Hitler's barbaric policies let to the formation of Israel

[FaujHistorian]

I do not praise Hitler "or behave like him". Where do you see that? Come on.

Of course not. Anyway just so you know then there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the real number of casualties during the Holocaust.

Don't forget that the victors tend to write the history.



What are you not so sure about? That wide-scale Jewish migrations occurred before Hitler was born and when he was still very unknown?

I honestly suggest that you do some research. Start here below:

Aliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look how the demographics in Jerusalem changed rapidly out of a sudden starting from the 1880's and what caused that.

Hitler represented anti-Semitic mentality of some in Europe.

Don't praise him or hold him in high respect.

 

[al-Hasani]

Hitler represented anti-Semitic mentality of some in Europe.

Don't praise him or hold him in high respect.

Why is it that you assume that I do that? Are you able to distinguish between the good and bad sides of all people? Do you understand that people such as OBL for instance had good sides if you study his life and his actions too?

Hitler's good sides were his leadership skills, his ability to rally people under 1 cause and his role as a statesman PRIOR to WW2. I can praise that without a problem. That does not make me a Nazi. Many historians have done so themselves.

Learn to distinguish between Holocaust and other parts of his life and career. It can't be that hard bro.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Why is it that you assume that I do that? Are you able to distinguish between the good and bad sides of all people? Do you understand that people such as OBL for instance had good sides if you study his life and his actions too?

Hitler's good sides were his leadership skills, his ability to rally people under 1 cause and his role as a statesman PRIOR to WW2. I can praise that without a problem. That does not make me a Nazi. Many historians have done so themselves.

Learn to distinguish between Holocaust and other parts of his life and career. It can't be that hard bro.

His role as a statesman before WW2 includes occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia,
and participation in the Spanish Civil War through the Condor Legion.

Do you praise Luftwaffes attack on Guernica?
Do you praise the Kristallnacht?
Do you praise the racial laws of the Third Reich?

All happened before WW2.

 

[al-Hasani]

His role as a statesman before WW2 includes occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia,
and participation in the Spanish Civil War through the Condor Legion.

Do you praise Luftwaffes attack on Guernica?
Do you praise the Kristallnacht?
Do you praise the racial laws of the Third Reich?

All happened before WW2.

What have those events to do with the scientific, technological, economic and military progress that I have SOLELY praised when it comes to Nazi Germany and Hitler aside from his ability to rally a whole people around 1 common goal?

Do you understand that those examples have nothing to do with the above?

Regarding the Spanish Civil War then I would have supported Franco had I lived in Spain in the 1930's as I do not like communism but that has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

What have those events to do with the scientific, technological, economic and military progress that I have SOLELY praised when it comes to Nazi Germany and Hitler aside from his ability to rally a whole people around 1 common goal?

Do you understand that those examples have nothing to do with the above?

Regarding the Spanish Civil War then I would have supported Franco had I lived in Spain in the 1930's as I do not like communism but that has nothing to do with the discussion.

Yes, but they certainly are related to his role as a statesman.

 

[qamar1990]

So many threads on praising Hitler.

Reality?

Hitler's barbaric policies let to the formation of Israel

And anyone praising Hitler will unintentionally make Israel stronger and more determined.


Strange. Isn't it?

what i don't get is , how on earth these europeans are allowed to even be in israel….
its quite clear just by looking at them that they don't belong in the middle east…
they need to go back to where they came from….that is europe, africa, india and china..

these people believe its their "god-given" right to have this land… and they seem to find new excuse every day to attack and kill the original inhabitants..
any body supporting this country that was founded on complete falsehood can't be in the right state of mind..

 

[al-Hasani]

Yes, but they certainly are related to his role as a statesman.

Yes, OVERALL but not those specific areas that I have highlighted. Hence why I have never praised those other parts of his personality.
One can praise OBL's big humanitarian donations in Afghanistan, Sudan (that the West praised themselves) etc. without endorsing the 9/11 attack. One can also endorse his decision to leave comfort and immense richness and leave for impoverished and war-thorn Afghanistan to help fellow Muslims against the Soviet onslaught. Once again without endorsing his later actions.

@Desert Fox

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Why is it that you assume that I do that? Are you able to distinguish between the good and bad sides of all people? Do you understand that people such as OBL for instance had good sides if you study his life and his actions too?

Hitler's good sides were his leadership skills, his ability to rally people under 1 cause and his role as a statesman PRIOR to WW2. I can praise that without a problem. That does not make me a Nazi. Many historians have done so themselves.

Learn to distinguish between Holocaust and other parts of his life and career. It can't be that hard bro.

I agree Hitler was good at getting people to follow him i.e very charismatic, convincing, intimidating. It was not possible for him to do what he did without this leadership ability ..off course on negative side he was racist, mass murdered and cruel leader who wanted to get rid of anyone that was not Aryan. That includes jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists etc

 

[Patriots]

So many threads on praising Hitler.

Reality?

Hitler's barbaric policies let to the formation of Israel

And anyone praising Hitler will unintentionally make Israel stronger and more determined.


Strange. Isn't it?

This was the dream of Christian & Jews for long ... Hitler was not in the era of crusaders ............

 

[Penguin]

I do not praise Hitler "or behave like him". Where do you see that? Come on.

Of course not. Anyway just so you know then there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the real number of casualties during the Holocaust.

Don't forget that the victors tend to write the history.



What are you not so sure about? That wide-scale Jewish migrations occurred before Hitler was born and when he was still very unknown?

I honestly suggest that you do some research. Start here below:

Aliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look how the demographics in Jerusalem changed rapidly out of a sudden starting from the 1880's and what caused that.

No, that those migrations would have led to the State of Israel coming into being in 1948, absent a Hitler and a WW2. From the graph I posted you you can tell a little surge in immigration into Palestine as per the start of WW2 and a big one per the 1950 (just after the formation of Israel), which are the folks coming out of the War. I think you have been missing my point, which concerns momentum and reaching a critical mass of support.

Jerusalem: Jewish, Muslim, and Christian Population (1910-2005)

Palestine: Arab / Jewish Population (1914 - 1946)

 

[al-Hasani]

No, that those migrations would have led to the State of Israel coming into being in 1948, absent a Hitler and a WW2. From the graph I posted you you can tell a little surge in immigration into Palestine as per the start of WW2 and a big one per the 1950 (just after the formation of Israel), which are the folks coming out of the War. I think you have been missing my point, which concerns momentum and reaching a critical mass of support.

That graph is not accurate. Did you take a look at my two links and the dozens of references that they contain?

You are right about the Jewish migration, both from the Arab world and Europe, reaching its peak after WW2. But that does not change the fact that for instance the largest city (Jerusalem) became a Jewish-majority city for the first time in over 1300 years BEFORE the start of WW2. Jews already became a majority in 1922 THANKS to the migration that I am speaking about.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the point here is that the Jewish migration did not occur due to Hitler or WW2. It started WELL before. In fact before Hitler was even born!

 

[Penguin]

I agree Hitler was good at getting people to follow him i.e very charismatic, convincing, intimidating. It was not possible for him to do what he did without this leadership ability ..off course on negative side he was racist, mass murdered and cruel leader who wanted to get rid of anyone that was not Aryan. That includes jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists etc

And let's not forget: poles, ukrainians, russians and other 'slavic' peoples in general, roma/gypsies in particular, any political opponents (including, but not limited to: anarchists, communists, socialists, social democrats), catholics, protestants, jehova's witnesses, freemasons, homosexual men, the mentally or physically disabled, people with learning disabilities, even esperantists (speakers of the international auxiliary language of Esperanto).

That graph is not accurate. Did you take a look at my two links and the dozens of references that they contain?

You are right about the Jewish migration, both from the Arab world and Europe, reaching its peak after WW2. But that does not change the fact that for instance the largest city (Jerusalem) became a Jewish-majority city for the first time in over 1300 years BEFORE the start of WW2. Jews already became a majority in 1922 THANKS to the migration that I am speaking about.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the point here is that the Jewish migration did not occur due to Hitler or WW2. It started WELL before. In fact before Hitler was even born!

In case you missed that, I never said it DIDN'T! Lets not confuse Jerusalem with Palestine as a whole. If there had been no WW2, you are saying there would eventually have been a State of Israel anyway. Ok, when do you estimate that would have occurred? Sooner or later (relative to 1948)? Would that have been a more gradual change? Or would it have gone down in a similar manner that Israel emerged in 1948? If more gradual, how would that have affected the subsquent wars in the 1950s, 60s, 70 and 80s? Would those have happened? Etc.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yes, OVERALL but not those specific areas that I have highlighted. Hence why I have never praised those other parts of his personality.

@Desert Fox

Maybe, but you make statements sometimes without those qualifications.
I believe that You need to qualify praise in each post, and never give Hitler broad praise,
like "praise as a statesman before WW2".

Desert Fox on my ignore list.

 

[FaujHistorian]

That graph is not accurate. Did you take a look at my two links and the dozens of references that they contain?

You are right about the Jewish migration, both from the Arab world and Europe, reaching its peak after WW2. But that does not change the fact that for instance the largest city (Jerusalem) became a Jewish-majority city for the first time in over 1300 years BEFORE the start of WW2. Jews already became a majority in 1922 THANKS to the migration that I am speaking about.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the point here is that the Jewish migration did not occur due to Hitler or WW2. It started WELL before. In fact before Hitler was even born!

So Jerusalem would have had 100,000 Jews.

It would not have resulted in millions increase in population.

This way Jews would have existed as part of some Arab state. I am not so sure if Palestine would have come about. Most like Jordan would have been in control.

And the King there was not as Wahabi as Saud, so Jews would be just jordanian citizens

Thanks

 

[al-Hasani]

In case you missed that, I never said it DIDN'T! Lets not confuse Jerusalem with Palestine as a whole. If there had been no WW2, you are saying there would eventually have been a State of Israel anyway. Ok, when do you estimate that would have occurred? Sooner or later (relative to 1948)? Would that have been a more gradual change? Or would it have gone down in a similar manner that Israel emerged in 1948? If more gradual, how would that have affected the subsquent wars in the 1950s, 60s, 70 and 80s? Would those have happened? Etc.

Jews were not only settling in Jerusalem but all across Palestine. Anyway then we don't disagree.

It's hard to tell but there is little argument for a sudden halt of Jewish migrants into what is now Israel and Palestine had WW2 not occurred as the Aliyah had been a constant process from 1882 until 1939.

So yes, at some point a confrontation between the locals and migrants would have been inevitable as they already became the majority in the biggest city back in 1922.

What tells you that Israel would not have existed had WW2 not happened?

@FaujHistorian

I hope that you realize that the Royal Family of Jordan happen to be from nearby Hijaz originally? In fact they are fellow Makkawi Hashemites. They are my distant relatives and that of all other Makkawi Hashemites.

Nobody committed any genocides or mass killings of Jews in the Arab world. Not even shortly after the declaration of Israel in 1947. So I very much doubt that anyone would have killed ALL Jews in KSA had they still been present back then. Anyway you might not know this but many Zionists instigated those riots in order to force Jews out. Be it from Iraq or Yemen.

Read about "Operation Magic Carpet" and other events in the Arab world concerning Jews.