Hindus, Muslims are separate nations: Geelani

[ardent]

baseless indian propaganda; i wont even waste my time giving you an intellectual answer to an absurd retort like that

we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The overall population of Pakistan has increased over the years..It was 39,448,232 in 1950 and 174,579,000 in 2009.But the population of minorities have significantly decrease from about 24 % in prepartition times to a mere 2 % now.Now,this is definitely not population control or family planning......

again, i'd rather not go further into this debate with you. But since you are at it, in the future please disclose the sources you use to get your numbers, facts, stats and what not

 

[ardent]

Today 8% of the population in Sindh province is Hindu.

it was 22 percent in sind before independence.



How many Muslims are left in India's part of Punjab. Before partition, Punjab was Muslim majority. Two Muslim majority districts of Punjab were awarded to India after partition, today Muslims are virtually non-existent in those areas.

only in punjab were the muslims expelled ,and to a lesser extent in bihar ,though bihar still has 14 percent muslims.

i have already admitted this.

but unlike west pakistan ,which has less than two percent hindus , muslims form 13.4 percent of india.

the point is hindus cant stay in pak ,as it is not secular ,but an islamic republic , but muslims can , and do ,stay in india as it is a secular ,not a hindu nation.

so also can kashmiris.......

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[Omar1984]

^ I already gave you a link that says many Hindus of Sindh left to India after Muhajirs came from India to settle in Sindh in 1947.

Do you think we kill Hindus in Pakistan to decrease their number to this day? Show me proof that we do that.

And I already said unlike North India, South India was always tolerant of Muslims.

North India (Punjab) has lost almost all of its Muslims.

The very beautiful and very geo-strategic North-western parts of the subcontinent (Pakistan and Kashmir) were Muslim majority areas for centuries just like our neighbouring countries to our west.

 

[ardent]

^ I already gave you a link that says many Hindus of Sindh left to India after Muhajirs came from India to settle in Sindh in 1947.

heres the link-

Partition of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it states that out of 14,00,000 hindus in sind 7,76,000 went to india.

but in india ,other than punjab ,other states did not see mass migration of muslms.


Do you think we kill Hindus in Pakistan to decrease their number to this day? Show me proof that we do that.

marey hue ko aur kitna maarogey ......?

with only 2 percent hindus left ,there are not many left to kill.......


And I already said unlike North India, South India was always tolerant of Muslims.

North India (Punjab) has lost almost all of its Muslims.

that punjab is a very small part of india , other parts of india ,indeed the vast majority of it has tolerated muslims.


The very beautiful and very geo-strategic North-western parts of the subcontinent (Pakistan and Kashmir) were Muslim majority areas for centuries just like our neighbouring countries to our west.

agreed.

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[Omar1984]

^ If other states of india did not see mass migration of Muslims, then why do we have Urdu speakers (Muhajirs) controlling Pakistan's largest city, Karachi. They did not migrate from India's part of Punjab all the way into Sindh.

 

[ardent]

^ If other states of india did not see mass migration of Muslims, then why do we have Urdu speakers (Muhajirs) controlling Pakistan's largest city, Karachi. They did not migrate from India's part of Punjab all the way into Sindh.

the migration of mohajirs was not mass migration ,the way it happened in indian and pakistani punjab ,and sind .

muslims in small numbers from other parts of india went to pakistan excited by the prospect of an islamic state.

but unlike in sind and punjab ,where the ethnic composition of the provinces was significantly affected ,in other parts of india ,the ethnic composition was not affected significantly.

but india ,even without pakistan ,is still a huge country ,and when these small numbers from each state came together in karachi , they formed a large number for a single city.

 

[r3alist]

looking at the treatment of minorities its fair to say hindu's and non-hindu's cannot live with one another.

i wish india would just declare itself a hindu state and stop pretending - you indians basically play semantics and word games when sometimes india is a hindu country i.e. ayodah verdict and then when it comes human rights and kashmir india is a secular nation.

 

[Tshering22]

Can the Mods just shut the stupid thread? Because it is creating religious sensitivity and irritation to both sides.

 

[Tshering22]

looking at the treatment of minorities its fair to say hindu's and non-hindu's cannot live with one another.

i wish india would just declare itself a hindu state and stop pretending - you indians basically play semantics and word games when sometimes india is a hindu country i.e. ayodah verdict and then when it comes human rights and kashmir india is a secular nation.

Don't you do that? I mean otherwise you keep calling yourself an Islamic country, but when we point out rights violations to minorities in your country; you start showing videos of YouTube where one or two minority members speak their self out.

Why does it hurt you when we use your plan?

 

[ardent]

looking at the treatment of minorities its fair to say hindu's and non-hindu's cannot live with one another.

i could say the same about muslims and non -muslims


i wish india would just declare itself a hindu state and stop pretending - you indians basically play semantics and word games when sometimes india is a hindu country i.e. ayodah verdict and then when it comes human rights and kashmir india is a secular nation.

ayodhya verdict was not given by the state.

it was given by a court ,which included a muslim judge out of three judges.

..............................

 

[r3alist]

Don't you do that? I mean otherwise you keep calling yourself an Islamic country, but when we point out rights violations to minorities in your country; you start showing videos of YouTube where one or two minority members speak their self out.

Why does it hurt you when we use your plan?

who would be so distasteful as to call it a "plan"?

i take such flagrant disregard of basic rights seriously - but then its not me who calls it trolling and spamming - and its not me who says that the people in kashmir deserve the violence they get and deserve no sympathy - thats what indians do to their so called fellow countrymen

 

[nForce]

^ I already gave you a link that says many Hindus of Sindh left to India after Muhajirs came from India to settle in Sindh in 1947.

Do you think we kill Hindus in Pakistan to decrease their number to this day? Show me proof that we do that.

And I already said unlike North India, South India was always tolerant of Muslims.

North India (Punjab) has lost almost all of its Muslims.

The very beautiful and very geo-strategic North-western parts of the subcontinent (Pakistan and Kashmir) were Muslim majority areas for centuries just like our neighbouring countries to our west.

Okay...thats alright..
Now,the Hindu population of Pakistan was around 24 % at the time of partition.As per the 1961 census of Bangladesh,or the then East Pakistan,the population of Hindus there was 18.5 %.Note that the population of East Pakistan itself was less than that of the West.And I even took the data of 1961 that does not consider the genocide and exodus of the Hindus that occurred in the 1970s in East Pakistan.
So,if we go by simple statistics,the percentage of population of Hindus in West Pakistan or present Pakistan should increase or at least stay the same even after partition of Pakistan,as along with the Hindus,a significant number of Muslims were also removed from the total population of Pakistan after its partition.
But what we now see is the total population of Hindus in Pakistan is a mere 1.6 %.Simple maths.....
So,the question is,what happened??

Sources:
1

2

3

 

[bc040400065]

Well,I consider myself honoured.....

Now,we look at this grave issue called Kashmir,which has practically been a thorn between India-Pakistan relations since the creation of both the nations.

I have an idea which may sound funny to you,but I consider it much more realistic.
Now before I share that idea,let me tell you,that there has been sporadic movements in Indian Kashmir which are directed towards independence,not towards being united with Pakistan.'Azadi' or 'Freedom' as the people involved in the movement call it.

Having said that,it is the two states,India and Pakistan which are locked in this epic battle for the land.Notice that now it becomes a state affair,more like a battle for honour.

Now no political party in India really wants to commit the greatest political suicide of the century by giving up Kashmir to Pakistan.Similarly,no governing body in Pakistan wants to disgrace itself in front of the whole nation of Pakistan by giving up its claim on Kasmir in its entirety.

What happens as a result ??? Pakistan keeps spending a hell lot of resources and man power trying to get hold of the land.There has been atleast two wars and one skirmish based on that.India,in turn spends a hell lot of resources trying to protect the same piece of land,maintains a high troop presence,does border fencing with electronic monitoring for protection against infiltration etc. etc.

So,in the end,both the nations loose a lot of money,resources,manpower and not to mention,precious lives over an issue,which is practically a stalemate.

With the current scenario,neither India can claim over entire Kashmir,nor Pakistan.
So what is the solution??Well,there is no solution to unite Kashmir back to the way it was in pre-partition times.The best way not to do any further damages is leave the situation the way it is now....Thats the only practical solution that comes to my mind.
Let people have peace.No terrorists,no army,no AFSPA,no politics over who had what,how things were before,how it should be now.

We just simply need to stop pursuing the issue.Its like beating the dead horse!!

I think some Indian diplomat popped this idea before,that is to convert LOC into International border,a live and let live kind of approach.But then the idea was nowhere near to be materialized.....

Well thanks for nice reply. I think every one knows that situation is taking us no where. So what to do now. I think a joint control of valley can be a solution. with india keeping jamu and ladakh and pakistan keeping GB and AJK. few months back i suggested in India Pakistan water dispute thread that both countries can even go for joint power project on rivers. Both will have the control on flow of water and will benefit with power generation as both are facing power shortage.
But i must open heartedly tell you that its gets realy worse when some members have nothing else to do than show hatred towards Pakistan , How one can accept a sound relationship then?

 

[bc040400065]

Okay...thats alright..
Now,the Hindu population of Pakistan was around 24 % at the time of partition.As per the 1961 census of Bangladesh,or the then East Pakistan,the population of Hindus there was 18.5 %.Note that the population of East Pakistan itself was less than that of the West.And I even took the data of 1961 that does not consider the genocide and exodus of the Hindus that occurred in the 1970s in East Pakistan.
So,if we go by simple statistics,the percentage of population of Hindus in West Pakistan or present Pakistan should increase or at least stay the same even after partition of Pakistan,as along with the Hindus,a significant number of Muslims were also removed from the total population of Pakistan after its partition.
But what we now see is the total population of Hindus in Pakistan is a mere 1.6 %.Simple maths.....
So,the question is,what happened??

Sources:
1

2

3

yaar there havnt been a single anti hindu riot in Pakistan. i wrote in one of my above post that Muslim population has increased way too fast.