How Civilizations Die: (And Why Iran is Dying Too)

[doppelganger]

are you retarded?

serious question

No I am actually fine bro. Just wondering why you guys can't make more babies? Need help?

Very serious.

 

[rubyjackass]

I will.Once I'm done with school and find a handsome husband. I don't care about race, but he has to be educated, polite, and familiar with middle Eastern culture!

OMG! you serious?!

 

[rubyjackass]

Goldman is an islamophobe.

Well, that much seems obvious as first look. But he is a confused one at that. He picked Turkey and Iran as his prime examples, the two economies which can actually survive the demographic scare. As far as I can say, fertility rate of even less than 2(below the sustenance level of 2.1) is not bad. We in Asia have tight families. There is no problem for each kid among us taking care of one set of parents. This is something most western scholars ignore. At the worst having two parents is like taking care of two more kids. So with the same effort of having 3 kids and getting them through education, we take care of our parents while also decreasing the population for the next generation. According to these western experts, we have to rear exactly the same number of kids(3-4) so that we will get care when we are old. I am sick and tired of this BS logic. Most elderly in our countries don't live on welfare. Even if they live on welfare, they are paid very less. In India they receive $15 per month. That is not a big deal in the big scheme of things. The most urgent issue is to get our population down, not just stem the growth and maintain at current levels, we need to bring it down.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Pretty much Yes, look, I don't think that he picked Turkey and Iran out of nowhere, he must have done it on purpose, however, he was trying to avoid a key point that's the population in Europe is in decline as twice as Eastern nations. A civilization can never ceased to exist for all of a sudden, but gradually.

Both of Iran and Turkey have higher birth rates than many Western nations, therefore, if we apply his own standards, then many Western nations will ceased to exist. Cultural reservation plays an important role in this equation more than economics

As for social values, I agree, Eastern nations tend to have closer family ties than Westerns. This is our habits, and moral values, yet, it doesn't mean that Westerners lack moral values.

Well, that much seems obvious as first look. But he is a confused one at that. He picked Turkey and Iran as his prime examples, the two economies which can actually survive the demographic scare. As far as I can say, fertility rate of even less than 2(below the sustenance level of 2.1) is not bad. We in Asia have tight families. There is no problem for each kid among us taking care of one set of parents. This is something most western scholars ignore. At the worst having two parents is like taking care of two more kids. So with the same effort of having 3 kids and getting them through education, we take care of our parents while also decreasing the population for the next generation. According to these western experts, we have to rear exactly the same number of kids(3-4) so that we will get care when we are old. I am sick and tired of this BS logic. Most elderly in our countries don't live on welfare. Even if they live on welfare, they are paid very less. In India they receive $15 per month. That is not a big deal in the big scheme of things. The most urgent issue is to get our population down, not just stem the growth and maintain at current levels, we need to bring it down.

 

[rubyjackass]

Pretty much Yes, look, I don't think that he picked Turkey and Iran out of nowhere, he must have done it on purpose, however, he was trying to avoid a key point that's the population in Europe is in decline as twice as Eastern nations. A civilization can never ceased to exist for all of a sudden, but gradually.

Both of Iran and Turkey have higher birth rates than many Western nations, therefore, if we apply his own standards, then many Western nations will ceased to exist. Cultural reservation plays an important role in this equation more than economics

As for social values, I agree, Eastern nations tend to have closer family ties than Westerns. This is our habits, and moral values, yet, it doesn't mean that Westerners lack moral values.

Well, his point is that Turkey and Iran are attempting to do in 20 years what the West did in over a century. That is his reasoning for western nations' survival.

I did not say Westerners lack moral values. I just meant that there parents like to live on their own or that they do live on their own. And they have huge budgets for elderly welfare. My reasoning is just that the money spent by a family in raising a kid and its education can simply be used to support the family's elder.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Well, his point is that Turkey and Iran are attempting to do in 20 years what the West did in over a century. That is his reasoning for western nations' survival.

India had China will be the superpowers in the middle of the 21st centuries.

 

[doppelganger]

My reasoning is just that the money spent by a family in raising a kid and its education can simply be used to support the family's elder.

But Ruby, purely socioeconomically, a child is an investment with guaranteed returns of 30+ productive years, while an elder is a responsibility with no productive years remaining. One is an asset, the other a liability. For a society to progress economically, it should always have more assets than liabilities.

 

[rubyjackass]

India had China will be the superpowers in the middle of the 21st centuries.

I don't know in what sense you say that out of the blue.
China is already one. India will never be if you ask me. Indians have no appetite to jack up their armed forces. The current armed force strength is lesser(almost 30% lesser fighter squadrons for example) than the minimum required as per projections of late 80s. India may become middle income country by the end of this century if it tries hard and provided no mess rocks the boat meanwhile.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I'm just saying as we talked about the East and the West.

I don't know in what sense you say that out of the blue.
China is already one. India will never be if you ask me. Indians have no appetite to jack up their armed forces. The current armed force strength is lesser(almost 30% lesser fighter squadrons for example) than the minimum required as per projections of late 80s. India may become middle income country by the end of this century if it tries hard and provided no mess rocks the boat meanwhile.

I'm very optimistic about the future of both countries.

 

[Surenas]

India had China will be the superpowers in the middle of the 21st centuries.

What? India should be lucky if it could extent its influence in Central-Asia in the middle of the 21st century. They are still far from being a superpower.

 

[Abii]

No I am actually fine bro. Just wondering why you guys can't make more babies? Need help?

Very serious.

It's called birth control.

 

[doppelganger]

It's called birth control.

Oh

I guess iranigirl was also explaining it, as part of policy from the 80s.

So does that mean there is a one child norm as in China, but for each of the 4 wives?

 

[Anubis]

Well, that much seems obvious as first look. But he is a confused one at that. He picked Turkey and Iran as his prime examples, the two economies which can actually survive the demographic scare. As far as I can say, fertility rate of even less than 2(below the sustenance level of 2.1) is not bad. We in Asia have tight families. There is no problem for each kid among us taking care of one set of parents. This is something most western scholars ignore. At the worst having two parents is like taking care of two more kids. So with the same effort of having 3 kids and getting them through education, we take care of our parents while also decreasing the population for the next generation. According to these western experts, we have to rear exactly the same number of kids(3-4) so that we will get care when we are old. I am sick and tired of this BS logic. Most elderly in our countries don't live on welfare. Even if they live on welfare, they are paid very less. In India they receive $15 per month. That is not a big deal in the big scheme of things. The most urgent issue is to get our population down, not just stem the growth and maintain at current levels, we need to bring it down.

Western scholars(a huge number of them) judge the east with their western glasses.Broken families and skyrocketing divorce rates discourage people from getting married in the west.Divorce is not much prevalent in the western culture but they totally ignore that and think that the east(where most of the people on the planet live) is dying out!

 

[Wright]

Western scholars(a huge number of them) judge the east with their western glasses.Broken families and skyrocketing divorce rates discourage people from getting married in the west.Divorce is not much prevalent in the western culture but they totally ignore that and think that the east(where most of the people on the planet live) is dying out!

There are enormous differences in "eastern cultures". You need to be more specific. Japan, possibly South Korea face the same demographic issues faced by most developed countries. China has a 1 child police.

Very different from your country.

 

[Anubis]

There are enormous differences in "eastern cultures". You need to be more specific. Japan, possibly South Korea face the same demographic issues faced by most developed countries. China has a 1 child police.

Very different from your country.

Japan and South Korea.......u picked two unique countries.......two countries have one thing in common.......both of them are US colonies.......invaded and colonized and heavily westernized by the US of fuckin A.........They are far from eastern!!