Hitler's barbaric policies let to the formation of Israel

[airmarshal]

I have watched it.

I suggest not to rely too much on biased reporting.

hahaha

Thats very foolish of you.

You are assuming your original post on totally biased perception of Israel. I m giving a counter argument. That is not bias. Its another side of same story.

How can you refute Sykes-Picot and Balfour declaration? Those were Israel specific agreements if you read them. Thats not even bias. Thats stating the facts.

 

[al-Hasani]

Still, 1st through 4th Aliyah brought in only some 170,000 jews into Palestine, versus 1 million during the 5th (1930-1948). The first three years of Israel saw an influx of over 600,000 jews in the aftermath of WW2 from Europe, doubling the population of the fledgling new state. That is 1,6 million due to Hitler and friends versus 170,000 before that

Yes, and do you know the population of Palestine in 1922? PERCENTAGE wise as this is all that matters. Not only pure numbers. As I said there is no reason to believe that constant Jewish migrations into Palestine would not have continued as it was a CONSTANT process from mainly 1882 until 1939!

hitler's fanboyz will not understand this Pengi Ji.

Why the trolling?

@Desert Fox

 

[FaujHistorian]

Thats very foolish of you.

You are assuming your original post on totally biased perception of Israel. I m giving a counter argument. That is not bias. Its another side of same story.

How can you refute Sykes-Picot and Balfour declaration? Those were Israel specific agreements if you read them. Thats not even bias. Thats stating the facts.

OBL made declarations too

Go check out the fate of those declarations,

you may have to get scuba gear though!


Declarations come, declarations go.
Countries are made, countries die
Conspiracy theories always are alive.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

It was Churchill cobblers son who
MADE ISRAHEL MAY HE ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY INSHALLAH AMEEN

History has been very nice to Churchill, but then again, he wrote it himself .

 

[Penguin]

Popular myth that has been peddled since the creation of Israel is that Palestinians were ejected out of Palestine due to war of 1948.

Israeli author Ilan Pappe shreds this myth by indicating that in fact it was the removal of Palestinians that was the objective of Jews and war was the consequence of that. According to him this was the culmination of a plot written in 1880.

The work started during The Great Rebillion (1917), right about the same time when Balfour declaration was passed. "The only way is to cut and eradicate from the root the Arabs. Not a single village or a single tribe must be left"; said Joseph Weitz, incharge of colonisation and settlement. A database was created about the whole population of Palestine: Maps, photos, names, ages of the men from 16 to 50, sociopolitical composition, best means of attack, index of hostility towards zionists, etc. Jews compiled all this masquerading like a casual visitors to the Arab villagers.

After that there was the wait for 'an opportune moment' to expel the Arabs by ethnic cleansing and terror raids. And that opportune moment was the Holocaust by Nazis.

So, this ideology is totally wrong that it was Hitler's policies that led to formation of Israel; all the groundwork was already completed. Hitler only provided a trigger. Had Hitler not done this, a false flag could have been created to create the state of Israel.

The 1948 Arab–Israeli War or the First Arab–Israeli War was fought between the State of Israel and a military coalition of Arab states and Palestinian Arab forces. This war formed the second stage of the 1948 Palestine War known in Arabic as al-Nakba ("The Catastrophe") and in Hebrew as the Milkhemet Ha'atzma'ut ("War of Independence") or Milkhemet Hashikhrur ("War of Liberation").

There had been tension and conflict between the Arabs and the Jews, and between each of them and the British forces, ever since the 1917 Balfour and the 1920 creation of the British Mandatge of Palestine. British policies dissatisfied both Arabs and Jews. The Arabs' opposition developed into the 1936-39 Arab revolt in Palestine. The Jewish resistance developed into the Jewish insurgency in Palestine (1944–1947), These ongoing tensions erupted on 30 November 1947 into CIVIL WAR between the Arab and Jewish populations in response to the UN Partition PLan to divide Palestine into three areas: an Arab state, a Jewish state and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem.

On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states when a combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, entered Palestine.The conflict triggered important demographic changes in the area and through the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled and/or were expelled from the area that became Israel and they became refugees. In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with one third of them having fled or been expelled , from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.

 

[Penguin]

Yes, and do you know the population of Palestine in 1922? PERCENTAGE wise as this is all that matters. Not only pure numbers. As I said there is no reason to believe that constant Jewish migrations into Palestine would not have continued as it was a CONSTANT process from mainly 1882 until 1939!

1882-1929: 170000 / 47 = about 3500 per year, assuming a constant flow.
1930-1948: 1000000 / 18 = about 50000 per year (nazi's came to power in 1933 and prosecution of started)

The 1922 census of Palestine was the first carried out by the Brits. The reported population in 1922 was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, and some 1400 others

In 1931 he total population reported was 1,035,821 (1,033,314 excluding the numbers of H.M. forces ) – an increase of 36.8% since 1922, of which the Jewish population increased by 108.4%. The population was divided by religion as follows: 759,717 Muslims, 174,610 Jews, 91,398 Christians, 9,148 Druzes, and some 950 other.

This suggests in 9 years some 95000 additional jews = about 10000 per year growth, including from but not limited to immigration (think procreation)

You were saying?

Population of Israel/Palestine (1553-Present) | Jewish Virtual Library

 

[al-Hasani]

1882-1929: 170000 / 47 = about 3500 per year
1930-1948: 1000000 / 18 = about 50000 per year (nazi's came to power in 1933 and prosecution of started)

The 1922 census of Palestine was the first carried out by the Brits. The reported population in 1922 was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, and some 1400 others

In 1931 he total population reported was 1,035,821 (1,033,314 excluding the numbers of H.M. forces ) – an increase of 36.8% since 1922, of which the Jewish population increased by 108.4%. The population was divided by religion as follows: 759,717 Muslims, 174,610 Jews, 91,398 Christians, 9,148 Druzes, and some 950 other.

This suggests in 9 years some 95000 additional jews = about 10000 per year growth, including from but not limited to immigration)

You were saying?

Population of Israel/Palestine (1553-Present) | Jewish Virtual Library

I was not talking about the yearly numbers of migrants but rather the percentage of those Jewish migrants of the total population by 1939 after almost 60 years of constant migration.

Those demographics changed DRASTICALLY and nothing tells me that they would have stopped would WW2 not have occurred. I am yet to see a single argument point to the opposite being the case. Which is the central thing about this thread as the OP claims that Israel would not have existed if it was not for WW2 and Hitler.

The consensus in 1939 (if one exists) would be more interesting than the one in 1922. You can also see that by 1945 the Jews number 50% of the population.

No need to fool oneself here just to defend everything Israel and Jews do because you fear being called an "Anti-Semite".

 

[user1]

The 1948 Arab–Israeli War or the First Arab–Israeli War was fought between the State of Israel and a military coalition of Arab states and Palestinian Arab forces. This war formed the second stage of the 1948 Palestine War known in Arabic as al-Nakba ("The Catastrophe") and in Hebrew as the Milkhemet Ha'atzma'ut ("War of Independence") or Milkhemet Hashikhrur ("War of Liberation").

There had been tension and conflict between the Arabs and the Jews, and between each of them and the British forces, ever since the 1917 Balfour and the 1920 creation of the British Mandatge of Palestine. British policies dissatisfied both Arabs and Jews. The Arabs' opposition developed into the 1936-39 Arab revolt in Palestine. The Jewish resistance developed into the Jewish insurgency in Palestine (1944–1947), These ongoing tensions erupted on 30 November 1947 into CIVIL WAR between the Arab and Jewish populations in response to the UN Partition PLan to divide Palestine into three areas: an Arab state, a Jewish state and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem.

On 15 May 1948 the ongoing civil war transformed into an inter-state conflict between Israel and the Arab states when a combined invasion by Egypt, Jordan and Syria, together with expeditionary forces from Iraq, entered Palestine.The conflict triggered important demographic changes in the area and through the Middle East. Around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled and/or were expelled from the area that became Israel and they became refugees. In the three years following the war, about 700,000 Jews immigrated to Israel with one third of them having fled or been expelled , from their previous countries of residence in the Middle East.

I think that here we are just quoting different versions of history; so, the only objective way to find out the facts is to look at the pointer present at that time which could serve as telltale signs of what was about to come.

• For example, the creation of world zionist organisation with an explicit agenda of the formation of Israel.
• Migration of Zionists to Palestine and buying up huge swathes of land.
• Balfour Declaration.
• Rantings of the Zionist leaders at that time, talking about greater israel.
• Accumulation of Arms and formation of Jewish terrorist organizations, etc.

All of the above indicate what was the real plan of the zionists.

According to what I have read, immediately after the creation of 2 states, in Nov. 1947, Jews started acting on their agenda of ethnic cleansing; that was in the presence of British Army which did not stop them. By May 15 1948 - when British forces pulled out and Arab armies entered Palestine - they had accomplished most of the ethnic cleansing.

 

[Penguin]

I was not talking about the yearly numbers of migrants but rather the percentage of those Jewish migrants of the total population by 1939 after almost 60 years of constant migration.

Those demographics changed DRASTICALLY and nothing tells me that they would have stopped would WW2 not have occurred. I am yet to see a single argument point to the opposite being the case. Which is the central thing about this thread as the OP claims that Israel would not have existed if it was not for WW2 and Hitler.

The consensus in 1939 (if one exists) would be more interesting than the one in 1922. You can also see that by 1945 the Jews number 50% of the population.

No need to fool oneself here just to defend everything Israel and Jews do because you fear being called an "Anti-Semite".

The influx of Jews from Europe increased dramatically with the rise of Nazism and in the after WW2. In the absense of Nazism and WW2, there would still be a changing demographic. I don't know why you seem to think (still, after repeated explanation to the contrary) that I am saying that there wouldn't. However, such change would have proceeded differently, both quantitatively and qualitatively. Japan might not have turned on the US. We might have had a very different relationship with the USSR. Both Russia and the US might have developed more slowly to superpowers. The UK might not have lost its grip on its empire as quickly. There would not have been a UN for example. All factors that would have been of significant influence. It is narrow to just look at population statistics.

 

[Desert Fox]

His role as a statesman before WW2 includes occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia,
and participation in the Spanish Civil War through the Condor Legion.

Do you praise Luftwaffes attack on Guernica?
Do you praise the Kristallnacht?
Do you praise the racial laws of the Third Reich?

All happened before WW2.

Even though i am on A.P. Richelieu's ignore list i will address the fallacious points he brought up just for the benefit of others:

His role as a statesman before WW2 includes occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia,

1). Austria was German and a great majority of Austrians voted to be a part of Germany, which is why the League of Nations did not interfere in an attempt to prevent the Austro-German union. There was a 99% approval amongst the Austrian population under a plebiscite held by the Dollfuss-Schuschnigg regime which mind you was an anti-Hitler gov.t.

2). Hitler's annexation of Czechoslovakia was in two parts:

1. When he annexed the Sudetenland which was historically a part of Germany pre-WW1 and Versailles treaty
and thus he was justified in retaking it.

2. When the Czech gov.t of Emil Hacha (Benes' successor) requested Hitler to annex the rest of the Czech
territory after what remained once the Poles invaded from the north to claim their portion of Czechoslovakia, and the Hungarians invaded from the south to claim theirs.

​

Basically Czechoslovakia was a artificial state bound to be dismembered because its ethnic minorities (the Sudeten Germans, the Poles, the Hungarians, and the Slovaks) wanted to be a part of of their own respective countries of Germany, Hungary, and Poland while the Slovaks wanted an independent nation.

​

and participation in the Spanish Civil War through the Condor Legion.

He did so at the request of Franco and also due to the threat of Communism spreading into Western Europe which was a fear shared by every European, not just Hitler. Why else do you think NATO was established after WW2?? Because anyone with a brain understood the threat posed by Communism which had an internationalist agenda.

Do you praise Luftwaffes attack on Guernica?

Do you support the allied bombing of Dresden? Or what about the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki??
Do you support Churchill's starvation of indians during the Bengal Famine?

Do you praise the Kristallnacht?

That was the German publics reaction to the assassination of the German ambassador in France at the hands of the Jewish Communist Herschel Grynszpan. The German gov.t did not condone their actions and tried to control the attacks on Jewish businesses. The Americans reacted in a similar manner towards the Japanese Americans during the aftermath of the pearl Harbor attack.

Do you praise the racial laws of the Third Reich?

The racial laws in Germany were no different from the racial laws in America during the early to mid 20th century.

And secondly, Britain was subjugating and looting more than 500,000,000 racially diverse people worldwide in its colonial empire, and so was France.

What do you think of israel's racial laws??

Israeli Kristallnacht: Africans attacked in Tel Aviv anti-migrant demo (PHOTOS)

Planned Israeli Detention Camps for Africans Draw Human Rights Protests

Israel Erects Concentration Camps To House African migrants- The Washington post

Eritrean president says countrymen living in 'concentration camps' in Israel- Haaretz

Concentration Camp for African migrants in Israel's south to hold up to 30,000 people- Haaretz

All happened before WW2.

Well, guess what? Palestine is being occupied by Zionist Jews and the native Palestinians have been displaced, and that's happening AFTER WW2 with the full backing of the West. What does that tell you??

@al-Hasani @Hazzy997

 

[Desert Fox]

I agree Hitler was good at getting people to follow him i.e very charismatic, convincing, intimidating. It was not possible for him to do what he did without this leadership ability ..off course on negative side he was racist, mass murdered and cruel leader who wanted to get rid of anyone that was not Aryan. That includes jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists etc

That's not true in fact. There were more than 150,000 full half Jews, and Quarter Jews in Hitler's armies serving as Generals, Admirals, and infantrymen.


Among the 150,000 Jews who served in Hitler's Armies:

"half-Jew" Anton Mayer

"Half-Jew" and later Luftwaffe General Helmut Wilberg

"Half-Jew" and field-marshal Erhard Milch (left) with General Wolfram von Richthofen.



Chinese (im assuming Buddhist) soldiers in German Army:

 

[invinciblesgunner]

And israels barbaric policies will be its own destruction, what comes around goes around..

 

[Developereo]

Hitler's barbaric policies led to the formation of Israel

Factually incorrect.

The primary backers of Israel (Britain, US and France) were supporting Israel long before Hitler did anything.

Britain's support for Israel had zip all to do with Hitler.

The whole Holocaust sympathy card was a secondary campaign by the Zionist bigots to frame their racist superiority crap as a "Jewish" cause, and to hijack world sympathy.

There are notable Holocaust survivors who are scathingly critical of the Zionists' hijacking of the Holocaust sympathy for their own racist agenda. This is especially frustrating for the Zionists because they can't use their standard "anti-Semitism" card to stifle most criticism of Israel.

 

[Desert Fox]

And let's not forget: poles, ukrainians, russians and other 'slavic' peoples in general, roma/gypsies in particular, any political opponents (including, but not limited to: anarchists, communists, socialists, social democrats), catholics, protestants, jehova's witnesses, freemasons, homosexual men, the mentally or physically disabled, people with learning disabilities, even esperantists (speakers of the international auxiliary language of Esperanto).

I think Stalin and his predecessor Lenin, as well as other Bolshevik Comrades themselves were doing a really good job in mass murdering their own people, so much so that when Germany invaded USSR in 1941, and through out the entire duration of the war more than 1,000,000 Russians and other Slavics including Red Army POW's fought alongside the Wehrmacht and even Waffen SS (the largest defection in military history).


Stalin and Bolsheviks killing their own people:

Lazar Kaganovich, the Jewish Communist in charge of implementing Stalin's Forced Collectivization in the Ukraine

 

[Desert Fox]

And let's not forget: poles, ukrainians, russians and other 'slavic' peoples in general,

Yeah, lets not forget the 25,000 Polish officers, intellectuals, and aristocrats that Stalin's NKVD liquidated in the Katyn Forest shall we:

"In 1943 the Nazis exhumed the Polish dead and blamed the Soviets. In 1944, having retaken the Katyn area from the Nazis, the Soviets exhumed the Polish dead again and blamed the Nazis. The rest of the world took its usual sides in such arguments.

In 1989, with the collapse of Soviet Power, Premier Gorbachev finally admitted that the Soviet NKVD had executed the Poles, and confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyn. Stalin's order of March 1940 to execute by shooting some 25,700 Poles, including those found at the three sites, was also disclosed with the collapse of Soviet Power. This particular second world war slaughter of Poles is often referred to as the "Katyn Massacre" or the "Katyn Forest Massacre"."

Katyn Forest Massacre

@al-Hasani @Hazzy997 This video is of interest


Poles (Slavs) in German POW camp in Bavaria:

Swimming pool:

Polish POW's standing outside the camp after it was liberated by Americans (they live to tell their stories, unlike the Poles in the Katyn Forest):

Photos Look Inside Nazi Prisoner of War Camp for Polish Officers - SPIEGEL ONLINE