How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[ssethii]

it's not just interception
it's,the tracking ability
your awacs can be tracked at 400km by s400 and is slow moving target . s400 has a 200km missle with speed mach 15 your awacs will need to stay away from loc
It becomes next to useless in war for fear of being shot down
this,excludes,the threat of being shot down by Rafale meteore or r74 long range bvr on mki .
your air force cannot operate freely on a 200km radius of s400 there is,real danger
s400 was designed to take out f35 Rafale and typhoons of NATO.
what chance do pakistani 50 year old mirage have or 30 year old,f16 have answer far less,chance than usa f35 French Rafale.
why because they are legacy strike platforms.

We faced all sorts of threats like that on 27 Feb too but that didn't stop us from executing the operation swift retort. In war, you face all sorts of threats but you plan accordingly to achieve your objectives minimizing your own damage.

 

[arjunk]

it's not just interception
it's,the tracking ability
your awacs can be tracked at 400km by s400 and is slow moving target . s400 has a 200km missle with speed mach 15 your awacs will need to stay away from loc
It becomes next to useless in war for fear of being shot down
this,excludes,the threat of being shot down by Rafale meteore or r74 long range bvr on mki .
your air force cannot operate freely on a 200km radius of s400 there is,real danger
s400 was designed to take out f35 Rafale and typhoons of NATO.
what chance do pakistani 50 year old mirage have or 30 year old,f16 have answer far less,chance than usa f35 French Rafale.
why because they are legacy strike platforms.

S-400 cannot track fighter sized planes at medium-low altitudes, especially in the mountains of Kashmir. The actual range in Kashmir would be 50-100km depending on where the radar is placed.

Similarly, in Punjab and Sindh, S-400 will only be able to track fighter sized aircraft 100-150km. Only large, high flying AWACS will be picked up at such ranges. S-400 can therefore be easily taken out by a small plane with decent EW capability like JF-17 Block III using a SOW. However, the many SA-3 systems of India are the real headache for Pakistan since they are concentrated along the border in large numbers.

 

[The Maverick]

S-400 cannot track fighter sized planes at medium-low altitudes, especially in the mountains of Kashmir. The actual range in Kashmir would be 50-100km depending on where the radar is placed.

Similarly, in Punjab and Sindh, S-400 will only be able to track fighter sized aircraft 100-150km. Only large, high flying AWACS will be picked up at such ranges. S-400 can therefore be easily taken out by a small plane with decent EW capability like JF-17 Block III using a SOW. However, the many SA-3 systems of India are the real headache for Pakistan since they are concentrated along the border in large numbers.

Sam 3 lol lol
buddy try
spyder
and akash
sam 8 and 9
Barak 8

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

S-400 cannot track fighter sized planes at medium-low altitudes, especially in the mountains of Kashmir. The actual range in Kashmir would be 50-100km depending on where the radar is placed.

Similarly, in Punjab and Sindh, S-400 will only be able to track fighter sized aircraft 100-150km. Only large, high flying AWACS will be picked up at such ranges. S-400 can therefore be easily taken out by a small plane with decent EW capability like JF-17 Block III using a SOW. However, the many SA-3 systems of India are the real headache for Pakistan since they are concentrated along the border in large numbers.

It is not a drama or serial.

Even your best fighter F16 if even cross the border then multiple SAM systems will be facing not alone S400.

 

[War Thunder]

1.Pakistan would develop , multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRVs)& maneuverable warheads through SHAHEEN3 BM & also future BM


2.Pakistan would develop submarine launched cruise missile i.e Babur cruise missile & CJ-10k in their future chinese Type 39B submarine ,which would give them sea based nuke deterrence & would ensure the survivability of its nuclear deterrent



3.Pakistan would produce more number of ballistic missiles & has increased production of nuclear fissile material like plutonium used for nuke bombs,so that it
would overwhelm india ABM shield ,by firing more missiles towards india


4.Pakistan would use of decoys (e.g., lightweight mylar balloons which, until re-entry, will travel on an identical trajectory with the heavier warheads), use of ablative materials or reflective coatings which limit the damage of directed energy weapons, launches of numerous harmless missiles early in an attack which might cause the defender reveal his defenses and expend valuable resources

5.Pakistan could acquire anti satellite weapon or jammers from chinato confuse indias satellites,which also play a key role in Indias anti ballistic missile shield


6.Pakistan would rely more on cruise missiles like stealthy RAAD & babur for nuke deterrent they are harder to detect due to their lower radar cross-signature, low-level navigation,and use of waypoints to circumvent more secure and heavily defended areas.


7.Pakistan would seek help from from Beijing for high-altitude and anti-ballistic missile (ABM) defenses through HQ-9/ FD2000 deal


8.Pakistan would target indias BMD Radar through long range anti radiation missile like brazilian MER-1 anti radiation missile

9.Pakistan could pursue hypersonic missile technology if they are ready to afford it.

10.Last but not least Pakistan could 1st strike ,as it fears if india 1st strike then their majority nuke detterent might be destroyed & rest if survive would be destroyed by indias ABM shield

PLEASE NOTE
this are all my personal assumption ,well anyone having any better ideas apart from this can post
REGARDS

It takes 8 minutes to take out Delhi from Western borders of Pakistan.
Good luck with any missile shield.

A better question could be.
How many Indian missiles will the Indian ABM shield take out when launched?

 

[wasileo80]

Just like Pakistan countered Asian Raptor and Rafale despite their tall claims. So have confidence on Men in uniform. They are there for a reason otherwise they could have join PDF and busy posting such threads like us that Pakistan have to purchase Eurofighter or Block 70 or this and that. So countering any IAF's move is always in sight of PAF and they are preparing day in day out for every thing IAF planned, acquired or in planning.

It is not a drama or serial.

Even your best fighter F16 if even cross the border then multiple SAM systems will be facing not alone S400.

First MKI, then Rafale and now S400 to worship. Keep going.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

S 400 is threat for us but we are also going to add high Altitude and long range Air defence system this year. a true ABM shield needs to be inducted,

 

[GumNaam]

chinease are not stupid in fact very smart.
turkey is not stupid
Russia knows how to win wars they have done so for centuries
forget India who let's say wasted 5 billion

trust me they are smarter than pakistanis now that is a fact and if they spend billion s on s400 then they will.have looked at advantages and disadvantages and other options first .
China had option outside of s400.
turkey is NATO any system.it wanted
usa offered India patriot and Israel.arrow system..
India chose s400 and it was not without due diligence.
but you keep.telling yourself it does not work.. it will.calm.your nerves and anxiety

end of the day the s400's score card stands at 0 to 5 with 5 successful american 5 isreali raids with 0 intercepts. as we saw on Feb 27th, if it gets to india, we can expect a negative score card with india shooting down its own aircrafts & missiles. now you can make all the excuses you want.

 

[Super Falcon]

Hypersonic Missile will be game changer for us to counter S 400 BARAK 8 indian aircraft battle group etc

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

end of the day the s400's score card stands at 0 to 5 with 5 successful american 5 isreali raids with 0 intercepts. as we saw on Feb 27th, if it gets to india, we can expect a negative score card with india shooting down its own aircrafts & missiles. now you can make all the excuses you want.

Why you not suggested tk china and asked them to not waste their money..

Better really on only 2nd tyer missile defense system ( cheap copy) and sell to other countries... That missile would be called " Best" In the world.

 

[SQ8]

Why you not suggested tk china and asked them to not waste their money..

Better really on only 2nd tyer missile defense system ( cheap copy) and sell to other countries... That missile would be called " Best" In the world.

The Chinese use it as a token and mostly related to range tests. They did the exact thing they did with the Su-35s; used them to benchmark what they were doing and found they are already ahead. Same with the S-400 although that doesn’t imply they have beaten the Russians in the SAM game.

However , the S-400s poor performance comes down to the operators rather than the system itself. They are still insanely deadly but just as with anything there are system limits.

The S-400 has limitations and weaknesses that Pakistan started working on the moment it was aware of the purchase and has overcome them from a BM perspective(at great expense) . The same goes for PAD and AAD - none of these “countermeasures” are unique to Pakistan and there was help used. Similar to Russian concepts against US BMD measures except the disadvantage any sides BMD has in the subcontinent is the small distance between any potential launch centers and key military targets and population centers.

What it has ensured is that India isn’t safe from nuclear weapons for the foreseeable future unless it invests and successfully creates the Reagan Era bluff of a “Star Wars” system.

India can make statements for its citizens that its safe but they are similar to statements made by any country for the consumption of its population.

Either way, the issue isn’t the use of nuclear weapons because both sides fear it but neutralizing Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal doesn’t require BMD - it requires making its command and control ineffective and/or forcing economic ruin upon it in lieu of socio-political turmoil.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

The Chinese use it as a token and mostly related to range tests. They did the exact thing they did with the Su-35s; used them to benchmark what they were doing and found they are already ahead. Same with the S-400 although that doesn’t imply they have beaten the Russians in the SAM game.

However , the S-400s poor performance comes down to the operators rather than the system itself. They are still insanely deadly but just as with anything there are system limits.

The S-400 has limitations and weaknesses that Pakistan started working on the moment it was aware of the purchase and has overcome them from a BM perspective(at great expense) . The same goes for PAD and AAD - none of these “countermeasures” are unique to Pakistan and there was help used. Similar to Russian concepts against US BMD measures except the disadvantage any sides BMD has in the subcontinent is the small distance between any potential launch centers and key military targets and population centers.

What it has ensured is that India isn’t safe from nuclear weapons for the foreseeable future unless it invests and successfully creates the Reagan Era bluff of a “Star Wars” system.

India can make statements for its citizens that its safe but they are similar to statements made by any country for the consumption of its population.

Either way, the issue isn’t the use of nuclear weapons because both sides fear it but neutralizing Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal doesn’t require BMD - it requires making its command and control ineffective and/or forcing economic ruin upon it in lieu of socio-political turmoil.

For me - AAD and PAD is best way to explain " Something better than nothing ".

These come with a high cost and now, it depends on you whatever want it or does not want it..

Reality is thag Pakistan can not afford such high cost defense equipments due to high cost. so for the counter sake of statement, pak army will always state that we have already planned or ready with "countermeasures"....

As it is expected because no country says that we don't have any countermeasures against the enemy equipment. Also, they always plan against it.

Adding - I am not saying that S400 Or air defense system is 100% foolproof.

But assuming that during the tense border situation, the air traffic will be closed.... Air defense system like S400 with other layer of defense systems starting from the international border.,.. Even it would not be a easy task.

It is not only that Pakistan drones, missiles or rockets will fly and directly going to target the S400 missiles... They have to skip the other missile defense systems as well...

The same way as I understand, India will not going to totally depends on s400... From border itself, Pakistan has to deal with barak 8 and akash missile defense systems.... It is will very challenging for pakistan if India will able to make layer of defense missile systems which is under work in progress

 

[Cookie Monster]

For me - AAD and PAD is best way to explain " Something better than nothing ".

These come with a high cost and now, it depends on you whatever want it or does not want it..

Reality is thag Pakistan can not afford such high cost defense equipments due to high cost. so for the counter sake of statement, pak army will always state that we have already planned or ready with "countermeasures"....

As it is expected because no country says that we don't have any countermeasures against the enemy equipment. Also, they always plan against it.

Adding - I am not saying that S400 Or air defense system is 100% foolproof.

But assuming that during the tense border situation, the air traffic will be closed.... Air defense system like S400 with other layer of defense systems starting from the international border.,.. Even it would not be a easy task.

It is not only that Pakistan drones will fly and directly going to target the S400 missiles... They have to skip the other missile defense systems as well...

The same way as I understand, India will not going to totally depends on s400... From border itself, Pakistan has to deal with barak 8 and akash missile defense systems.... It is will very challenging for pakistan if India will able to make layer of defense missile systems which is under work in progress

While it is true that something is better than nothing but the fact remains...that it is much easier/cheaper/effective to develop offensive options when it comes to ballistic missiles...than defensive options...

This isn't India/Pakistan specific...it applies everywhere...and is even more true specially when the two nations are right next to each other(reducing the time to detect and counter a missile). There are plenty of studies done in the US military regarding cost/benefit analysis and the effectiveness of ABM systems...
...feel free to read those studies and u will see for urself. At the end of the day it just comes down to prioritization...
...do u wanna throw a ton of money developing a fancy system that shoots down 25 of the incoming 100 missiles? If so...what if the enemy just lobbed an extra 25 missiles for a much cheaper price than that fancy ABM system u acquired? What if the enemy developed MIRV or MaRV tech and introduced decoys? SEAD/DEAD abilities? Or in the near future swarms of drones?
...those at the top make that decision based on what they prioritize...
For a India/Pak scenario...since Pak only wants to have MAD in place...it will most likely continue to emphasize an offensive approach(as written above that it's usually cheaper)...nullifying India's defensive options just enough to ensure MAD bcuz for the most part...that's all that matters(as a deterrent).

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

While it is true that something is better than nothing but the fact remains...that it is much easier/cheaper/effective to develop offensive options when it comes to ballistic missiles...than defensive options...

This isn't India/Pakistan specific...it applies everywhere...and is even more true specially when the two nations are right next to each other(reducing the time to detect and counter a missile). There are plenty of studies done in the US military regarding cost/benefit analysis and the effectiveness of ABM systems...
...feel free to read those studies and u will see for urself. At the end of the day it just comes down to prioritization...
...do u wanna throw a ton of money developing a fancy system that shoots down 25 of the incoming 100 missiles? If so...what if the enemy just lobbed an extra 25 missiles for a much cheaper price than that fancy ABM system u acquired? What if the enemy developed MIRV or MaRV tech and introduced decoys? SEAD/DEAD abilities? Or in the near future swarms of drones?
...those at the top make that decision based on what they prioritize...
For a India/Pak scenario...since Pak only wants to have MAD in place...it will most likely continue to emphasize an offensive approach(as written above that it's usually cheaper)...nullifying India's defensive options just enough to ensure MAD bcuz for the most part...that's all that matters(as a deterrent).

Again you are just Referring about one S400 defense system.... But as I said, layer of defense systems...

One defense system can't be enough to defend any city.

Again, if you dont have PAD or AAD than enemy needs only one or two nuclear missiles to destroy.... But if you have effective defense systems than enemy needs to also expense on offensive weapons... Even than, no guarantee that it will be successful as totally depends on tactics, planning, execution and other factors......

A effective layer of defense systems would be always challenging for a enemy country.... It is the reason, most of the countries like USA, China, Russia, India and other few are working continuously on misst defense systems..... Even it is not 100% foolproof..

 

[Cookie Monster]

Again you are just Referring about one S400 defense system.... But as I said, layer of defense systems...

One defense system can't be enough to defend any city.

Again, if you dot have PAD or AAD than enemy needs only one or two nuclear missiles to destroy.... But if you have effective defense systems than enemy needs to also expense on offensive weapons... Even than, no guarantee that it will be successful as totally depends on tactics, planning, execution and other factors......

A effective layer of defense systems would be always challenging for enemy country.... It is the reason, most of the countries like USA, China, Russia, India and other few are working continuously on misst defense systems..... Even it is not 100% foolproof..

I am not talking about just one system...India isn't exactly new in developing layered defense systems...many countries have already done this...which is why I said to read those studies already done on a cost/benefit analysis(the reason those studies were done is bcuz those countries embarked on that path)...
...countries like USA/Russia are not a good analogy for u to use for India/Pak case...US and Russia have huge land masses and are much further apart from each other giving more time for detection(of launch), additionally they have invested in systems that try to maximize this time by detecting the missile launch as early as possible...
...this timing is key to making the best use of any ABM system.

...as for u brushing off S400 as one system...and jumping on to the layered systems argument...S400 is technically a layered system as it is equipped with different types of missiles to engage at various ranges. Ideally u would want all ur ABM systems to be like that, where the network of radars and sensors all paint one cohesive picture of all friendly and hostile assets operating in an environment, track/prioritize target and fire control radar picks out the best solution(missile) to engage the chosen target. In not so ideal situations u r looking at all these "layered" systems not being integrated well...which will have a host of its own problems.