How America Lost the Skyscraper Race

[Hamartia Antidote]

So US cities will be abandoned and become ghost towns, got it, now I know why US doesn't upgrade their city infrastructures.

Yep, after 1965 big cities became dominated by low skilled workers as the more successful moved out of dense multi-unit city housing to larger single family homes.

The days of building tall skyscrapers came to an end. Only the Sears Tower and the World Trade Center were notable.

 

[beijingwalker]

Yep, after 1965 big cities became dominated by low skilled workers as the successful moved to the suburbs. The days of building tall skyscrapers came to an end. Only the Sears Tower and the World Trade Center were notable.

Good, US is going to become a country of no big cities.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Good, US is going to become a country of no big cities.

That's fine with us...some day you'll figure it out too.

 

[Microsoft]

China has much more cars than US, cars need good roads.

More cars is fine China has 4 people to 1 American. The roads are just fine I drive on them I know from experience.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

More cars is fine China has 4 people to 1 American. The roads are just fine I drive on them I know from experience.

Roads are fine near me too.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Good, US is going to become a country of no big cities.

He's a racist married to Asian woman. Just think of him as the powerless version of Mitch McConnell or Derek Chauvin.

If all the "skilled" are in the suburbs then how come SF, LA and Portland are all expensive as **** in the urban cores with rents exceeding $3000 per month in San Jose and up to $2000 per month in LA?

Meanwhile many suburbs like Victorville in LA are shitholes.

You have lived in the US, so you know. He's super out of touch. Comes with privilege.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

He's a racist married to Asian woman. Just think of him as the powerless version of Mitch McConnell or Derek Chauvin.

Oh LOL! If anybody wants to read the racism pouring from your terrible mind all they have to do is go here and read multiple replies of your words...the funny thing is you came out of an 8 year retirement just to spew your prejudices.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vide...y-have-the-chance.617981/page-7#post-11510029

If all the "skilled" are in the suburbs then how come SF, LA and Portland are all expensive as **** in the urban cores with rents exceeding $3000 per month in San Jose and up to $2000 per month in LA?

Oh let's take a looky...

San Francisco eh? It's less than $100,000. That's very very good for a large US city (maybe even the highest) but certainly no match for a nice suburb.

But let's look at some San Francisco suburbs

Since you are using sub $100,000 San Francisco (a rich area) as a basis let me show you some of the suburbs in my area since the figures are easier for me to lookup.

I'll even use MEDIAN income

Census Bureau's American Community Survey from 2013-17.
Massachusetts City/town Median annual household income
Dover $204,018
Weston $196,651
Wellesley $176,852
Sudbury $170,945
Sherborn $170,872
Carlisle $170,703
Wayland $166,893
Lexington $162,083
Boxford $155,034
Medfield $153,847
Winchester $152,196
Bolton $151,618
Hopkinton $151,357
Westwood $145,799
Stow $144,766
Andover $143,292
Southborough $142,426
Needham $141,690
Cohasset $140,000
Norfolk $139,137
Dunstable $138,700
Westford $138,006
Concord $137,743
West Newbury $135,882
Harvard $134,355
Lincoln $134,211
Newton $133,853
Acton $133,713
Sharon $132,734
Topsfield $131,387
Norwell $128,563
Princeton $128,006
Milton $126,000
Mendon $125,816
Bedford $125,208
Hingham $125,144
North Reading $124,750
Groton $123,918
Duxbury $123,613
Ashland $120,309
Upton $119,392
Littleton $119,177
Holliston $118,933
Wilmington $118,549
Belmont $118,370
Lynnfield $117,706
Medway $115,432
Reading $114,354
Georgetown $113,417
Longmeadow $112,831
Hamilton $112,250
Franklin $111,935
Northborough $111,875
Scituate $111,865
Hanover $111,311
Brookline $111,289
Mansfield $111,141
Marblehead $110,025
Essex $109,327
Walpole $107,956
Middleton $107,727
Westborough $107,604
Wrentham $107,444
Chelmsford $106,432
Natick $106,027
North Andover $105,661
Alford $105,625
Manchester $105,500
Easton $105,380
Swampscott $105,169
Wilbraham $104,491
Lancaster $104,331
Arlington $103,594
Rochester $103,472
Norton $102,869
Sterling $102,500
Holden $101,827
Hopedale $101,761
Pembroke $101,447
Sutton $101,315
Tyngsborough $101,303
Boxborough $101,077
Rutland $100,962
Shrewsbury $100,640
Grafton $100,605
Conway $100,398
Millis $100,230
Westminster $100,071
....I'll stop after close to 100 suburban towns with $100K+ incomes. Can your mind grasp that??

and BTW way way way down the list
Boston $62,021

Do you understand now that your San Francisco/Portland/LA example only shows YOU are out of touch. The typical income in a decent suburb is MUCH higher than a major city...even San Francisco.
Big cities are mostly filled with LOWER INCOME PEOPLE. People in many suburbs are much wealthier. Which is why they are not wasting time building skyscrapers in cities anymore. They are building office parks in the wealthier and more educated suburbs.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Oh LOL! If anybody wants to read the racism pouring from your terrible mind all they have to do is go here and read multiple replies of your words...the funny thing is you came out of an 8 year retirement just to spew your prejudices.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vide...y-have-the-chance.617981/page-7#post-11510029





Oh let's take a looky...

San Francisco eh? It's less than $100,000. That's very very good for a large US city (maybe even the highest) but certainly no match for a nice suburb.
View attachment 644719

But let's look at some San Francisco suburbs

View attachment 644720

View attachment 644722
View attachment 644727
View attachment 644724


View attachment 644726
View attachment 644728
View attachment 644729
View attachment 644730
View attachment 644731
View attachment 644732

Since you are using sub $100,000 San Francisco (a rich area) as a basis let me show you some of the suburbs in my area since the figures are easier for me to lookup.

I'll even use MEDIAN income

Census Bureau's American Community Survey from 2013-17.
Massachusetts City/town Median annual household income
Dover $204,018
Weston $196,651
Wellesley $176,852
Sudbury $170,945
Sherborn $170,872
Carlisle $170,703
Wayland $166,893
Lexington $162,083
Boxford $155,034
Medfield $153,847
Winchester $152,196
Bolton $151,618
Hopkinton $151,357
Westwood $145,799
Stow $144,766
Andover $143,292
Southborough $142,426
Needham $141,690
Cohasset $140,000
Norfolk $139,137
Dunstable $138,700
Westford $138,006
Concord $137,743
West Newbury $135,882
Harvard $134,355
Lincoln $134,211
Newton $133,853
Acton $133,713
Sharon $132,734
Topsfield $131,387
Norwell $128,563
Princeton $128,006
Milton $126,000
Mendon $125,816
Bedford $125,208
Hingham $125,144
North Reading $124,750
Groton $123,918
Duxbury $123,613
Ashland $120,309
Upton $119,392
Littleton $119,177
Holliston $118,933
Wilmington $118,549
Belmont $118,370
Lynnfield $117,706
Medway $115,432
Reading $114,354
Georgetown $113,417
Longmeadow $112,831
Hamilton $112,250
Franklin $111,935
Northborough $111,875
Scituate $111,865
Hanover $111,311
Brookline $111,289
Mansfield $111,141
Marblehead $110,025
Essex $109,327
Walpole $107,956
Middleton $107,727
Westborough $107,604
Wrentham $107,444
Chelmsford $106,432
Natick $106,027
North Andover $105,661
Alford $105,625
Manchester $105,500
Easton $105,380
Swampscott $105,169
Wilbraham $104,491
Lancaster $104,331
Arlington $103,594
Rochester $103,472
Norton $102,869
Sterling $102,500
Holden $101,827
Hopedale $101,761
Pembroke $101,447
Sutton $101,315
Tyngsborough $101,303
Boxborough $101,077
Rutland $100,962
Shrewsbury $100,640
Grafton $100,605
Conway $100,398
Millis $100,230
Westminster $100,071
....I'll stop after close to 100 suburban towns with $100K+ incomes. Can your mind grasp that??

and BTW way way way down the list
Boston $62,021


View attachment 644768
View attachment 644763
View attachment 644767

View attachment 644764



Do you understand now that your San Francisco/Portland/LA example only shows YOU are out of touch. The typical income in a decent suburb is MUCH higher than a major city...even San Francisco.
Big cities are mostly filled with LOWER INCOME PEOPLE.

Damn you triggered AF.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Damn you triggered AF.

Ha! Now you feel stupid when facts are thrown at you. Next time don't comment on things you know nothing about

You know what happens in one of those 100 towns where your typical neighbor makes over $100,000? You can leave your house doors unlocked. You leave your garage doors open all night. Your kids leave their bikes outside on the sidewalk all night. You leave an expensive convertible car with the top down and the keys on the dash. Your mailbox is on the edge of the road for anybody to steal...but it never happens. You have over $1000 in grill equipment in your unfenced backyard. You have a shed with a bunch of expensive stuff in it with no lock.

 

[beijingwalker]

Oh LOL! If anybody wants to read the racism pouring from your terrible mind all they have to do is go here and read multiple replies of your words...the funny thing is you came out of an 8 year retirement just to spew your prejudices.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vide...y-have-the-chance.617981/page-7#post-11510029





Oh let's take a looky...

San Francisco eh? It's less than $100,000. That's very very good for a large US city (maybe even the highest) but certainly no match for a nice suburb.
View attachment 644719

But let's look at some San Francisco suburbs

View attachment 644720

View attachment 644722
View attachment 644727
View attachment 644724


View attachment 644726
View attachment 644728
View attachment 644729
View attachment 644730
View attachment 644731
View attachment 644732

Since you are using sub $100,000 San Francisco (a rich area) as a basis let me show you some of the suburbs in my area since the figures are easier for me to lookup.

I'll even use MEDIAN income

Census Bureau's American Community Survey from 2013-17.
Massachusetts City/town Median annual household income
Dover $204,018
Weston $196,651
Wellesley $176,852
Sudbury $170,945
Sherborn $170,872
Carlisle $170,703
Wayland $166,893
Lexington $162,083
Boxford $155,034
Medfield $153,847
Winchester $152,196
Bolton $151,618
Hopkinton $151,357
Westwood $145,799
Stow $144,766
Andover $143,292
Southborough $142,426
Needham $141,690
Cohasset $140,000
Norfolk $139,137
Dunstable $138,700
Westford $138,006
Concord $137,743
West Newbury $135,882
Harvard $134,355
Lincoln $134,211
Newton $133,853
Acton $133,713
Sharon $132,734
Topsfield $131,387
Norwell $128,563
Princeton $128,006
Milton $126,000
Mendon $125,816
Bedford $125,208
Hingham $125,144
North Reading $124,750
Groton $123,918
Duxbury $123,613
Ashland $120,309
Upton $119,392
Littleton $119,177
Holliston $118,933
Wilmington $118,549
Belmont $118,370
Lynnfield $117,706
Medway $115,432
Reading $114,354
Georgetown $113,417
Longmeadow $112,831
Hamilton $112,250
Franklin $111,935
Northborough $111,875
Scituate $111,865
Hanover $111,311
Brookline $111,289
Mansfield $111,141
Marblehead $110,025
Essex $109,327
Walpole $107,956
Middleton $107,727
Westborough $107,604
Wrentham $107,444
Chelmsford $106,432
Natick $106,027
North Andover $105,661
Alford $105,625
Manchester $105,500
Easton $105,380
Swampscott $105,169
Wilbraham $104,491
Lancaster $104,331
Arlington $103,594
Rochester $103,472
Norton $102,869
Sterling $102,500
Holden $101,827
Hopedale $101,761
Pembroke $101,447
Sutton $101,315
Tyngsborough $101,303
Boxborough $101,077
Rutland $100,962
Shrewsbury $100,640
Grafton $100,605
Conway $100,398
Millis $100,230
Westminster $100,071
....I'll stop after close to 100 suburban towns with $100K+ incomes. Can your mind grasp that??

and BTW way way way down the list
Boston $62,021


View attachment 644768
View attachment 644763
View attachment 644767

View attachment 644764



Do you understand now that your San Francisco/Portland/LA example only shows YOU are out of touch. The typical income in a decent suburb is MUCH higher than a major city...even San Francisco.
Big cities are mostly filled with LOWER INCOME PEOPLE. People in many suburbs are much wealthier. Which is why they are not wasting time building skyscrapers in cities anymore. They are building office parks in the wealthier and more educated suburbs.

The problem is that even it seems that Americans make a lot of money but they have pay more, that's why most Americans are actually in debt and have little savings, while in China extremely few people live in debt and everyone has decent savings, it's not about how much you make, it's about how much you can save after paying all the bills.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

The problem is that even it seems that Americans make a lot of money but they have pay more, that's why most Americans are actually in debt and have little savings, while in China extremely few people live in debt and everyone has decent savings, it's not about how much you make, it's about how much you can save after paying all the bills.

People tend to live an expensive lifestyle that they don't need to if push came to shove.

There are over 5 million private in-ground swimming pools (not the above ground swimming pools you buy in the store).
There are over 11 million private registered boats in the US (not tiny kayaks)
There are over 200,000 private aircraft.
There are 10,000 private helicopters.
We spend almost $100 Billion keeping our grass nice.
We spend $95 Billion keeping pets happy.
We spend $100 Billion on cable tv/streaming services.
We spend over $50 Billion on sporting events.
..etc

 

[beijingwalker]

People tend to live an expensive lifestyle that they don't need to if push came to shove.

There are over 5 million private in-ground swimming pools (not the above ground swimming pools you buy in the store).
We spend almost $100 Billion keeping our grass nice.
We spend $95 Billion keeping pets happy.
We spend $100 Billion on cable tv/streaming services.
We spend over $50 Billion on sporting events.
..etc

Some 40% of Americans would struggle to come up with even $400 to pay for an unexpected bill.

If — or, more likely, when — they’re confronted with such an expense, they’d probably have to sell something or go into debt. The now oft-cited figure comes from the Federal Reserve’s 2018 Survey of Household Economics and Decision Making, in which some 12,000 households were asked about their financial well-being.

People tend to live an expensive lifestyle that they don't need to if push came to shove.

There are over 5 million private in-ground swimming pools (not the above ground swimming pools you buy in the store).
We spend almost $100 Billion keeping our grass nice.
We spend $95 Billion keeping pets happy.
We spend $100 Billion on cable tv/streaming services.
We spend over $50 Billion on sporting events.
..etc

So it seems that Chinese people live in a sustainable life while Americans don't.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Some 40% of Americans would struggle to come up with even $400 to pay for an unexpected bill.

If — or, more likely, when — they’re confronted with such an expense, they’d probably have to sell something or go into debt. The now oft-cited figure comes from the Federal Reserve’s 2018 Survey of Household Economics and Decision Making, in which some 12,000 households were asked about their financial well-being.

So it seems that Chinese people live in a sustainable life while Americans don't.

That's because you guys are where our great-grandparents were 120 years ago. Moving out of poverty and into a decent standard of living. They didn't have an expensive lifestyle back then either.

 

[jamahir]

China has much more cars than US

More cars and high rises / skyscrapers does not automatically mean progress. In fact the opposite. A well planned city should spread horizontally, not vertically. About transport, a well planned transport system should consist of mass transit systems like buses and then the occasional taxi. Privately-owned personal transport like cars are obsolete. I have read that when Uber came out the company promised the end of privately-owned cars.

India and China have found new middle class affluence, however artificial it is. The area I live in here in India is not well-planned at all. 30 feet x 40 feet houses built very near each other and very close to the road. In the situation of earthquake my type of area will have many casualties because escape from the falling buildings will be difficult. I believe this is what happened in the Nepal earthquake of 2015.

Residential areas and even commercial areas should be like those in the vid below.

Beautiful.

 

[beijingwalker]

A well planned city should spread horizontally, not vertically. About transport, a well planned transport system should consist of mass transit systems like buses and then the occasional taxi. Privately-owned personal transport like cars are obsolete. I have read that when Uber came out the company promised the end of privately-owned cars.

Exactly, a well planned city should have public and transport facilities to serve the people, buses, subways, light rail commute trains..which US cities don't have many. US cities are not well planned as Chinese cities. but anyway, this thread is about skyscrapers, not city planning.