HIT new project of Armored Fighting Vehicle

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

Nice effort .

 

[RAMPAGE]

View attachment 874424KIA MRAP
View attachment 874425
Yoruk 4 X 4
View attachment 874427
COBRA MRAP
View attachment 874428
BMC Amazon
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Khizir 4 x 4
Armoring Toyota Hilux is good start but won't work much. They would have to go for armored vehicles and Turkey alone can provide several solutions of various sizes along with other companies.

These are either bulky or have a large floor angle resulting in reduced blast protection. Something lighter like the British Ocelot/Foxhound would be better suited. Top speed is 112 km/h.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMO neither the Army nor the FC/Rangers need large numbers of MRAPs. The usefulness of MRAPs is literally only useful for COIN. While we've had insurgency problems, it has never flared to the point of needing to buy 1,000+ MRAPs. We should aim to pick up 2nd hand MRAPs for pennies on the dollar, not sink money into new ones.

If we need new vehicles, we should think about general-purpose 4x4 LAVs.

So, basically, a 9-10-ton vehicle with STANAG 4569 Level 2 or Level 3 protection. It won't necessarily excel in the specific areas of an MRAP, but a good 4x4 LAV could still offer better survivability and versatility in most scenarios than the up-armored Hilux. We can also use these LAVs as utility vehicles in conventional wars for troop transport, supply logistics, ATGM or MANPAD carriers, light ELINT vehicles, and so on.

If we had to sink money into locally manufacturing a vehicle, I'd rather it go into a 4x4 LAV that can serve us across many functions and justify a 1,000+ unit order. Tbh, when the U.S. said no to FMF/CSF for the F-16s and AH-1Zs, we should've asked if we could just pour that money into buying 2,000 to 3,000 JLTVs.

 

[Steppe Wolff]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564276275422056455

 

[Dreamer.]

Tbh, when the U.S. said no to FMF/CSF for the F-16s and AH-1Zs, we should've asked if we could just pour that money into buying 2,000 to 3,000 JLTVs.

TBH, when they said no to FMF/CSF etc. they said no to the money, not to the items. I don't think we could have used that money for anything. (JLTV's or C-130's or lollipops). I think Trump was clear about that...no more use of U.S. money.

 

[S.Y.A]

If HIT needs "experience and lessons in project management" the SOE would be better off shutdown.

With all the "TOT" and defense expos HIT cant put together a competent IFV or MRAP it's time to just move away. Assembly of stuff can easily be done by the Atlas Honda/Indus Motor/Pak Suzuki no?

The focus has always been on importing stuff and slapping Green and White flags on it to show off at parades when they're not parked at some brigade lot.

Shortsighted generals have never won wars noone remembers them.

if you shut it down what will happen to the numerous army-men who were not good enough for the army but were instead dumped in orgs like these?

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564835091087507459

 

[Signalian]

if you shut it down what will happen to the numerous army-men who were not good enough for the army but were instead dumped in orgs like these?

The Military personnel can go to staff duties in training, technical, administrative and formation HQs as well as GHQ. The requirement of officers and soldiers is always there due combat losses, accidents, and retirement which cannot be fulfilled by recently passed out 2nd Lts.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

if you shut it down what will happen to the numerous army-men who were not good enough for the army but were instead dumped in orgs like these?

Tough shyt.

If the only thing the organization is capable of is tightening screws then why not hire some uneducated 15 year old and pay him 10,000 PKR.

 

[RAMPAGE]

IMO neither the Army nor the FC/Rangers need large numbers of MRAPs. The usefulness of MRAPs is literally only useful for COIN. While we've had insurgency problems, it has never flared to the point of needing to buy 1,000+ MRAPs. We should aim to pick up 2nd hand MRAPs for pennies on the dollar, not sink money into new ones.

If we need new vehicles, we should think about general-purpose 4x4 LAVs.

So, basically, a 9-10-ton vehicle with STANAG 4569 Level 2 or Level 3 protection. It won't necessarily excel in the specific areas of an MRAP, but a good 4x4 LAV could still offer better survivability and versatility in most scenarios than the up-armored Hilux. We can also use these LAVs as utility vehicles in conventional wars for troop transport, supply logistics, ATGM or MANPAD carriers, light ELINT vehicles, and so on.

If we had to sink money into locally manufacturing a vehicle, I'd rather it go into a 4x4 LAV that can serve us across many functions and justify a 1,000+ unit order. Tbh, when the U.S. said no to FMF/CSF for the F-16s and AH-1Zs, we should've asked if we could just pour that money into buying 2,000 to 3,000 JLTVs.

View attachment 874738

A 4x4 LAV platoform can be modified to incorporate a v-shaped crew compartment, no?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

A 4x4 LAV platoform can be modified to incorporate a v-shaped crew compartment, no?

IIRC, I've seen some 4x4 LAVs have MRAP subvariants with v-shaped hulls.

That said, if the DongFeng Mengshi GEN-III CSK-182 news is accurate, it seems the PA is moving towards the 4x4 LAV model.

 

[RAMPAGE]

IIRC, I've seen some 4x4 LAVs have MRAP subvariants with v-shaped hulls.

That said, if the DongFeng Mengshi GEN-III CSK-182 news is accurate, it seems the PA is moving towards the 4x4 LAV model.

Do you recall a specific platform? I suppose building an MRAP on an existing V8 truck platform, such as the Ford F-550, with a suitable suspension should be pretty easy for HIT. I imagine, and I may be oversimplifying, that all HIT needs to do is add an armoured engine compartment and a v-shaped crew compartment.

The DongFeng Mengshi seems to be designed around a similar platform.

 

[farooqbhai007]

Do you recall a specific platform? I suppose building an MRAP on an existing V8 truck platform, such as the Ford F-550, with a suitable suspension should be pretty easy for HIT. I imagine, and I may be oversimplifying, that all HIT needs to do is add an armoured engine compartment and a v-shaped crew compartment.

The DongFeng Mengshi seems to be designed around a similar platform.

View attachment 875329

Lol Mengshi is not designed on civil chassis. The mengshi we are acquiring is the 3rd gen menghsi which the Chinese have reached after decades of work. The 2nd gen mengshi was equivalent to Armoured humvee , the 3rd gen one has better but limited mine protection than 2nd gen one.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Lol Mengshi is not designed on civil chassis. The mengshi we are acquiring is the 3rd gen menghsi which the Chinese have reached after decades of work. The 2nd gen mengshi was equivalent to Armoured humvee , the 3rd gen one has better but limited mine protection than 2nd gen one.

What is a civil chassis? Commercial heavy duty trucks and military trucks have chassis built to withstand comparable stress.

 

[Raja Porus]

Perhaps the plan could be to motorize regular infantry battalions.

What would be the benefit of this?
We already have S&T coys for transporting inf bns. Adding a truck coy to an SIB would only increase the load on the CO. He would then be performing the dual roles of CO of an inf bn as well as S&T. It would become hectic especially when it would come to maint and service. The annual inspections and veh service would become his key priorities and may compromise the core role of the inf bn. This was also the reason why armd regts were reduced from 70+ tanks to 44; so that the commander can focus more on operational deployment than on logistics and maintenance.
However I do support motorisation of the weapon coy of SIBs. If the 12 ATGMs, AGLs and even mortars of SIBs are based on lightly armoured vehs, then this would give SIB a great punch and will almost be equal to a LAT coy. An Inf div will have 9× wpn coys and GOC can use them as LAT coys as well, especially wpn coys of reserve bdes.
Couple these with atleast 1×Armd bde, 5-7 arty regts( all 155mm in future), 1×LAT regt(atleast); and our IDs will themselves become a very potent fighting force against mech formations as well.
Thus, no commander on either side will want his force to directly confront the enemy without prior attrition by indirect means. And for that arty will be the major source. So, I believe that as less as we discuss it, arty is going to be the dominant army in a future Indo-Pak conflict. The side which is able to achieve better concentration of arty firepower will be able ot punch holes which can then be exploited by mech forces.
But with concentration of arty, comes the problem of logistics. Since our conflict will be short and intense, arty supplies will be required at shortest possible notice. Hence this would require many forward supply depots. But then these would become prime targets for enemy arty and IAF. So counter battery fire as well as suppression of IAF bases will be of prime importance, both of which will be done by arty along with PAF.