How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[Baibars_1260]

With ew tactics in real world scenario the abm chain would be too late to intercept due to close proximity
Same happened to Saudi patriots batteries in that refinery attack
And to Russian s400 in Syria

The ABM chain also doesn't take into account a coastal attack from a 'Q' Ship or a suicide manned nuclear torpedo. Countries with juxtaposed territories are extremely vulnerable to ground threats. A truck born 20 kt nuclear device detonated on the Wagah border would send contamination as far as Jalandhar. At that point we would not really care what happens to Lahore.
True protection from a nuclear strike is guaranteed not by ABM systems but either by MAD , regime change, or disarmament. If India believes it has security it will be tempted to launch a pre-emptive strike with very tragic results.

 

[Mutakalim]

This is the area ABM capability where Pakistan lack right now.
Until we have credible system to counter and to pose same threat we will remain under threat in this specific scenario.

But, it always happens in case of Pakistan and India.
In one area we get edge in other they get edge.
TIT for TAT

Pakistan doesnt need comprehensive ABM capability. We can not compete with India Missile for Missile or in fact system to system. We just need to insure that our missiles reach the target with minimum interception. That will prove to be enough for ensuring deterrence.

Weapon systems are useless, if not employed in effective manner and if not dovetailed into overall strategic doctrine of the force.

 

[Tumba]

I dont think ABM which is entirely defensive capability that too deployed by a soft power like India should worry any if its adversaries reasons are simple:

* India will never initiate any attack
* India even if forced into war will never initiate Ballistic Missiles and specially the Nuke carrying ones
* India is very defensive in nature you can easily establish this connection by the no. Of strike corps we have basically 3 which has each just around 50k soldiers mountains strike corps are basically defensive corps so cant be counted.

 

[PAR 5]

Pakistan at this stage has no answer for the Indian S-400 ABM that will likely come online in 2021. All Pak Airborne assets including land based missiles are going to be in range of this system.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan at this stage has no answer for the Indian S-400 ABM that will likely come online in 2021. All Pak Airborne assets including land based missiles are going to be in range of this system.

S 400 and all the other Air Defence systems are over rated . This has been proven in every war and conflict in past few years. As for answering it. We have lot of answers including MIRV based ballistic missiles.

 

[PAR 5]

S 400 and all the other Air Defence systems are over rated . This has been proven in every war and conflict in past few years. As for answering it. We have lot of answers including MIRV based ballistic missiles.

I can see the misguided & uninformed over optimism doling in your comment. We have NO ANSWERS. And unless you want to deliver the MIRV's by railways, it can be taken out by the S-400 as soon as the missile carrying it is launched and detected.

 

[Zarvan]

I can see the misguided & uninformed over optimism doling in your comment. We have NO ANSWERS. And unless you want to deliver the MIRV's by railways, it can be taken out by the S-400 as soon as the missile carrying it is launched and detected.

Yes we have no answers now happy. How many of these systems have actually worked in recent conflicts is quite obvious. I don't have to say it entire world has seen it. They have proven to be disaster but yes you feel free to live in a myth created by Russia. Results on ground say other wise.

 

[vizier]

Hypersonic cruise missiles and HGVs are current trends to bypass defenses. However as we all know we need quiet some time like a decade to develop such systems. Anti ship ballistic missiles are used by several countries and they have about 1500-2000 km range and they manuever to bypass ship abms. Maneuvering ballistic missiles are also an option like iskandar or similar systems. Mirv can also be effective. They need to put S400 close to your borders to take out your bms in boost phase which makes S400 vulnurable to be detected by drones,sar-optical-satellites,elint etc. and swarm attacked.


Another option is I think staying at the high supersonic range. That is using supersonic cruise missiles but with some improvements like reducing rcs. There is already developed technology from cold war decades ago which we can improve with some tweaks and using modern electronics so they can be effective today.


For example the D-21 spy drone has a small size and looks very sleek and stealthy. It has mach 3-3.5 speed with a ramjet engine and about 5000km range. It has obvious resembelence to SR-71 and stealth was a consideration that was used on the design of SR-71 which was a spy plane as well.

Air Force Wanted To Turn Skunk Works' Mach 3 Capable Recon Drone Into A Nuclear Bomber

The concept would have given the service a penetrating high-speed strike asset, something it is still interested in to this day.

www.thedrive.com

It was considered as a cruise missile later on but complicated air launch , carrying it over SR-71 and for similar reasons it was discarded or maybe it was not discarded and developed secretly later on.

I think it still has cruise missile potential with some stealth, high speed and long range combination. It can be used for anti shipping as well as ground attack. A scaled down variant of this can be ground launched by rockets to high altitude(about 20km) and gain sufficient speed for ramjet to activate in my opinion with sufficient ranges like 1000-2000km or more.

Ground launch of ramjet cruise missile by rocket assist example is below. It is an intercontinental cruise missile and scale is much higher ofcourse like a space shuttle. A miniature variant of this and with current long range drone technology plus a radar seeker on its nose for anti-shipping it can be used to bypass defenses in my opinion.

Later on we can integrate long range hcms and hgvs but during that period these can be developed-integrated in a much shorter time.

 

[The Maverick]

Yes we have no answers now happy. How many of these systems have actually worked in recent conflicts is quite obvious. I don't have to say it entire world has seen it. They have proven to be disaster but yes you feel free to live in a myth created by Russia. Results on ground say other wise.

so China and Turkey and India paid 5 billion each because,they are stupid right for s400 and Russia spent billions because,they are stupid..
in fact all.sams on land and in ships are useless.
do you have any idea how many billions the likes of Israel are spending to develope s400 type ballistic missle defense shields.

your comment sounds like surrender. we can't compete

 

[GumNaam]

so China and Turkey and India paid 5 billion each because,they are stupid right.

hey...a false sense of security carries a hefty price of its own. having said that, I'm pretty sure China has something different planned for their S400s. what? I don't know...maybe install em on the SCS artificial islands...

 

[The Maverick]

hey...a false sense of security carries a hefty price of its own. having said that, I'm pretty sure China has something different planned for their S400s. what? I don't know...maybe install em on the SCS artificial islands...

chinease are not stupid in fact very smart.
turkey is not stupid
Russia knows how to win wars they have done so for centuries
forget India who let's say wasted 5 billion

trust me they are smarter than pakistanis now that is a fact and if they spend billion s on s400 then they will.have looked at advantages and disadvantages and other options first .
China had option outside of s400.
turkey is NATO any system.it wanted
usa offered India patriot and Israel.arrow system..
India chose s400 and it was not without due diligence.
but you keep.telling yourself it does not work.. it will.calm.your nerves and anxiety

 

[Zarvan]

so China and Turkey and India paid 5 billion each because,they are stupid right for s400 and Russia spent billions because,they are stupid..
in fact all.sams on land and in ships are useless.
do you have any idea how many billions the likes of Israel are spending to develope s400 type ballistic missle defense shields.

your comment sounds like surrender. we can't compete

They are not fully affective. Even Hamas third grade rockets manage to hit targets. Yes some are short down not all of them. Air Defence systems are good but not great. They don't give you full protection not even close.

 

[The Maverick]

They are not fully affective. Even Hamas third grade rockets manage to hit targets. Yes some are short down not all of them. Air Defence systems are good but not great. They don't give you full protection not even close.

tell that to Russia China turkey Israel.usa and the rest of the world that spend billions of dollars on sams radars tracking that Hamas rockets proved they don't work

 

[ssethii]

They are not fully affective. Even Hamas third grade rockets manage to hit targets. Yes some are short down not all of them. Air Defence systems are good but not great. They don't give you full protection not even close.

some protection is always better than no protection. we should worry about our own missile shield as we have zero protection against any type of missiles as of today.

 

[The Maverick]

some protection is always better than no protection. we should worry about our own missile shield as we have zero protection against any type of missiles as of

it's not just interception
it's,the tracking ability
your awacs can be tracked at 400km by s400 and is slow moving target . s400 has a 200km missle with speed mach 15 your awacs will need to stay away from loc
It becomes next to useless in war for fear of being shot down
this,excludes,the threat of being shot down by Rafale meteore or r74 long range bvr on mki .
your air force cannot operate freely on a 200km radius of s400 there is,real danger
s400 was designed to take out f35 Rafale and typhoons of NATO.
what chance do pakistani 50 year old mirage have or 30 year old,f16 have answer far less,chance than usa f35 French Rafale.
why because they are legacy strike platforms.