History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[nalan]

Even Japanese and Koreans adopted Chinese script, they surely aren't Chinese.

if there are tens million koreans living in china or tens million chinese living in kr...it does naturely,right?

Tibetans too use Indian derived script instead of a Chinese writing system, many of the letters are extremely identical to Hindi's Devanagari script. What will a Chinese say about it.

it is easier to "copy" these than chinese,and consider their custom,so no surprise they turned to learn these.but we closer them than anyone,we need time to enhance our influence.

 

[nalan]

 


Both have Southeast Asian influence, but Viets have stronger one.

Some Cantonese retained some local characteristics in appearance,and some not.Guangdong is the province of immigrants.

 

[Wholegrain]

Even Japanese and Koreans adopted Chinese script, they surely aren't Chinese.

It seems you suffer from terminal dyslexia, because yue10 never said anything about using Chinese script making people Chinese. He is referring to claims by Vietnamese historians that they had their own script before they were ruled by China and used Chinese characters, but no one except the Vietnamese believes in their fantasy claims. Western historians do not recognize this fictional "Vietnamese script" that pre-dated Chinese rule.

Ancient Vietnamese writing decoded - News VietNamNet

Funny how reports of this script only appear in Vietnam, and no western or asian historian (except the Vietnamese themselves) believes this "script" is real. 

Nope, both countries are better under the rule of the communist party. 


Both have Southeast Asian influence, but Viets have stronger one.

The Baiyue who lived in Guangdong were Tai people like the Zhuang and Li people, they were not austro asiatic like Vietnamese Kinh. You should compare Zhuang and Li people.

 

[EastSea]

Wiki also states that Cantonese is among the closest Chinese language to Middle Chinese.

Yue Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Cantonese language is closer to Middle Chinese than Mandarin.

Early Child Cantonese: Facts and Implications - Shek Tse, Hui Li - Google Books

The Chinese Language: Its History and Current Usage - Google Books

China - Michael Cannings - Google Books



Over 60-68% of Cantonese have paternal descent from northern Han. Ethnicity in Vietnam and China is traced through the father. Kinh, Han, Miao, Yao, Manchu, Mongol, and Koreans all trace ancestry through the father and ethnicity is inherited from the father. They are called patrilineal and patriarchial societies for a reason. Even today, the Minh Huong and Hoa in Vietnam trace their ancestry through their father. 60% is majority, do you know how to do math?

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic Inference of Plains Indigenous Ancestry ... - Shu-Juo Chen - Google Books



Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han cult... [Nature. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v431/n7006/full/nature02878.html

http://159.226.149.45/compgenegroup/paper/wenbo Han culture paper (2004).pdf



European Journal of Human Genetics - Abstract of article: A spatial analysis of genetic structure of human populations in China reveals distinct difference between maternal and paternal lineages



Cantonese people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

大中华文明圈各地域人们的血统构成，例：大和民族九州岛父系—汉族血统40%... – 【人人分享-人人网】



We know full well that Cantonese and Hakka mtDNA (inherited from the mother) is from the natives, nobody tried to hide it because ethnicity isn't traced through the mother.

Analysis of matrilineal genetic background differences between Chaoshan population,Cantonese and Hakka--《Journal of Xi'an Jiaotong University(Medical Sciences)》2010年06期

40 million Cantonese have their paternal blood lineage from native people, no Han.

Who are they ?

 

[Rechoice]

the Lac Viet was Tai people Xi Ou was Tai tribe led by An Duong Vuong, it make more sense for 2 Tai tribes to form coexisting group then a Tai and Mon-Khmer somehow come together as brothers

Lac = prefix for Tai clans

the pure AA Annam pigs was centred in Laos and later occupied the delta during AD period, Nan Yue, Trung sisters have nothing to do with these people they are claiming the wrong ancestors. the Red River delta was belonging to Tai people and the Viet stole their homelands but somehow they come out with ridiculous idea of claiming back lost lands in Southern China

I am calling on Chinese on behalf of ethnic Daic minorities and also Lao, Thai, Shan to mobilise forces and take back lost Tai homelands from these Annam pigs

According to the related historical records, the population history of the Kinh, which we extrapolated also, conforms to the pattern of demic diffusion. In North Vietnam, the early inhabitant is the Luo-Yue of Daic family. In the Han dynasty, there was a war between the Chinese central government and the Southern Yue government, which resulted in heavy political pressure on the Yue (Daic) population, which lasted into Wu dynasty of the Three States Period. A large number of Daic populations including the Luo-Yue moved westwards to Guizhou, west Guangxi, Laos, and as far as north Thailand. It was nearly empty along Tonkin Bay, including North Vietnam and east Guangxi. In the following, the Jing dynasty and the Southern-Northern States Period, as the northern nomads invaded central China, the Chinese government ignored Tonkin Bay and left it for the growing Kinh population. Since then, the Kinh appeared in the records of north Vietnam. After a long time of development in the Sui and Tang dynasties, a country of Kinh people was founded during the China’s civil strife in the late Tang dynasty.

The geographic origin and time of dispersal of Austroasiatic (AA) speakers, presently settled in south and southeast Asia, remains disputed. Two rival hypotheses, both assuming a demic component to the language dispersal, have been proposed. The first of these places the origin of Austroasiatic speakers in southeast Asia with a later dispersal to south Asia during the Neolithic, whereas the second hypothesis advocates pre-Neolithic origins and dispersal of this language family from south Asia. To test the two alternative models, this study combines the analysis of uniparentally inherited markers with 610,000 common single nucleotide polymorphism loci from the nuclear genome. Indian AA speakers have high frequencies of Y chromosome haplogroup O2a; our results show that this haplogroup has significantly higher diversity and coalescent time (17-28 thousand years ago) in southeast Asia, strongly supporting the first of the two hypotheses. Nevertheless, the results of principal component and "structure-like" analyses on autosomal loci also show that the population history of AA speakers in India is more complex, being characterized by two ancestral components-one represented in the pattern of Y chromosomal and EDAR results and the other by mitochondrial DNA diversity and genomic structure. We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations

Rather, their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information.

Don't make same mistake what Champa did in the past when they tried annex Jiaozhi land to them.

 

[INDIC]

if there are tens million koreans living in china or tens million chinese living in kr...it does naturely,right?


it is easier to "copy" these than chinese,and consider their custom,so no surprise they turned to learn these.but we closer them than anyone,we need time to enhance our influence.

Koreans are non Hans but an ethnic minority in China while Tibetans share very little common culture with Hans, there is hardly any influence of Taoism and Confucianism in Tibet.

 

[Viet]

The Baiyue who lived in Guangdong were Tai people like the Zhuang and Li people, they were not austro asiatic like Vietnamese Kinh. You should compare Zhuang and Li people.

Who is Tai people? You are right, they are not Viets, but do they look Cantonese or Southern Han? For me, they look more Thai than Chinese.

Tai women in China

and Mr cleverness, can you tell me
what is austro-asiatic?
who are the people that speak austro-asiatic languages?

I found some sources and articles, so I post them here:
Austro-Asiatic Language Family

Overview

Austro- means "south" in Greek, hence the name Austro-Asiatic. Most of the languages that belong to this family are spoken in Southeast Asia, in countries located between China and Indonesia. A few are spoken to the west of this area in theNicobar Islands and in India.
The Austro-Asiatic family includes 168 languages. Ethnologue subdivides it into two branches: Mon-Khmer with 147 languages, and Munda with 21 languages. Below is a listing of the various groups, their membership size, and areas where they are spoken:

Mon-Khmer (147 Languages)
Aslian
19 languages
Malay peninsula
Eastern Mon-Khmer
67 languages
Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam
Monic
2 languages
Myanmar, Thailand
Nicobar
6 languages
Nicobar Islands, parts of India
Northern Mon-Khmer
38 languages
India, Myanmar, Laos, Southern China, Thailand
Palyu
1 language
Southern China
Viet-Muong
10 languages (including Vietnamese)
Vietnam and Laos
Unclassified
4 languages
China
Munda (21 languages)
North Munda
12 languages
India
South Munda
9 languages
India

Over two-thirds of these languages are seriously endangered, on the brink of extinction, or are already extinct. As you can see from the table below, only 24 (14%) of the 168 languages have populations over 50,000, and only three have populations of over 1 million.

It is not known where the Austro-Asiatic people who speak these languages came from or when they migrated to this part of the world. It is probable that they came from southern or southeastern China some time between 2,000-2,500 BC, and migrated south into the Indo-Chinese peninsula and west into India. Invasions by speakers of other languages split the Austro-Asiatic languages into several groups. As a result of these invasions, few national states ever developed in the areas where these languages were spoken. The only exceptions were Khmer, Mon, and Vietnamese. The rest of the speakers of Austro-Asiatic languages continue to live in small tribal groups even today.

Because of their separation from each other and because these languages were surrounded by other languages that influenced them, they exhibit great diversity. For instance, The Munda branch has been influenced by synthetic, non-tonal Ind0-Aryan languages, the Mon-Khmer branch, on the other hand, was influenced by analytic, tonal languages of China. As a result, the two branches have evolved in different directions which makes the reconstruction of their common ancestor extremely difficult.

Vietnamese Language

Official language of Vietnam, spoken in the early 21st century by more than 70 million people. It belongs to the Viet-Muong subbranch of the Vietic branch of the Mon-Khmer family, which is itself a part of the Austroasiatic stock. Except for a group of divergent rural dialects spoken between Hue and Vinh, most of the dialects of Vietnamese differ from each other to about the same degree as do the dialects of English in the United States. The standard language is based on the speech of educated people living in and around Hanoi. A large proportion of the vocabulary of Vietnamese has been borrowed from Chinese, and the influence of Tai languages is also evident.

Characteristics of Vietnamese include the use of tones to distinguish words with identical consonant and vowel sequences, the use of word order to express the syntactic relations of words to each other, and the use of modifiers rather than affixes to express the tense and voice of verb forms.

-

Britannica Encyclopedia
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/...amese-language#

Muong people in Vietnam (they look similar to Viet/Kinh people):

Muong girls

Names of VN:

Van Lang - from about 500 B.C. to 257 B.C.
Au Lac - from 257 B.C. to 207 B.C.
Nam Viet - from 207 B.C. to 111 B.C.
Giao Chi - from 111 B.C. to A.D. 203
Giao Chau - from 203 to 544
Van Xuan - from 544 to 603
An Nam - meaning the "Pacified South," during China's occupation from 603 to 939
Dai Viet - during the Ngo Dynasty 939 to 967
Dai Co Viet - from 968 to 1054, during the Dinh, early Le and early Ly dynasties
Dai Viet - from 1054 to 1400 the Ngo Dynasty name returned during the later Ly and Tran dynasties
Dai Ngu - during the Ho Dynasty, 1400-1407
An Nam - again, under the Chinese from 1407 to 1428
Dai Viet - returned for a third time from 1428 to 1802 under the later Le, Mac and Tay Son dynasties

Viet Nam - made its first appearance in 1802
Dai Nam - starting in 1832
Cochin China, Annam and Tonkin - under the French, for the southern, central and northern regions respectively

Viet Nam - chosen again in 1945

 

[Viet]

the Lac Viet was Tai people Xi Ou was Tai tribe led by An Duong Vuong, it make more sense for 2 Tai tribes to form coexisting group then a Tai and Mon-Khmer somehow come together as brothers

Lac = prefix for Tai clans

the pure AA Annam pigs was centred in Laos and later occupied the delta during AD period, Nan Yue, Trung sisters have nothing to do with these people they are claiming the wrong ancestors. the Red River delta was belonging to Tai people and the Viet stole their homelands but somehow they come out with ridiculous idea of claiming back lost lands in Southern China

I am calling on Chinese on behalf of ethnic Daic minorities and also Lao, Thai, Shan to mobilise forces and take back lost Tai homelands from these Annam pigs

Care of your language, you fcking retard! You are pathetic, just good at faking history.
Lạc Việt (雒越), Âu Lạc (甌雒/甌駱) are ancient Vietnam. Lac means water, referring to the Red River delta where the Viets live.

So now you can run amok.

 

[yue10]

yue10 is a troller and idiot. He forgets to tell one of the most important facts:
- we Viets were Chinese or Han Viet for almost 1,000 years (111 bc-938 ad) and that means China/Vietnam shared a common history for 1,000 years. We both were the same citizen in the same country.
- conclusion: how can he blame we dare to copy from the Han if we are Han ourselves?
You can ignore the rest what he says because it is just shit. As usual. Every idiot can write and make history up.

Care of your language, you fcking retard! You are pathetic, just good at faking history.
Lạc Việt (雒越), Âu Lạc (甌雒/甌駱) are ancient Vietnam. Lac means water, referring to the Red River delta where the Viets lives .

So now you can run amok.
there you go again with your swearing, the Viet race is uncivilised as usual, can expect nothing more
anyways no I did not make up history, I just copied pasted what the professor people opinions, it is not fact ‘Kinh’ was ruled by Chinese for 1000yrs, your main book for ancient history is written in 15th century amigo so how can you know what happened all the way back in 2879BC, look here your own Viet professor wrote this

the Vietnamese historians belonging either to the old Chinese school or to the socialist school, had explained the formation of the Vietnamese people in terms of a radical difference in origin with the Chinese people, any similitude that could be found between Vietnamese and the Chinese was constituted as imposed by the governing nation – China to the governed one – Vietnam
But if it were so, one of the strangest phenomena had happened. Why other ethnic groups of Vietnam, such as the Muong, the Man, the Lolo, the Nung, the Thai, the Meo, etc…could keep their customs, their language, their religions, in one word, their way of life, and only the Vietnamese lost theirs? Were they not the majority of the population? Why, globally speaking, the Vietnamese culture was Chinese? the Vietnamese language was Chinese? the Vietnamese religions were Chinese? the Vietnamese education was Chinese?

can understand the bold sentence? your modern historian try to make it sound like everything that is similar to Chinese was forced upon you during domination period but they seem to forgot that you desperately tried to copy AFTER independence

In the fifteenth century, when Confucian thought first dominated the Vietnamese court, historians seeking to extend the genealogy of Confucian practice as far as possible into the past recorded the 1070 shrine as a Temple of Literature (Van Mieu), which indeed it became in the fifteenth century, a type of temple that in Ming China was dedicated to Confucius. However, the first Van Mieu in China was built in 1410, so an eleventh-century Van Mieu in Vietnam is implausible. After years of dereliction during the twentieth-century wars, the Van Mieu in Hanoi has been rebuilt and is now a major tourist site, claimed as the first university in Vietnam.

The Sino-Vietnamese term Hán, normally used in reference to Chinese people, appears frequently in early Nguyễn records, Choi and Tana suggest that Hán actually refers to ethnic Vietnamese, who decided by the early 19th century to adopt that term for to distinguish themselves from the other ethnic groups they encountered in their migration to the Water Frontier.

IS there any plans to abandon the communist party?
IS the Vietnam China situation much like the China Soviet situation of the past?
But from what I can see due to size and population we have not only matched by outperformed the Russians in terms of economy, and it is only a matter of time before we do so on other fronts.
How does Vietnam see itself? How will Vietnam react, because unless something crazy happens and we go back to cultural revolution China and Vietnam becomes Meiji or post war Japan, there is no way Vietnam will ever surpass China, it's a simple matter of we got 10 times the population and a bunch more land.
So what is Vietnam's role and future relationship with China? Are we going to be a UK, US relationship?

no, my Chinese friend, it seemed the Viet think they can invite bloodsucker foreign devil people into VN and then one day miraculously the Viet will form their own national companies and somehow out compete already established and entrenched multinationals, they will click their fingers and suddenly produce and dominate in electronics, heavy/light industry, services and everything is fine and dandy

Don't make same mistake what Champa did in the past when they tried annex Jiaozhi land to them.

I am sure they can work something out with the Chinese my Annam friend
[video]

[/video] 

Care of your language, you fcking retard! You are pathetic, just good at faking history.
Lạc Việt (雒越), Âu Lạc (甌雒/甌駱) are ancient Vietnam. Lac means water, referring to the Red River delta where the Viets lives .
So now you can run amok.

look here my Annam friend
The early Chinese sources where this information appears, such as Sima Qian’s Historical Records and Li Daoyuan’s Annotated Classic of Waterways, also contain many names for people who inhabited the area of what is today southern China and northern Vietnam. For instance, they mention such names as Đông Việt/
Dongyue (東甌), Lạc Việt/Luoyue (駱越), Âu Việt/Ouyue (甌越), Tây Âu/Xi’ou (西甌), Âu Lạc/Ouluo (甌駱), and Tây Âu Lạc/Xi Ouluo (西甌駱). In their passages on King An Dương, however, these sources merely mentioned that the people he defeated before coming to power were called the Lạc. Centuries after this information was recorded in Chinese texts, the Vietnamese Complete Book provided more details about King An Dương. It notes that after he conquered the last Hùng king, he established a kingdom called Âu Hạc.39 This term, Âu Hạc/Ouhao (甌貉), does not appear in any Chinese sources. Indeed, Chinese sources do not provide a name for King An Dương’s kingdom. Vietnamese today transliterate this name as Âu Lạc rather than Âu Hạc, and argue that the Vietnamese wrote the character, lạc, differently. However, it is still only in Ngô Sĩ Liên’s 15th century Complete Book that this name fi rst appeared. Therefore, there is a great
deal of confusion surrounding this supposed name of King An Dương’s kingdom, as it only appears in a Vietnamese source over 1,500 years after it had supposedly existed, and contains a character which does not accord with any previous historical information.40

 

[EastSea]

So now you can run amok.
there you go again with your swearing, the Viet race is uncivilised as usual, can expect nothing more
anyways no I did not make up history, I just copied pasted what the professor people opinions, it is not fact ‘Kinh’ was ruled by Chinese for 1000yrs, your main book for ancient history is written in 15th century amigo so how can you know what happened all the way back in 2879BC, look here your own Viet professor wrote this


can understand the bold sentence? your modern historian try to make it sound like everything that is similar to Chinese was forced upon you during domination period but they seem to forgot that you desperately tried to copy AFTER independence






no, my Chinese friend, it seemed the Viet think they can invite bloodsucker foreign devil people into VN and then one day miraculously the Viet will form their own national companies and somehow out compete already established and entrenched multinationals, they will click their fingers and suddenly produce and dominate in electronics, heavy/light industry, services and everything is fine and dandy


I am sure they can work something out with the Chinese my Annam friend
[video]

[/video]

Idiot Chinese aggressors were beaten and ran away with bloody heads, time to time, Its enough, kid.

 

[yue10]

it

Idiot Chinese aggressors were beaten and ran away with bloody heads, time to time, Its enough, kid.

it is different times my friend, Hanoi can be demolished without one Chinese step foot over the border

 

[Viet]

S

I am sure they can work something out with the Chinese my Annam friend
[video]

[/video] 

look here my Annam friend

ha ha ha...so now you are running out of arguments and show your stick? what a retard!
will you take yourself a ride on a missile? yeah blow up yourself, that is fun. come on, do it  


this is the official version of Van Mieu (yours is fake, otherwise why don´t you publize your version on Internet?)

Temple of Literature, Hanoi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Temple of Literature (Văn Miếu, 文廟) is a temple of Confucius in Hanoi, northern Vietnam. The temple hosts the "Imperial Academy" (Quốc Tử Giám, 國子監), Vietnam's first national university. The temple was built in 1070 at the time of King Lý Nhân Tông. It is one of several temples in Vietnam which are dedicated to Confucius, sages and scholars.

 

[yue10]

ha ha ha...so now you are running out of arguments and show your stick? what a retard!
will you take yourself a ride on a missile? yeah blow up yourself, that is fun. come on, do it  


this is the official version of Van Mieu (yours is fake, otherwise why don´t you publize your version on Internet?)

Temple of Literature, Hanoi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Temple of Literature (Văn Miếu, 文廟) is a temple of Confucius in Hanoi, northern Vietnam. The temple hosts the "Imperial Academy" (Quốc Tử Giám, 國子監), Vietnam's first national university. The temple was built in 1070 at the time of King Lý Nhân Tông. It is one of several temples in Vietnam which are dedicated to Confucius, sages and scholars.

my Annam friend, it seemed you are quite angry, speaking the vicious words as usual, I was just showing the video to your comrade what are you speaking about showing stick, read again the quote my Annam friend, it is all from the professors not me, I just copy pasted
I troll properly when get back on computer

 

[Viet]

my Annam friend, it seemed you are quite angry, speaking the vicious words as usual, I was just showing the video to your comrade what are you speaking about showing stick, read again the quote my Annam friend, it is all from the professors not me, I just copy pasted
I troll properly when get back on computer

you are the one who resorted to racial slur (Annam pig). Read your own posts! Can you tell me more about your professors (subject in CCP or what)? Not everyone is free to say nonsense. You cannot copy and paste of what one tells and say that is the truth. Use your brain!

by the way, I find it funny to debate with someone who makes fun about our cultures (and some derived from Sinic), when he comes from a country being famous for destroying cultural heritage in the so-called cultural revolution (actually the term cultural destruction fits better).

 

[anilindia]

Which god viet workship ???