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How Civilizations Die: (And Why Iran is Dying Too)

I will.Once I'm done with school and find a handsome husband. I don't care about race, but he has to be educated, polite, and familiar with middle Eastern culture! :)

Yo kitty! Need a volunteer? Our offspring will jump high and have pretty eyes. :smokin:
 
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@iranigirl2 , the picture you posted says 'islam' not iran.


Most of the book is about Muslim countries, like Iran, turkey, etc...

and there's a whole chapter about Iran.

and since this is the Iranian section of this forum , I changed Islam to Iran.
 
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Goldman is an islamophobe.



David Goldman's book, How Civilizations Die: (And Why IRAN Is Dying Too), highlights the grim future. This is a must read for Iranians.


But Islamic society is even more fragile. As Muslim fertility shrinks at a rate demographers have never seen before, it is converging on Europe's catastrophically low fertility as if in time-lapse photography. The average 30-year-old Iranian woman comes from a family of six children, but she will bear only one or two children during her lifetime. Turkey and Algeria are just behind Iran on the way down, and most of the other Muslim countries are catching up quickly. By the middle of this century, the belt of Muslim countries from Morocco to Iran will become as gray as depopulating Europe. The Islamic world will have the same proportion of dependent elderly as the industrial countries - but one-tenth the productivity. A time bomb that cannot be defused is ticking in the Muslim world.



If demographic winter is encroaching slowly on the West, a snap frost has overtaken the Muslim world. Europe has had two hundred years to make the transition from the high fertility rates of rural life to the low fertility rates of the industrial world. Iran, Turkey, Tunisia, and Algeria are attempting it in twenty. The graying of the Muslim world in lapsed time, as it were, can have only tragic consequences.

Think of a train wreck: the front car hits an obstacle, and the rear cars collapse accordion-style with the momentum. Driving the demographics of Iran, Algeria, Tunisia, and other Muslim countries is a "locomotive made up of people in their teens and twenties. They were born into families of six or seven children. But this "locomotive" has hit a demographic wall: these young people are having only one or two children. Today's "bulge generation of young Muslims, whose political humiliation and frustration over economic stagnation stoked the Arab rebellions of 2011, will be followed by a generation dramatically smaller than their own.

Today there are more Iranians in their mid-twenties than in any other age bracket. But they are not reproducing. An educated twenty-five-year-old Iranian women today probably grew up in a family of six or seven children, but will bear only one child. The consequences will be catastrophic. Today there are nine Iranians of working age for every elderly dependent. By 2050, when the bulge in Iran’s population will be at retirement age, there will be more Iranians in their mid-sixties than in any other age bracket—seven elderly dependents for every ten working Iranians. The country produces just $4,400 per capita [adjusted constant dollars], about a tenth of America’s GDP, and most of that comes directly or indirectly from oil and natural gas reserves—which are running out.

It’s already too late to fend off the population decline. Aging populations present a danger even to rich countries with well-funded public pension systems. For poor countries with a primitive social safety net or none at all, a graying society will be a disaster. By 2070, Iran will be grayer than Europe.

Across the entire Muslim world, university-educated Muslim women bear children at the same rate as their infecund European counterparts.As soon as Muslims women break the constraints of traditional society, they have one child and sometimes two, but rarely three or four- and almost never six or seven children that their mothers bore.. These demographic and religious developments in Iran find a striking parallel in Turkey as well. A third of the 88 percent-literate Turks never attend the mosque, according to the SVS polls, along with a quarter of 82 percent-literate Iranians.


Muslim leaders show more panic about their own demographic decline than the most despondent Western pessimist. The presidents of Iran and Turkey, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Tayyip Erdogan, both warn of that their nations may be extinguished in a single generation. For the most part, the English-language media has ignored their warnings, but they pervade the Turkish- and Persian-language press and blogs. The sense of impending doom that pervades much of the Muslim world makes these countries dangerous and unstable. The risk to world security is not the gradual triumph of Islam by demographic accretion, but an era of instability, social breakdown, and aggression impelled by despair.

Iran’s Ahmadinejad, meanwhile, warns that national extinction will be the result of his country’s collapsing birth rate. On September 10, 2010, the Iranian president declared during a meeting with officials in Alborz province,“Two children” is a formula for the extinction of a nation, not the survival of a nation . . . The most recent data showing that there are only 18 children for every 10 Iranian couples should raise an alarm among the present generation . . . . This is what is wrong with the West. Negative population growth will cause the extinction of our identity and culture. The fact that we have accepted this places us on the wrong path. To want to consume more rather than having children is an act of genocide.

The Persian-language site Javan Online quoted President Ahmadinejad and also cited sociologist Majid Abhari warning of a “tidal wave of elderly” due to “decreased fertility” coming in the next few decades, leading to “workforce reduction and higher social insurance and medical costs due to an overwhelmingly elderly population.”


There is supposedly a correlation between the literacy rate of women in Muslim countries and their fertility rate. “As more Iranian women went through the school system, the researchers conclude, fewer had children.” And how do they compare with the rest of the Muslim world? Answer: “Iranian women are the best educated in the Muslim world.”Java Online, a Persian language website, had proposed that the following factors contribute to the reduction of fertility:

• Increased education for women
• Increasing employment of women
• Improved health care and family planning
• Higher marriage age
• More frequent divorce
• Urbanization



How Civilizations Die: (And Why Islam Is Dying Too): David Goldman: 9781596982734: Amazon.com: Books
 
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Well Honestly, we need a war to bring eachother together. Other than that. We'd kick eachother's a$ses.
 
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Ahmadinejad boosts maternity leave


Outgoing Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has announced increased maternity leave for mothers. The legislation has been implemented as part of the general policy of encouraging population growth, which the Ahmadinejad adopted in recent years.


The legislation revokes all previous policies aimed at controlling the population and makes a 180-degree turn to now encourage couples to have more children.

An amendment to the earlier legislation now gives mothers nine months of maternity leave, while their spouses get two weeks of mandatory leave.

The legislation was passed on June 10 and approved by the Guardian Council the following week.

Ahmadinejad boosts maternity leave
 
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I'm struck by defensive responses like none of some authors business and such, that's most unfortunate - but some respondents have hit on a important idea that they have not developed - one respondent claimed that the reason parents chose one child is because everything is now more expensive

But it seems to me that what they are really saying is that we now have a different set of values - Have you ever noticed "poor" people who do not know they are poor? They just get on with life, their joy and delight in life is their family - those are also a set of values.

And it seems to me that Mr. Goldman does not account for these sets of value systems --- Nor does he account for changes in value systems - thing may get more expensive in the future (count on it) but does it mean that societies will choose to be rid of their elderly or very young? Will they not respond to such challenges with a change in their value system? value systems respond to incentives, we have become and increasingly consumer-ist societies, we were not before and we were rather successful, relatively speaking.
 
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It is interesting to read this. Afaik, even our Parsi community is declining and has low fertility. In their case, they are not just greying but are positively silver now though. So do you think it could be something genetic rather than social or economic? Why we Indians and Pakistanis and Chinese right next door can get so many babies and they cannot?
 
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It is interesting to read this. Afaik, even our Parsi community is declining and has low fertility. In their case, they are not just greying but are positively silver now though. So do you think it could be something genetic rather than social or economic? Why we Indians and Pakistanis and Chinese right next door can get so many babies and they cannot?


These are conscious choices being made in a consumer society about what's important to them -- the Parsi community has another problem, which is that Parsi and Zardohsti are not identities that as relevant to the community as to others.
 
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It is interesting to read this. Afaik, even our Parsi community is declining and has low fertility. In their case, they are not just greying but are positively silver now though. So do you think it could be something genetic rather than social or economic? Why we Indians and Pakistanis and Chinese right next door can get so many babies and they cannot?

Lol, no It's definitely not a genetic issue.

factors contribute to the reduction of fertility in Iran:

• Increased education for women
• Increasing employment of women
• Improved health care and family planning
• Higher marriage age
• More frequent divorce
• Urbanization


The most important factor contributing to low fertility rates, is aggressive family planning program that was introduced in the early 1990's, to control population growth, otherwise we would turn out like Pakistan.

In December 1989, the government introduced a family planning program with three major goals: encouraging women to space their pregnancies by 34 years, discouraging pregnancy among women younger than 18 and older than 35, and limiting family size to three children. In 1990, the Council of Ministers created the Birth Limitation Council, in which various ministries and departments would participate. The council's objectives were to increase contraceptive prevalence among married women and to decrease the total fertility rate (TFR), the birth rate and the population growth rate. To accomplish these objectives, the council developed the following strategies:

•Organize educational programs on population issues for the general public;

•Increase married couples' access to free contraceptives;

•Provide a variety of modern contraceptives; and

•Conduct research on various aspects of family planning service delivery and on the population policy.

In 1991, a separate Directorship of Population and Family Planning was established in the Ministry of Health and Medical Education to oversee family planning service delivery within the primary health care network. As the network has developed and grown, family planning services have become more widely available. The program's services now reach remote villages with the help of local, trained health care workers.

Fertility, Contraceptive Use and Family Planning Program Activity in the Islamic Republic of Iran
 
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Taking more people from Turkic countries like Turkmenistan , Kazakistan , Azerbaijan and Russians.Even though when it comes to natural resources those Turkic countries in Central Asia are looks more rich than us in reality dictators ruling those Turkic countries(as usual dictator) stealing people's money and majority of population is far more poor than here.Thats why number of non-Turkey Turkics in here increasing every year and those guys have no problem to be classified as Turk(unlike Kurds).

Another massive migration to Turkey is Russians in particular Russian Woman and guess what? Turkish men love get their hands on a Russian woman as a wife instead of Turkish girls seen as problematic(demand too much) and arrogant compared to less demanding and mild Russian woman.As you can guess those children born from Russian wife and Turk husband became Turk too.In fact last year head of Diyanet gave a speech saying Turkish men taking too much Russian woman as wife and neglecting our own woman.

Even outside Turkic countries there are millions of Turkic people like Uzbek population in Afghanistan and Pakistan we can easily bring those guys to here give them free houses , farm fields and classify them as Turks.

In fact we already brought some number of Kyrgyz Turks from Afghanistan in 1982 and placed them to Van and they are also Village Guards > Here my post

So unlike Persians we got a very large pool of Turkic people in Central Asia so we can always create more Turks by bringing them here , in short you don't have to worry our demographic superiorty againts Kurds will always be protected.

Iran can do the same with Tajiks from Tajikistan and Afghanistan who have a high birthrate and their language is just another dialect of Farsi. But they are sunni so they will change the religious demographics of Iran alot.
 
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It is interesting to read this. Afaik, even our Parsi community is declining and has low fertility. In their case, they are not just greying but are positively silver now though. So do you think it could be something genetic rather than social or economic? Why we Indians and Pakistanis and Chinese right next door can get so many babies and they cannot?

are you retarded?

serious question
 
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