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Has the army learned its lesson?

So it was only ONE person who created the country and could have run it?

Heh. No.

What happened on either side of the new, bleeding border was opposite.

Nehru, and many others of the top leadership of the Congress, had played a mean, spoiling role during those dark days of July 1946. We all know of their fearful reneging on the accord with the delegation and with the Muslim League, for not entirely understood reasons - perhaps for fear of the obstructive tactics of the Muslim League, and a consequent desire to be rid of that party in their new India, perhaps for Nehru's discomfort with Jinnah, who represented all that he, personally, was not.

As Prime Minister, however, in new India, he played a spectacular role in all situations but one, Kashmir, until 1960. He was the calming influence, he was fatherly, soothing, pacifying and compassionate. He protected the flame of democracy, scrupulously leaned away from misuse of his charismatic hold on the people, and allowed the opposition room to breathe, tiny and insignificant as it was.

He also firmly set in place the secular character of the country.

Alongside him, Patel supplied the counterpoint, which is not to denigrate the roles of other members of the Cabinet. Perhaps Patel's greatest test, and greatest achievement, was the integration of the princely states with British India; he never lived to see the next consequential change, the linguistic reform of the Indian states.

I mention only these two, but a Cabinet with figures in it like Maulana Azad, Jagjivan Ram, and Rafi Ahmed Kidwai, and even Quixotic inclusions like well-known opponents of the Congress Ambedkar, Shyama Prasad Mukherji, and Shanmukha Chettiar, was no collection of rubber stamps.

It is this collective leadership, spearheaded by two outstanding personalities, who gave us a boost, and it is Pakistan's bad fortune that her leadership did not come together in similar fashion, that she had no second tier leadership after Jinnah, like India did after Gandhi, to pick up the thread and run. In a way, credit must be given to Gandhi, too, for permitting such a collection of stellar talent to come together under the Congress banner.
 
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So it was only ONE person who created the country and could have run it?

Not one person per se.. but the one man who was truly capable of embodying popular leadership through his own efforts. There were other ideal in Suhawardy and certain other genuine leagers. But as such, they were almost immediately sidelined by the Punjab feudal and their political sharks. These leaders from what is now Pakistan were more interested in person gains from Pakistan as the events after 47 and later showed and had more business ideas in mind rather than any humanitarian principles. Jinnah was the wave they decided to latch on to but knew that he would be a barrier in their later plans. Hence, he was a liability to be laid rest to as soon as this ripe land was obtained. A Witness to this is none other than Jinnah's sister.. who writes quite vividly of our so called Shaheed First PM Liaqat Ali Khan and his glee in seeing Jinnah's health deteriorating.
 
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I believe a Nation founded on the basis of Religion had to embrace it's founding cause sooner or later. Democracy and Theocracy cannot coexist in the same set-up.

What ails Pakistan is the erosion of it's traditionally moderate form of Islam, continually eroded and replaced by hardline stances imported from S.Arabia. But then, If it were not for it's enmity with India, I don't think hardline Islam would ever have flourished in Pakistan like it has now.
 
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The question of the silent majority has already been answered. It is a silent majority that has the case of a major Stockholm syndrome. It now sympathizes with the cause of its captors. And if Talibanization, complete extremism do come.. Pakistanis will willingly accept it. The elite will find ways around it to survive while the rest of us will quietly suffer away. This nation has had it in terms of opportunities for improvement and what is to follow is nothing short of horror. Perhaps , it is in this context that a balkanization of Pakistan may not be a bad idea after all; saving whatever sections are possible from extremist ideals. Because the PA is as such left neutered in this scenario, they need support from the people to do anything; and when there is little of that they will too end up as silent spectators at best and total disarray at worst.

Indeed a deep philosophical thought and a very interesting and novel idea - to save Pakistan from extremism break it up so that Sindh, Punjab, Balochistan and KPK or whatever remains thereof, can be saved.
 
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Indeed a deep philosophical thought and a very interesting and novel idea - to save Pakistan from extremism break it up so that Sindh, Punjab, Balochistan and KPK or whatever remains thereof, can be saved.

Janab, your sarcasm is sounding more like genuine approval here. You gotta get better at this:partay:
 
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We've just run out of marmalade, so -

Gall and wormwood, anyone?
 
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ooh ooh our own local and foreign based conscientious objectors, licking fingers with dancing tongues, and Anglo Indian aunties exhorting the children of Israel – alas there ain’t no Jordan river here
 
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ooh ooh our own local and foreign based conscientious objectors, licking fingers with dancing tongues, and Anglo Indian aunties exhorting the children of Israel – alas there ain’t no Jordan river here
In fact that is the subject here... hss the army learned anything from the past?
 
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I hardly bother with Ayaz Amir anymore. He has a way with words, has a particular thinking, but despite his ease with words and philosophy, he has lost his way. He could have been a person of political consequence in current administration, but he was never comfortable with PML-N despite being a part of it for such a long time. He gambled for PTI, but was rebuffed. Now he is reduced to writing columns and lamenting at things all around.

I understand where he is coming from, but alas he is out of touch. 90% Pakistanis frown upon alcohol consumption. 2% who drink cry about hypocrisy sometimes, without openly coming out in support of legalizing alcohol. Ayaz Amir is one of the rare ones who did openly complain about prohibition. Apparently he thought that everyone drinks and so it would be hypocritical to continue with prohibition. That just showed how out of touch he had become. Moving in elitist circles does that.

So, he lost it. He has been relegated to sidelines. He is out of touch, and matters only to chattering classes. Why take him seriously?

Changing gear, it would be of interest to consider all the alternatives that did not actually happen, but quite pointless. Pakistan being largely a reaction, had to go through trial by fire. It has survived so far, and shall continue to do so IMO. Its just that all the really complicated issues and hard choices that were avoided must now be confronted. We can not evolve into an organic entity unless we do that.


I believe a Nation founded on the basis ofReligion had to embrace it's founding cause sooner or later. Democracy and Theocracy cannot coexist in the same set-up.

What ails Pakistan is the erosion of it's traditionally moderate form of Islam, continually eroded and replaced by hardline stances imported from S.Arabia. But then, If it were not for it's enmity with India, I don't think hardline Islam would ever have flourished in Pakistan like it has now.

Rather simplistic analysis that begins with a binary choice without considering history & diversity of democracy, of Muslims, and Pakistan's experience thus far.

Hardliners have had their day. They have reached their limits. There is not much farther that they can go. Pakistan's government has already begun the process to address different challenges, though it is hard to notice right now. As @jaibi has opined, we need small steps. PML-N has a glacial pace when it comes to change, and though many find it disappointing, I am glad that it is indeed so. Pakistan has too many challenges for now, and after disastrous Musharraf and Zardari governments, we need to slow but sure reforms. I can see the beginnings of necessary reforms and after a few months changes would be more visible.

Had Pakistan been an artificial country, it would have broken by now. The fact that it has not, means that there is more to it than some are willing to consider.
 
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Opinion
Has the army learned its lesson?
Islamabad diary
Ayaz Amir
Friday, November 15, 2013


11-15-2013_214490_l_akb.jpg
Is the army happy now? When you play with fire and ride the dragon’s back it’s too much to hope that once you try to get down the fire will not scorch you. For 30 years the army has played at ‘jihad’ and held in a tight embrace elements like the Jamaat-e-Islami, considering them as knights of the faith, ghazis of Islam. Now these same elements have bitten the hand that has fed them for so long.

Nations can disagree with the wars they fight. There was opposition in the United States to the Vietnam War. There was fierce opposition both in the US and the UK to the invasion of Iraq. In Pakistan there is a better appraisal of what the army did in East Pakistan in 1970-71. But no nation with any notion of self-respect or honour insults its soldiers, the way the Jamaat chief has done, and the way that other mufti of the faith, Fazlur Rehman, has done by calling the Taliban dead the righteous dead and insulting the memory of our fallen soldiers by implying that they died on the wrong side of righteousness.

This is a society steeped in religiosity. People here take the concept of shahadat (martyrdom) very seriously. Our army, for the most part, is a peasant army, its strength drawn from northern Punjab and the Pakthtun belt. When our soldiers, officers and men, go into battle they are sustained by the conviction that they are fighting not only for Pakistan but for Islam. When they fall in battle they say, their families say, it is the will of God, fortitude and fatalism going hand in hand…that what will be, will be, it’s all written in the stars.

So for anyone to question their martyrdom, as Munawar Hasan of the Jamaat has done, and for anyone to bestow the title of martyr on their enemies is the greatest insult of all. This is the Jamaat and it’s getting away with it. Just imagine if such a thing had slipped from the mouth of a PPP leader. The Jamaat would have been on the warpath. Since it is the Jamaat, one of our custodians of holiness, the reaction, while strong in some quarters, has not been as intense as it would have been if a ‘secular’ leader had uttered the offending words.

Look also at the crocodile tears of the ruling party, the PML-N, silent for several days after Munawar Hasan’s outburst, not a squeak from its side, and waking up from its meaningful stupor only after the army’s information wing, ISPR, came out with its statement taking the Jamaat amir to task. Only then did PM Nawaz Sharif remember that the fallen dead of the army were the nation’s ‘benefactors’. Thori der kar dee mehrban aate aate.

How well-controlled on this occasion is the anger of our trading classes, a mighty political force in today’s Islamic Republic. No streamers have gone up in Lahore denouncing the Jamaat chief.

If we are not a sick society already we are fast turning into one. If a person can be shot by his own official bodyguard on the false charge of blasphemy – Salmaan Taseer uttered not a blasphemous word – and if his killer can be called a hero of Islam, and if lawyers garland that hero and religious parties hold huge demonstrations in his support, then someone coming from outer space and witnessing what we do would be hard put to testify to our sanity.

But for the army to ponder is this: that much as it may be upset by the anti-shahadat babbling of the Jamaat chief, the peculiar atmosphere prevailing in Pakistan, the winds not just of intolerance but sheer stupidity blowing across the national landscape, have much to do with the army’s own policies and preoccupations. The maulvis and assorted holy fathers were nothing. They were just instruments in the army’s hands. The army showed the way, mapped out the geography of ‘jihad’, and the holy fathers, under army tutelage, became the nuisance that we now see them to be.

Mustafa Kemal at the head of the Turkish army swept away the cobwebs of the past, smashed old superstitions, and created a new nation. Pakistan’s secular elites, led by the army, created new superstitions and instead of taking Pakistan into the future, pushed it back, into the hole in which we now find ourselves.

The holy fathers played second fiddle to the army and the secular elites. And now, to no one’s surprise except ours, the holy fathers, and assorted Munawar Hasans, are in the ideological vanguard and the ruling elites, too scared to take a stand on anything worth fighting for, tremble and quake before the trumpet blasts of the holy right. If this is how they are against paper tigers how do we expect them to perform against the real stuff, the Taliban?

So the question is not whether their holy nuisances, lords of the pulpit and the loudspeaker – the latter once considered an invention of the devil, now first in their list of weapons – will change their stripes. Who cares about that? The question is whether the army is capable of discarding the so-lovingly nurtured shibboleths of the past and changing its thinking.

Before Pakistan can emerge from the mists of obscurantist thinking, before it can put the demons of intolerance and sheer stupidity to rest, it is the army which has to change its spots. If it can’t do that we are doomed. The Republic’s sword-arm is the army. Let there be no doubt about that. Therefore, before Pakistan’s reformation – whether it takes a Luther to bring it about or an Ataturk – the army must reform itself.

The task is not easy. Look even at the ISPR statement. While castigating Munawar Hasan it praises the Jamaat’s founder, Maulana Maudoodi, for “his services to Islam”. What services to Islam? Is this the army’s knowledge of Pakistan’s history? Mauduooi opposed the creation of Pakistan and denounced Jinnah. There is an extensive literature on the subject but let just one quote from Maudoodi’s ‘Muslims and the Present Political Turmoil’ suffice: “Pity! From League’s Quaid-e-Azam down to the lower cadres there is not a single person who has an Islamic outlook and whose perspective on matters is Islamic.”

Al-Qaeda’s ideology has been influenced by Maududi’s writings. The seeds of intolerance and bigotry in the country created by Jinnah were sown by Maudoodi and the Jamaat-e-Islami. Indeed, the Jamaat was the inventor of danda-bardar – lathi-bearing – Islam. The Taliban have gone a crucial step further and become the Janissaries of Kalashnikov-Islam. It’s a difference of degree, not substance. And the army had a hand in these transformations. Not surprisingly, Gen Zia was a fervent admirer of the Maulana and his brand of Islam. And for Pakistan’s passage into the dark ages we know how much we owe Gen Zia. If, oblivious of all this, the ISPR can still bring itself to idolise Maudoodi’s services to Islam then perhaps the time may have come to abandon all hope.

This martyrdom debate has been a good thing. It has helped clarify some matters, unless of course we have lost the ability to think clearly and are past the point of no return. The physician should have a clearer idea of the demons he helped create. But can the physician now heal himself? This is the most important question of all.

Tailpiece: And I had almost forgotten about Mullah Naseeruddin Haqqani. Now what explanation will we give regarding his presence in Islamabad? The skeletons in our cupboards.

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Desperate column from a desperate man who has failed in every thing every force in the world has its non military friends in different countries to protect their interests their only problem is with Islam they use words like Mullah and other things to abuse Islam so that is why they don't get any importance
 
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It is better to debate the substance rather than the person. If you feel what is being said in the article is wrong, then please care to explain so that others may think about it too.

if this same logic of yours is applicable to ayaz ameer then in the same way it is definitely applicable to Zaid Hamid as well ... ?! :coffee: Isn't it ... !? :azn: Or should i say it your "Dam DuaL Standard" ... ?! :crazy:

So why the hell you people curse Zaid Hamid instead of what he says rather ?!? ... :pissed:
Think about it ... :smokin:
:pakistan:
 
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Desperate column from a desperate man who has failed in every thing every force in the world has its non military friends in different countries to protect their interests their only problem is with Islam they use words like Mullah and other things to abuse Islam so that is why they don't get any importance

Why is everything about Mullah, Islam, Jihad with you? Do you not have a life? Or is your life so simply meaningless that you latch onto religion to cover the deep gaping hole in your existence?

Wtf man. He did not abuse Islam, you think he abused it, just like I believe you abuse Islam. I believe you have a special place in Hell, I'm pretty sure you do too, something similar. Such is our religion, so easy to misuse and place the blame on people. Our religion needed more Prophets to keep people like us from dividing into sects.
 
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Had Pakistan been an artificial country, it would have broken by now. The fact that it has not, means that there is more to it than some are willing to consider.

The problem is not with the concept, or artificiality.. it is that an artificial legend was created around it. Yes, Pakistan was created on 14th August or the 27th of Ramadan(and not a reincarnation of some long lost ancient civilization) and yes I do truly believe it was a gift from god. But the narratives being created in order to give it some fake identity are more damaging to its existence and social fabric rather than acknowledge its sub-continent roots.
 
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Why is everything about Mullah, Islam, Jihad with you? Do you not have a life? Or is your life so simply meaningless that you latch onto religion to cover the deep gaping hole in your existence?

Wtf man. He did not abuse Islam, you think he abused it, just like I believe you abuse Islam. I believe you have a special place in Hell, I'm pretty sure you do too, something similar. Such is our religion, so easy to misuse and place the blame on people. Our religion needed more Prophets to keep people like us from dividing into sects.
Islam is a complete way of life don't need anything else Mr but those dunked secular liberal dumbos they are always busy in their drinking parties and getting drunk and talking shit and only promoting evils in society and being obedient slaves of USA and India that is only purpose of life and also of their supporters Pakistan Army only needs to one thing get rid of Musharraf disastrous policies and talk to our own people and take out drones and stop Nato supply other wise they will only loose support among people they along with political leadership needs to send strong message to USA and NATO

The problem is not with the concept, or artificiality.. it is that an artificial legend was created around it. Yes, Pakistan was created on 14th August or the 27th of Ramadan(and not a reincarnation of some long lost ancient civilization) and yes I do truly believe it was a gift from god. But the narratives being created in order to give it some fake identity are more damaging to its existence and social fabric rather than acknowledge its sub-continent roots.
Sir only problem yes it was created on 27th of Ramadan and yes their are signs that it is from ALLAH but we need to implement Islam fully and so called sub continent roots if we had to attach to that than their was no need of getting separated from India that was the reason we separated from India Sir what we need to do is educate people about Islam and also what Iqbal thoughts were and implement laws and stop following USA orders blindly
 
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The problem is not with the concept, or artificiality.. it is that an artificial legend was created around it. Yes, Pakistan was created on 14th August or the 27th of Ramadan(and not a reincarnation of some long lost ancient civilization) and yes I do truly believe it was a gift from god. But the narratives being created in order to give it some fake identity are more damaging to its existence and social fabric rather than acknowledge its sub-continent roots.

I agree with you, And that is why I feel disappointed that people associated with the formation of Pakistan did not instead change the narrative to one of "Hopes and Aspirations". That would have given the populace a "reason to look forward towards something rather than reasons to keep turning their backs on something".
Instead that old narrative of "Fears and Apprehensions" was continued with. Which in turn needed a constant creation of Threat(s).
"Yeh khatrey mein hain; woh khatrey mein hain"; that refrain can only work so much; Paranoia can provide only so much Horse-Power. Then people begin to see threats behind every tree and finally confusion reigns supreme.

And if the sub-continental roots were inconvenient to acknowledge; it was better to down-play them than to deny them. That in turn led to prodigious and absurd attempts to contrive and manufacture a Heritage . That caused even more confusion.
That kind of effort took place on the other side too; with humongous efforts to Sanskritize - Hindi; which is an evolved amalgam in the first place. Fortunately people kept their heads on their shoulders and persisted with the use of karkhana rather than yantrashala. Just as they stilll call a man an 'Engineer' rather than a yantrik.

Luckily; whether by design or by accident, Indian leaders threw up "Hopes and Aspirations" even though they conjured up an imaginary (socialistic egalitarian) Paradise as part of that. But that "looking forward" worked more positively than obsessively trying to turn our backs on British Colonialism or trying to disown the Mughal Empire before that. Just as it will be foolish to propagate the idea that "China is an existential threat to India". Fortunately India and China are trading commodities and products instead of bullets and shells. That has not hurt either party!
 
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