History of Afghans (Articles and Pictures)

[ghoul]

Genetics of Hazara clearly differentiates them from all other ethnic groups of afghanistan despite their heavy intermixing with other afghani ethnicities in afghanistan over the centuries, same is the case with most of the uzbeks and turkmens too. It is not as simple as many people like to believe, we are talking about a very large tribe of Ghilazis whose numbers are twice the total population of Hazaras in afghanistan, the genetics of such a huge huge tribe cannot just change to the genetics of another equal size tribe like durranis/abdalis due to intermixing, if it was the case then both of them should show at least high levels of east eurasian component contributed by the massive tribe of supposedly "turkic" origin from central asia but that is not the case which means that the mythological claim of turkic origin of ghilzai tribe is simply put a BS of history books . I have totally stopped taking the origins of the tribes based on history books seriously , we live in modern age we can ascertain the origin of each tribe and ethnic group quite easily by modern scientific genetic tests. I am a student of science so my belief is always in science rather than in history books because I understand "science" in its "real" form and know how it works.

If I remember correctly, Pashtuns did have a substantially big east Asian componen(around 4%-7% if my memory serves right). Science can't describe genetics clearly. The genetic results are very ambiguous. And you might be right about Ghilzais though. They're assumed to be turkic only because of their name's similarity with "Khilji". Khiljis are said to be named after a place called "Khalaj" and weren't pashtuns at all.

As for Hazaras. I don't believe intermixing is all that widespread. They're looked down upon by Tajiks and Pashtuns just as mussalis and kammis are looked down upon by Rajputs and Jatts in Punjab.

 

[Shahmir]

If I remember correctly, Pashtuns did have a substantially big east Asian componen(around 4%-7% if my memory serves right). Science can't describe genetics clearly. The genetic results are very ambiguous. And you might be right about Ghilzais though. They're assumed to be turkic only because of their name's similarity with "Khilji". Khiljis are said to be named after a place called "Khalaj" and weren't pashtuns at all.

As for Hazaras. I don't believe intermixing is all that widespread. They're looked down upon by Tajiks and Pashtuns just as mussalis and kammis are looked down upon by Rajputs and Jatts in Punjab.

4-7% is not big since most punjabis and kashmiris also have their east eurasian score in the same range and sometimes even higher than this number without any supposedly turkic heavy admixture.
And contrary to popular belief there is indeed some level of intermixing between Hazaras and other afghani ethnicities, even on the racist pasthunforums many afghani pashtuns and tajiks also verified this point.

 

[ghoul]

About awans and arab ancestry, i can't remember name but pdf user who is awan did genetic test and his y chromosome was similar to arabs and not found in subcontinent.

Most Arab Y-DNA lineages would be found in Pakistan. Pakistan, particularly Sindh have had quite a frequent contact with the Arabs. But yeah Arab Y-lines would be almost non-existent in the confirmed local tribes like the Rajputs and Jatts. I personally don't believe the Awans' claim to an arab ancestry. I mean it becomes quite obvious after looking at their family tree. They claim their ancestor Qutub-Shah had 4-5 sons, and look at some of their names; Chohan, Khokhar etc... I mean lol. Khokhar, chohan etc are all local rajput tribes. Why would Qutub Shah name his sons after rajput tribes? I personally believe they were rajput clans who stopped getting recognized as such by their neighbouring rajput clans over time maybe, and wanted to avoid the jatt label, hence they invented a Qutub Shah pedigree. Just my 2 cents though.

4-7% is not big since most punjabis and kashmiris also have their east eurasian score in the same range and sometimes even higher than this number without any supposedly turkic heavy admixture.

I meant the east asian component. It was non-existent in jatts and rajputs.

 

[Kabira]

If I remember correctly, Pashtuns did have a substantially big east Asian componen(around 4%-7% if my memory serves right). Science can't describe genetics clearly. The genetic results are very ambiguous. And you might be right about Ghilzais though. They're assumed to be turkic only because of their name's similarity with "Khilji". Khiljis are said to be named after a place called "Khalaj" and weren't pashtuns at all.

As for Hazaras. I don't believe intermixing is all that widespread. They're looked down upon by Tajiks and Pashtuns just as mussalis and kammis are looked down upon by Rajputs and Jatts in Punjab.

pashtuns east asian component is very low, 2% on harappadna.

 

[Shahmir]

Most Arab Y-DNA lineages would be found in Pakistan. Pakistan, particularly Sindh have had quite a frequent contact with the Arabs. But yeah Arab Y-lines would be almost non-existent in the confirmed local tribes like the Rajputs and Jatts. I personally don't believe the Awans' claim to an arab ancestry. I mean it becomes quite obvious after looking at their family tree. They claim their ancestor Qutub-Shah had 4-5 sons, and look at some of their names; Chohan, Khokhar etc... I mean lol. Khokhar, chohan etc are all local rajput tribes. Why would Qutub Shah name his sons after rajput tribes? I personally believe they were rajput clans who stopped getting recognized as such by their neighbouring rajput clans over time maybe, and wanted to avoid the jatt label, hence they invented a Qutub Shah pedigree. Just my 2 cents though.



I meant the east asian component. It was non-existent in jatts and rajputs.

Pakistani punjabi Jatt samples on harappa do have east eurasian components in 4-8 % range such as siberian, NE asian, American and Beringian etc. From Harappa results it appears to me that punjabi Arain and Gujjars are genetically more similar to pakistani jatts as compared to rajputs.

 

[ghoul]

Pakistani punjabi Jatt samples on harappa do have east eurasian components in 4-8 % range such as siberian, NE asian, American and Beringian etc. From Harappa results it appears to me that punjabi Arain and Gujjars are genetically more similar to pakistani jatts as compared to rajputs.

All these 1%, 2% components seem like noise to me. And there wasn't a major difference as far as I can remember.

 

[Shahmir]

All these 1%, 2% components seem like noise to me. And there wasn't a major difference as far as I can remember.

A lot of work is being done by many bloggers on a genetics dedicated forum called anthrogenica, there you can see the charts made by a south asian guy called Dr. Mcninja where he has analyed many jatts, pashtuns, pakistanis, afghans, indians etc. according to various modern calculators which are much better than harappa calculator and more accurately track different genetic components in the individual samples. The pashtuns don't have any more east eurasian than south asian guys according to Dr. Mcninja results , actually many times they have lower east eurasian than more south indian shifted populations of pakistan and india. Science is always on the move , it never stops it just gets better with every passing day and reveals ever more information. I would highly recommend Anthrogenica forum if you are interested in genetic profile of world populations in general and south asian populations in particular since there are many "Zack" like people on that forum who develop their own genetic calculators and put a lot of hard work on daily basis just for the sake of serving the "science" , the science that has revolutionized the otherwise primitive world of ours.

 

[Kabira]

Most Arab Y-DNA lineages would be found in Pakistan. Pakistan, particularly Sindh have had quite a frequent contact with the Arabs. But yeah Arab Y-lines would be almost non-existent in the confirmed local tribes like the Rajputs and Jatts. I personally don't believe the Awans' claim to an arab ancestry. I mean it becomes quite obvious after looking at their family tree. They claim their ancestor Qutub-Shah had 4-5 sons, and look at some of their names; Chohan, Khokhar etc... I mean lol. Khokhar, chohan etc are all local rajput tribes. Why would Qutub Shah name his sons after rajput tribes? I personally believe they were rajput clans who stopped getting recognized as such by their neighbouring rajput clans over time maybe, and wanted to avoid the jatt label, hence they invented a Qutub Shah pedigree. Just my 2 cents though..

Rajput is just a title, Khokhar i know claim to be jats. In central punjab khokhar, bhatti, watto are not rajput exclusive surnames like rana, rao, rai. For exemple Raheel is bhatti rajput but there is national assembly member who is bhatti jat. Jats only surnames at least in central punjab would be bajwa, gill, gondal, tarrar, warraich, sipra, chatha, ranjha, sials from jhang etc

Well that user family also claimed arab ancestry, and y chromosome being arab origin was indeed very surprising. Normally central asia and south asians have similar haplogroups. But arab have distinct haplogroups, if i remember his name i will ask him to submit raw data to harappadna or gedmatch.

 

[Shahmir]

Rajput is just a title, Khokhar i know claim to be jats. In central punjab khokhar, bhatti, watto are not rajput exclusive surnames like rana, rao, rai. For exemple Raheel is bhatti rajput but there is national assembly member who is bhatti jat. Jats only surnames at least in central punjab would be bajwa, gill, gondal, tarrar, warraich, sipra, chatha, ranjha, sials from jhang etc

Well that user family also claimed arab ancestry, and y chromosome being arab origin was indeed very surprising. Normally central asia and south asians have similar haplogroups. But arab have distinct haplogroups, if i remember his name i will ask him to submit raw data to harappadna or gedmatch.

I saw under the profile of one of haryana jat that he was khokhar from his maternal side, so it seems like there are supposedly some khokhars even among hindi speaking jats of haryana.

 

[Kabira]

A lot of work is being done by many bloggers on a genetics dedicated forum called anthrogenica, there you can see the charts made by a south asian guy called Dr. Mcninja where he has analyed many jatts, pashtuns, pakistanis, afghans, indians etc. according to various modern calculators which are much better than harappa calculator and more accurately track different genetic components in the individual samples. The pashtuns don't have any more east eurasian than south asian guys according to Dr. Mcninja results , actually many times they have lower east eurasian than more south indian shifted populations of pakistan and india. Science is always on the move , it never stops it just gets better with every passing day and reveals ever more information. I would highly recommend Anthrogenica forum if you are interested in genetic profile of world populations in general and south asian populations in particular since there are many "Zack" like people on that forum who develop their own genetic calculators and put a lot of hard work on daily basis just for the sake of serving the "science" , the science that has revolutionized the otherwise primitive world of ours.

Actually Zac himself is developing new calculator, thats why he do not update website at all.

 

[ghoul]

Rajput is just a title, Khokhar i know claim to be jats. In central punjab khokhar, bhatti, watto are not rajput exclusive surnames like rana, rao, rai. For exemple Raheel is bhatti rajput but there is national assembly member who is bhatti jat. Jats only surnames at least in central punjab would be bajwa, gill, gondal, tarrar, warraich, sipra, chatha, ranjha, sials from jhang etc

Well that user family also claimed arab ancestry, and y chromosome being arab origin was indeed very surprising. Normally central asia and south asians have similar haplogroups. But arab have distinct haplogroups, if i remember his name i will ask him to submit raw data to harappadna or gedmatch.

Well a lot of Mussalis and Tarkhaans claim to be Khokhars too. The real Khokhars are found in Pind Dadan Khan and Jhang, where they had their own jagirs. In Pind Dadan Khan, the Khokhars are called "Raja" and considered rajput. In the past, they had some heavy fighting with the local Janjuas in that region. In Jhang, they're called Rana I think.

And the Bhatti jatts are only found in Gujranwala I think. In the rest of Punjab, they're called Rajputs. Most real Bhattis are divided into their sub-castes any way like Noons, Manj, Wattoo etc. In my hometown, if you ask locals about who the Bhatti are, they say that they(bhatti) are mussali lol, as the local mussalis claim a Bhatti origin. Many christians of Sialkot also claim to be either Bhatti or Gill. And I thought Raheel was a Chib. I didn't know he was a Bhatti.

I saw under the profile of one of haryana jat that he was khokhar from his maternal side, so it seems like there are supposedly some khokhars even among hindi speaking jats of haryana.

The surname Khokhar is found in Sindh and Kashmir too. Many places got their names from the Khokhars, like Khokhrapar in Sindh. I know that they were originally from the Salt range, but later spread throughout the North India as they were quite savage. I recently read that their capital city during the Delhi sultanate was called Baniyan. I wonder where it is now. Must be a really interesting place. They're a very interesting people to me for they gave much trouble to the Delhi Sultanate. They also acompolished what many other South Asian races couldn't; assassinating a foreign invader. Muhammad Ghauri being the unfortunate one in this case.

 

[Kabira]

Well a lot of Mussalis and Tarkhaans claim to be Khokhars too. The real Khokhars are found in Pind Dadan Khan and Jhang, where they had their own jagirs. In Pind Dadan Khan, the Khokhars are called "Raja" and considered rajput. In the past, they had some heavy fighting with the local Janjuas in that region. In Jhang, they're called Rana I think.

And the Bhatti jatts are only found in Gujranwala I think. In the rest of Punjab, they're called Rajputs. Most real Bhattis are divided into their sub-castes any way like Noons, Manj, Wattoo etc. In my hometown, if you ask locals about who the Bhatti are, they say that they(bhatti) are mussali lol, as the local mussalis claim a Bhatti origin. Many christians of Sialkot also claim to be either Bhatti or Gill. And I thought Raheel was a Chib. I didn't know he was a Bhatti.

From facebook page it was clear that khokhars from potohar areas like Jhelum, Chakwal had raja surnames while from central punjab claimed to be jats. Ex-mna Mehdi Hassan Bhatti who is jat from Hafizabad look like anyother punjabi instead of chuhra/mussali.

While christian gills/bhattis i have seen look like anyother christian.

 

[Shahmir]

Actually Zac himself is developing new calculator, thats why he do not update website at all.

Oh that is interesting , do you have any idea when will he come up with his new calculator. I think he will analyse all the samples in his database with his newly developed more accurate calculator, that would be really interesting. i was also surprised that he has not updated anything on his harappadna website since May.

 

[Kabira]

Oh that is interesting , do you have any idea when will he come up with his new calculator. I think he will analyse all the samples in his database with his newly developed more accurate calculator, that would be really interesting. i was also surprised that he has not updated anything on his harappadna website since May.

No idea when, the problem anthrogenica south asian users have is that unlike Zac who have 420 participant samples. They have barely 20-25 south asian samples, mostly of members.

. From Harappa results it appears to me that punjabi Arain and Gujjars are genetically more similar to pakistani jatts as compared to rajputs.

True, going by books jats should be similar to rajputs. Even though differences in non-dalit punjabis are very little anyway.

 

[Shahmir]

No idea when, the problem anthrogenica south asian users have is that unlike Zac who have 420 participant samples. They have barely 20-25 south asian samples, mostly of members.



True, going by books jats should be similar to rajputs. Even though differences in non-dalit punjabis are very little anyway.

And interesting trend that I have noticed on harappa is that almost all of pakistani ethnicities have more caucasian component but less NE euro component that is one particular trend that is common across all pakistani provinces and also all the tribes within any province. This particular trend I always find very interesting since it is true for all the populations from hunza down to sindh. This trend is also seen even among the hindu populations from these regions who have migrated to india such as punjabi khatris and sindhi hindus etc. I always feel that there is a particular look prevalent in pakistanis that is not found in india except some khatris and sindhi hindus, might be due to this shared ancestary in ancient past.