chinese trollers have again hijacked this thread.

This thread is about India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.... only.

Nobody wants to chinese to "justify their labour conditions", "describing wage rates in China".... still, I have to accept they have refrained from going to the extent of "toilets" and "1962" (which are the only reasoning why most of them come to this forum).

If chinese "enjoy" Foxconn.. please do. Nobody envies it.

 

[fly2012]

You are 1ne of quite a few sane chinese posters, i like to read & follow at PDF.

On development topic, China is going to face hard competition from India and it might be hard to digest for some Chinese guys here at PDF, but its going to be the current and future reality & its good for you to face reality at its initial stage.

Yes you take the lead & edge by starting first and without facing any competition from any other developing Asian country. You called initial shots a decade or a decade and half before us, when India was still struggling between socialism & capitalism. But no worries, we still have our plenty of shots with us and we have already started playing them quite well. Also, our initial shots made China off balance. You will see a few new Indian tricks in very near future too. I think you & others should know that our diplomats, entrepreneurs & industrialist have more better international exposure than Chinese & thats going to be helpful for us in the long run in our future growth, development & competitiveness.

I am aware of all Indian's advantage you mentioned. What I don't agree with a lot of Indian members here is that I don't think you can skip labor intensive manufacturing and be a service based developed country. I know service based economy have higher margines but it won't absort a lot of unskilled workers, which all developing countries share in common. Labor intensive works like Foxconn factories, regardless how bad it is, is the only way to pull huge number of really poor people out of abject poverty.

BTW, Chinese started large industrial economic reform in 1991 (Symbolized by the openning of Shanghai Stock Exchange in 1991. The 1978 reform was only on agricultural sector to give farmers freedom on how their manage their land. A few cities like Shenzhen were picked in 1980s to experiment capitalism, and normal Chinese are not allowed to enter these cities without special permission.

 

[below_freezing]

Damn ... the chinese trollers have again hijacked this thread.

This thread is about India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.... only.

Nobody wants to chinese to "justify their labour conditions", "describing wage rates in China".... still, I have to accept they have refrained from going to the extent of "toilets" and "1962" (which are the only reasoning why most of them come to this forum).

If chinese "enjoy" Foxconn.. please do. Nobody envies it.

Typical Indian 7%er bribe taker. How dare you speak for the children breaking rocks and hauling dirt at the Commonwealth Games instead of going to school.

Every Indian here is part of the bribe taking elite class, because only 7% of Indians can go online. They cannot speak for the children being forced to haul dirt.