Hindus, Muslims are separate nations: Geelani

[bc040400065]

Independence and ascesion to Pak apart.....something that is a distant dream

If Geelani is actually so "popular" among the Kashmiris (compared to Abdullah), why doesnt he opt to run for the state elections and form a govt in Kashmir?

At least this can help mitigate some of the law and order situation in the region....maybe not revoke the armed forces special powers act, but at least limit the casualties due to stone pelting since he will have the state police and the stone pelters alike in his power.....

I fail to understand why leaders like Geelani have not opted for the political route to get at least some of their genuine demands....

Why should he run for state elections?? why?? They want freedom its as simple as that. you should know one thing, there is something called Heart in human beings, and if kashmiris heart don't want to be Indian no one can supress or force them.

 

[Peshwa]

Why should he run for state elections?? why?? They want freedom its as simple as that. you should know one thing, there is something called Heart in human beings, and if kashmiris heart don't want to be Indian no one can supress or force them.

Please....lets not get into this emotional mumbo-jumbo....Politics and strategic discussions are not made from the heart they are made from the mind....

And just because somebody does not want to be part of a nation does not warrant creating a new country.....how many such countries are we going to create?

And I have made this argument before....If "heart" and "Kashmiris dont want to be Indian" is used as a basis to create a new state....then I have to throw back the argument wrt. Balochistan.....a lot of people there dont consider themselves Pakistani.....so what makes Kashmiris so special that freedom is a must for them and not for other secessionist movements worldwide or your country....Freedom is equally valuable to a Balochi as it is to Kashmiri.....
When the world starts creating new countries or give up their claim over lands based on the argument you've provided, then you can come request the Indians to do the same....until then...we stand by our position...

As with all such cases, Kashmir is a political movement and has to be dealt with similarly....Simple!

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Now after the recent mismanagement of the Riots and the deaths resulting in a complete pr mess for the GOI , Geelani 's comments should come as a welcome sign , and with the intense media scrutiny on the deaths and excessive security presence in the valley and the public in general clamoring to do something about it .....Geelani has unwittingly strengthened the Govt's position among the Indian people . No matter how moderate and tolerant of dissent the average Indian is.....after hearing geelani's outdated and medieval rant , irrespective of Hindu or Muslim they will forcefully support the removal of exceptions and greater integration of kashmir with India.

Now the GOI has a reason in iron to refute all voices on Kashmir advocating so called "azaadi " as it is clearly being seen as "fundamentalist rule"...the oppression of radical ideologies in S.Asia ....and now we should use this statement on every international stage to make our case about the vested interests under the guise of Separatism .....

 

[bc040400065]

So Muslims and Hindus cant live in the same nation,according to you.Thats the whole point of the ideology that you support.But,since Hindus are minoroty in Pakistan,hence they can be ignored or over ruled.They dont feature in your ideology anymore.But again,the very same ideology applies in case of the Indian Muslims...

How very convenient!!!!!

There goes your ideology down the drain..reasons being simple enough,it provides room for unfair discrimination of human beings..Come up with something better next time,or at first divide your own nation based on religion,then we may consider talking to you based on your ideology.

BTW,from what I know,there is significant Christian population in Pakistan as well.Yousuf Youhana,a cricketer in Pakistani cricket team,was a Christian.So what about them??Separate nation for them as well???

You simply ignored my whole post and just targeted the minority line. i clearly said Hindus in pakistan don't have any issue being pakistani and they are happy to live here and have all the right of a full citizen and thats what Islam teaches.2nd as i have seen in this forum that no matter what real proof you have it is just time wasting to discuss any thing with an indian member. you people are just full of hatred and pakistan bashing is a routine matter. India and Pakistan can never be friends.

 

[ardent]

You simply ignored my whole post and just targeted the minority line. i clearly said Hindus in pakistan don't have any issue being pakistani and they are happy to live here and have all the right of a full citizen and thats what Islam teaches.2nd as i have seen in this forum that no matter what real proof you have it is just time wasting to discuss any thing with an indian member. you people are just full of hatred and pakistan bashing is a routine matter. India and Pakistan can never be friends.

then why were the hindus kicked out of pakistan at the time of partition??

from 15 percent of pakistan's population before partition , they fell to barely 2 percent after it.

in contrast , though there were riots in punjab and bihar , in most of india the muslims were allowed to stay .

 

[bandit]

i clearly said Hindus in pakistan don't have any issue being pakistani and they are happy to live here and have all the right of a full citizen and thats what Islam teaches2nd as i have seen in this forum that no matter what real proof you have it is just time wasting to discuss any thing with an indian member. you people are just full of hatred and pakistan bashing is a routine matter. India and Pakistan can never be friends.

Oh yeah right, Pakistani hindus are suppressed constitutionally for being hindus. Talk about minority prosecution.

PART III
The Federation of Pakistan
Chapter 1. THE PRESIDENT
41. The President.
(1) There shall be a President of Pakistan who shall be the Head of State and shall represent the unity of the Republic.

(2) A person shall not be qualified for election as President unless he is a Muslim of not less than forty-five years of age and is qualified to be elected as member of the National Assembly.

[Chapter 1: The President] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]

 

[The HBS Guy]

You simply ignored my whole post and just targeted the minority line. i clearly said Hindus in pakistan don't have any issue being pakistani and they are happy to live here and have all the right of a full citizen and thats what Islam teaches.2nd as i have seen in this forum that no matter what real proof you have it is just time wasting to discuss any thing with an indian member. you people are just full of hatred and pakistan bashing is a routine matter. India and Pakistan can never be friends.

Can a Pakistani hindu aspire to become the PM or the President or the army chief?

Please do not reply to my post if your answer is NO because a NO means they are nothing more than second-class citizens.

 

[nForce]

You simply ignored my whole post and just targeted the minority line. i clearly said Hindus in pakistan don't have any issue being pakistani and they are happy to live here and have all the right of a full citizen and thats what Islam teaches.2nd as i have seen in this forum that no matter what real proof you have it is just time wasting to discuss any thing with an indian member. you people are just full of hatred and pakistan bashing is a routine matter. India and Pakistan can never be friends.

okay... just calm down a bit here....

In one hand you say,that people of different religion must have different nations.On the other hand you are not willing to accept the same for Pakistan.Now thats a flawed argument,right???

This is basically a discussion forum.When you express a point of view and the argument behind it is flawed,then somebody down the line will question that argument, right???Now that does not really amount to bashing....I know,some people are there who do some bashing indiscriminately,but then you cannot generalize at the same time.That would be a mistake followed by another mistake.

And why do you take that negative approach??Why do you think India and Pakistan can never be friends??Friendships can made at grass root level between individuals for a start.I can be your friend.Would you like to be mine???I extend my hand forward........

 

[bc040400065]

then why were the hindus kicked out of pakistan at the time of partition??

from 15 percent of pakistan's population before partition , they fell to barely 2 percent after it.

in contrast , though there were riots in punjab and bihar , in most of india the muslims were allowed to stay .

there were 1 million muslims massacred at the time of partition so please don't try to rewrite your own version of history.
2nd they were 15 % in United pakistan including east pakistan now bangladesh where they are about 20% of whole population. But after 1971 in present day pakistan they are not even 1% and its not because they were forced to leave but it is because most of hindus were in east Pakistan, so now they are not included in Pakistani current stats. Another fact is that muslims in Pakistan are still reluctant to go for family planning and that is why muslims share in population has increased in present day pakistan.
But having told you all this i know it would not have any real affect and you will continue with normal Pakistan bashing.

 

[nForce]

Can a Pakistani hindu aspire to become the PM or the President or the army chief?

Please do not reply to my post if your answer is NO because a NO means they are nothing more than second-class citizens.

The post for President is reserved for a Muslim in Pakistan.I am not sure about the PM or the Army Chief.But I know at least one Hindu who served as the Chief Justice of Pakistan,during the tenure of Pervez Musharraf.His name is Rana Bhagwandas.

More about Rana Bhagwandas

 

[The HBS Guy]

^^ No sir. Anything less than head of the nation means they are not considered fit to lead the nation in effect implying that they are second class citizens!

They are considered inferior to muslims when it comes to leading the country and hence they are perfectly qualified to be addressed as second class citizens.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

what criminal behaviour is he guilty of? As far as I know, he has always advocated non-violent means to achieve full Kashmiri freedom

Regarding armed militancy, one needs to understand its purpose. The militant movement has as its goal the resolution of the Kashmir issue. Every militant holds his life dearest, yet they are dying for the cause of Kashmir. But if that goal could be achieved through peaceful means why should the militants lay down their lives?

his underlying position is that Kashmir should be treated as disputed territory

bottom line....

India has to accept that Kashmir is a disputed territory and has to engage in negotiations with both Pakistan and the true representatives of the people of Kashmir for the resolution of the issue in the light of its historical background, the commitments made by Indian leaders and the resolutions of the United Nations.

The ball is in India's court. If India accepts, there would not be any further armed struggle.

as for campaigns, Hurriyet boycotted elections simply because they did not want to participate in a process where hindustan was the official ''overseer''; especially at a time when the intifada was on the rise and near-daily curfews were the reality of the day

 

[bc040400065]

okay... just calm down a bit here....

In one hand you say,that people of different religion must have different nations.On the other hand you are not willing to accept the same for Pakistan.Now thats a flawed argument,right???

This is basically a discussion forum.When you express a point of view and the argument behind it is flawed,then somebody down the line will question that argument, right???Now that does not really amount to bashing....I know,some people are there who do some bashing indiscriminately,but then you cannot generalize at the same time.That would be a mistake followed by another mistake.

And why do you take that negative approach??Why do you think India and Pakistan can never be friends??Friendships can made at grass root level between individuals for a start.I can be your friend.Would you like to be mine???I extend my hand forward........

i happily accept your offer of friendship. i don't have india hate phobia. i just want poeple to accept and respect others right to live and i think kashmiris also deserve this right.

 

[nForce]

^^ No sir. Anything less than head of the nation means they are not considered fit to lead the nation in effect implying that they are second class citizens!

They are considered inferior to muslims when it comes to leading the country and hence they are perfectly qualified to be addressed as second class citizens.

ohh alright..In any case,I was not drawing any conclusions here.Its a whole different country with a different approach altogether.Let them do what they see fit.I was just stating the facts.Can anybody throw some light about the posts of the PM or Army Chief by the way???

 

[The HBS Guy]

ohh alright..In any case,I was not drawing any conclusions here.Its a whole different country with a different approach altogether.Let them do what they see fit.I was just stating the facts.Can anybody throw some light about the posts of the PM or Army Chief by the way???

Of course it's their country and they can run it the way they want but then they should also not claim that Pakistani Hindus have 'equal rights just like any other citizen' when in fact they don't.

And since pakistani hindus are treated as second class citizens as I proved above, hence it implies they are well within their right to seek a separate state for themselves under the two-nation theory which led to the formation of Pakistan.

Pakistan was formed because some people felt that Hindus would treat muslims as second-class citizens in an independent and united India.

'm only extending this logic to Pakistani hindus and hence it becomes evident that they also have a right to demand a seperate state for themselves under the two-nation theory.