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How Bias in Text books fuels division in Pakistani society

As I have posted earlier, this is a complex issue, but it is important to note that there is a proper process in place for suggesting, discussing and finally implementing any changes that might be needed from time to time. A curriculum can not be static, so if some deficiencies exist today, they can be removed tomorrow, by following due process. After all, every nation wants its future generations to be able to deal with the challenges of their times.
I agree with you sir,there is no country facing challenges in this regard.Honestly speaking,I haven't read the op,but I will point our bias in form of course offered by different education system.For example,Cambridge and O-levels are offering high quality courses,where as the urdu medium and matriculation ones,with less quality.

The content isn't biased,the quality is!


regards
 
I agree with you sir,there is no country facing challenges in this regard.Honestly speaking,I haven't read the op,but I will point our bias in form of course offered by different education system.For example,Cambridge and O-levels are offering high quality courses,where as the urdu medium and matriculation ones,with less quality.

The content isn't biased,the quality is!


regards

What you refer to, Sir, is a problem of implementation of national policies, which is yet another aspect of this complex issue. For the curriculum, one nation's preferences might be another nation's bias, but sovereign nations have this right to choose what they decide for their future generations, as I have stated in this thread many times already.
 
Zebra7 specifically asked me to shut up but I have to ask....can you list out all the flaws you see in the Pakistan education system, just a list without adding your opinion and also a list of the strengths. I think it would be good to see your point of view. ...sorry zebra7 :happy:
Right now, I shall only talk about the curriculum because the educational system is not just about "hate material " only.
The flaws are not with the entire syllabus but with certain topics or certain paragraphs in our textbooks (Urdu, Pak studies etc).
Generally, the curriculum has more focus on imparting the social, cultural and ethical values in students and very little focus on anti India material. I have no problem with anti India material IMO following is the main flaw:
The phrase "wicked Hindus" being used in some places. Hindus live in Pakistan as well and it hurts them although those words are not common in our books but still they must be removed IMO.

Others are minor ones and do not make much of a negative impact of any sort.
 
I agree with you sir,there is no country facing challenges in this regard.Honestly speaking,I haven't read the op,but I will point our bias in form of course offered by different education system.For example,Cambridge and O-levels are offering high quality courses,where as the urdu medium and matriculation ones,with less quality.

The content isn't biased,the quality is!


regards
Quality of curriculum depends on the institute. There are some bad quality books out there(one in Sindh stated that the human brain weighs 104 kilograms, a mistake of course ) but the reputed institutes even if they teach the matric/inter system always assign high quality books(even oxford ones at primary and middle level).
(Cambridge or desi doesn't matter, e.g lawrance college offers only FSC at college level )---- The teachers of beacon, city, roots etc being able to teach better than the village master is a different thing, which has more to do with our educational system rather than the curriculum. The standard curriculum for board exams has the quality but the educational system meant to enforce that curriculum lacks quality. A small example from personal experience is that the average FSC pass student from a well renowned institute is far better in performing diffrentiation and integeration than an average A level qualified one.
The Cambridge system was introduced for the elite class who pays a lot of money to the suited booted schools/colleges to get their childern "high quality English medium" education, the more the sugar, the more it's sweet. The same way there are many private institutes for matriculation /Intermediate taking a lot of money in the shape of dues and producing excellent results and successful students.
Moreover every province must have a single curriculum (starting from class one) and a well revised one.
 
we have to first establish the fact that there is actually any bias in Pakistani text books, something that the eminent researcher Miss @Akheilos is completely denying to begin with, and she later settled for a year 2011, post which there were supposed to be some course correction in Pakistani text books and no such bias exist now, as per Miss @Akheilos (If I haven't misunderstood her).
As usual you have!

I already established that fact when I said which country isnt?

I showed schools in West do it, private schools do it....but why cry when Pakistan does it - for a clever lad they would see I have agreed that it has happened....just that I wish to question why the selective stomachache?
I gave an example of another country from the west doing it....And again asked a question:
The Jewish story, the Arab story … and a plan by Mr Davies

Not sure why its a shocker for people so much as to highlight it in Pakistan! :tsk:

So do show me your assumption of completely denying? It is not my fault you cant comprehend basic English and I dont even use fancy words coz I know the standard of many of the people here!


As for the last bit no bias exists now- show me where I said that? I said they have revised it.....did I say they made it perfect? Nope coz only a fool like you would like to think something can be perfect :tsk:

So firsts thing first, let us first find out if there is actually any bias in Pakistani text books now, the discussion on the requirement for any course correction may come later. I would request you to be around to check any trolling or personal attack by any member.
Huh? Whose did you appoint as your police? :unsure:

You may just mention if the content of the articles I will be posting from now on are "True" or "False" without giving any explanation, I will take your words for it.
:rofl: Sorry kid, world is not black or white with true and false only...You want a discussion learn to do it properly and professionally not rush things with 1 word answers because that would be building a lie in the long run!

However, you are free to explain further why these articles are "True" or "False" as per your wish and convenience. I hope that would be a fair deal without any confusion or complaint.
Fine....

1 article at a time!

Since you put rules I will put forward my rules: Pick 5 articles you wish to discuss....You already efficiently wasted hrs of my time last time...SO this time I am setting a limit to 5! ANYTHING more will not be entertained!
 
I have answered with regards to this article :
the day you can reply to the 13 I have answered will be the day you have ANY rights to talk on the subject...Until then we all have seen your trolling of throwing articles and not discussing a single word!

Heck you are not even reading what you are posting as it has all the answers for you...Here is 1 example:


So changes have already been made so why is your stomach hurting?:


Same guy who was quoted in 1 of the articles took a U-turn:

But I guess you didnt read my reply as you were so bent in to troll :pop:


They criticised Zia’s education policy for promoting hatred and intolerance.
Zia is the escape goat for failed institutions ...This is a big issue if you would like to know more have a look at what was ALREADY established during Zia's time and how he just followed within the established boundaries: Why blame Zia for every ill in Pakistan?


Dr Parvez Hoodbouy
I already talked about this guy ......Though I hate the guy as per what he writes about but I agree to a certain degree with him when he (in the very article you chose) says:

media was one of the major players openly promoting hatred. It was the media, he went on, that considered the theory that foreign agencies could be behind the massacre of the Ismailis, sparing militant outfits which were proudly claiming the attack.
He is a prof so dont listen to me but at least listen to him!

I also agree with this

“It must be understood if we don’t treat all citizens as equal, Pakistan can never progress or survive peacefully.”
 
The Indian education system, was right, at least it was for the CBSE, ICSE/ISC and the state board in particular, the curriculum of which I followed, when I was a student of 10th standard. I hear, they are trying to make changes there. I dont know how much truth is in it, I will check. But, if the rumours that I hear are correct, then we are going in a wrong direction.

@Sky lord
 
Look at it this way: It has kept the country together for so long. After all, if things were so bad as you say, then the whole country would have collapsed totally. Sure, it has problems, but it is soldiering on, one must admit.
Yes, without the bigotry you'd just be Pakistan, Her Majesty's Dominion of North-West India, the Canada of South Asia. The citizens would be a lot richer but such a country would lack most of the opportunities authorities currently have to rob the country and populace of wealth and prestige.

Yes, but that is not for you or me to decide, it is up to the Pakistanis alone to determine when and how to change the discourse.
Hey, when a Pakistani decides, based on lying propaganda, to kill non-Pakistanis such "discourse" becomes other people's business.
 
Yes, without the bigotry you'd just be Pakistan, Her Majesty's Dominion of North-West India, the Canada of South Asia. The citizens would be a lot richer but such a country would lack most of the opportunities authorities currently have to rob the country and populace of wealth and prestige.

Hey, when a Pakistani decides, based on lying propaganda, to kill non-Pakistanis such "discourse" becomes other people's business.

Whatever choices Pakistan makes for itself, it reaps the benefits and pays the price too. If and when other nations are affected secondarily, then the rules of international geopolitics come into play. Nothing wrong with any of that.
 
Key point is that its not in our nature/ culture/ tradition not even in our CONSTITUTION to preach hate!!
He said it must be noted that hate material taught in schools was against Article 22 of the Constitution.
religion had been strongly promoted through politics and this was dangerous because whoever met a certain set criteria was considered a Muslim while anyone outside that circle was in danger today.
Politicizing and bigotry 2 evil mixed together can be toxic to any society!

“Schools have become factories where children are being churned out with warped mindsets,”
AND this was furthered:

most of the teachers taught religion in class rather than their own subjects.
Now that is not part of the curriculum so you cant really directly blame the system if it is taught but not found in the curriculum!

He said the institutions which taught religion solely should be separated from formal education so that religion had no space in other subjects like science.
That is his opinion he is free to offer and say what he wills!

He said Supreme Court’s decision to revise the curriculum should be taken very seriously.
Why didnt you highlight this? Is SC decision not serious?

Selective highlighting? :pop:

Peter Jacob
1) Who is he?
2) What excerpts? Which textbooks? each province has their own system ....so one needs to be more specific!

highlighting some of the “shameful and intolerant perspectives being drilled into the minds of children”. Those excerpts portrayed non-Muslims as negative, preached open hatred, and declared the Muslims more superior. In some places even eminent figures of other religions were regarded as inferior.
The problem with not providing the source is he could be making a mountain of an ant hill!

Each country has their own standards of tolerance and intolerance...Like in France it is not tolerant of something as innocent as a headscarf or a long skirt but will cry rivers for cartoons offending another religion calling it tolerance for freedom of expression!

So what is the deciding factor for what Peter here is using as a measuring stick? Words such as preached open hatred: how is it not open hatred when you allow bashing of another religion through freedom of expression even after knowing what the outcome would be? - THESE are just examples of hypocrisy and also to question what is tolerant and not and who is to decide?

As for this superior BS....I am under the opinion these were the first that got taken out or at least should be!

most people
Well, until and unless these people are further educated - I have few threads on education and how ignorance shouldnt be tolerated...

He said too many publishers had made it difficult to monitor such issues
Why didnt you highlight this? THIS is an issue!

Amarnath Randhawa said his mathematics teacher would ask him to read Islamiyat in math periods.
This falls under the previously discussed portion of the article:

most of the teachers taught religion in class rather than their own subjects.

said hate material affected mostly those people, who considered themselves to be “nice people”. But these people were the same who believe that Muslims were the most persecuted in the world, and never took into account any reasons as to why non-Muslims would ever form a mob. They would never even think if it was the responsibility of the majority Muslims not to set a trend of violence.
THIS I seriously didnt understand what she meant to highlight!

rote learning
I have mentioned this in too many threads.....

Its possibly the root cause of the whole population not even thinking when voting!

“We have entire generations who only repeat, who cannot think for themselves, whose language skills are poor, and all this suits an authoritarian regime so basically none of this points to any failure by the government,”
This is a problem why didnt you highlight it? I thought this was a discussion!


agreed upon certain basic facts regarding religious discrimination and the violation of the Constitution.
Highlighting this as though it is important!
They agreed but it is not mentioned in the article what those points are...Highlighting it was to......fill in the blanks! So it shows religious discrimination is violation of the constitution! That is good they agreed!

MPA Qamarul Islam Raja the government had made a Publishers’ Regulation Committee which would consider laws for publishers and that no books would be printed without the permission of the textbook board. He said an authority on curriculum was also recently formed to discuss and eliminate hate material from text books.
THIS was a proposed solution and in effect but not deserving a highlighting I see :pop:

How are you supposed to discuss when you are selectively reading and highlighting throwing out the points raised, the issues taken into account and the changes proposed?

IA Rehman said that radicalism had come into the system since the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir.
So its an old thing! Would mean also exists in india! Less to do with the "system" and more to do with.......................answered here:

first religious discrimination must end in society in order to be cleared from textbooks and for this society must pressures the government and State to ensure tolerance.
Correctly said, now the question comes how to end it in society? What steps to take and then what are the ways to throw it out of the textbooks...1 way is to have a single publisher but that would also mean state will monitor/ limit education! Well in 1 way it is cool! But in the other it may lead to bigots getting position and doing BS!
 
Whatever choices Pakistan makes for itself, it reaps the benefits and pays the price too. If and when other nations are affected secondarily, then the rules of international geopolitics come into play. Nothing wrong with any of that.
"then the rules of international geopolitics come into play."

huh.. you make it sound so easy...its a lawless World in reality. You know that, right ?
 
Whatever choices Pakistan makes for itself, it reaps the benefits and pays the price too.
Question is, are Pakistan's choices permanent or can Pakistanis, like other nations, be permitted to discuss and amend them?
 
Question is, are Pakistan's choices permanent or can Pakistanis, like other nations, be permitted to discuss and amend them?

Of course national choices change with time. For example, I have clearly posted in this this thread above, the due process that is in place for suggesting, discussing and implementing any changes deemed to be necessary in the curricula in Pakistan.

"then the rules of international geopolitics come into play."

huh.. you make it sound so easy...its a lawless World in reality. You know that, right ?

Understanding the basic principles in international geopolitics is quite simple.
 
Understanding the basic principles in international geopolitics is quite simple.
Anything that is well documented is simpler. It's in the application of the same where lies the problem.

I always liked this poem of T.S. Elliot.. I will dedicate it to you.
"Between the idea and the reality, Between the motion and the act, falls the shadow."
 
Of course national choices change with time. For example, I have clearly posted in this this thread above, the due process that is in place for suggesting, discussing and implementing any changes deemed to be necessary in the curricula in Pakistan.
Qadri's lawyer says otherwise, that Islamism trumps all and the SC is taking this seriously.
 

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