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Has democracy really failed in Pakistan?

You don't have British-style democracy. Britain has a monarch. While the Queen cannot give commands or make laws, she is not completely powerless: she has the right of unlimited review of the bureaucracy, up to and including the prime minister. She knows every secret she wants to know. She can expose any wrongdoing she finds - though in the "old boy" system dismissal or early retirement is more likely than the mess hitting the newspaper. Since she isn't elected and is independently wealthy she is difficult to corrupt with either money or popularity.
The checks and balances provided by the Queen (as exercised through her governor-generals) is something Pakistan sacrificed when it decided to become a republic rather than a constitutional monarchy. Immediately, corruption of all sorts had a green light: full speed ahead!
The sad reality, however, is that King George VI yielded to Jinnah's blandishments and compliantly appointed prominent Pakistani politicians as governor-generals, men who naturally had little or no interest in neutrally exercising the functions of independent review, as the governor-general of Canada does. (The current Canadian governor-general is a prominent academic, specializing in financial law.)
Most Commonwealth countries have exactly British-style democracy where the PM is not elected directly by the public, but chosen from a party who have won majority of seats in the parliament. Forget about the queen, she is useless and just kept as a figurative Head of State. Just like we have a President.
And my point was that we need to elect the person directly holding the power, not a party.
 
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Simply


Simply BS - India was ridiculed for its 'Hindu growth of rate' (no sarcasm, they actually called it that) till mid 90's. So where is the 'Indian masses become economically and socially free' part? Caste-ism was being practised in the most barbaric fashion for most of this time. Analysts consider the uneven distribution of wealth one of the biggest threats to the system and with crony capitalism it will only grow.

It's quite surprising that you will ignore the misery of your own people just to convince readers that you are doing better then Pakistan.

[Lols @ Moorosiat, what is Gandhi/ Nehru dynasty? India actually has more moorosiat in their politics then Pakistan]

In any case the thread is on Pakistan and lets keep it on that. You can flaunt your fantasy success stories in some other thread.
well we indians atleast controled and abolished the evils of castesism and discrimination on babsis of caste ...for your information like pakistan today in india you cant use caste names like Banya= buisnessman, bhangi=sweeper, nai=barber,mochi=cobbler and so on

lolzzz owr most famous politicians like modi, mayawati, mulayam singh yadav, lallu P yadav, ram vilas paswan , sushil kumar shinde, AK antony ,nitish kumar and many ruling politicians right now are so called low caste

we even made muslims head of owr state more than couple of times like maulana azad and APJ abdul kalam , hehehehe and you brag about indias record in autocracies against minorities and so called "low castes" but very easli ignoare how many great leaders, buisnessmen, players, cine artists,technocrats and other professionals make it big while in look at the condition of shias, ahmedies , christians, hindus and other low caste people



bhaio mere Hindustan pe tankid kerne se pehle apna ghar dekh lo "jinke ghar sheeshe ke hote hain wo auron pe patthar nahi fainkte"

the thread was about is pakistan a true democracy the answer is its not even a democracy its a feudal land ruled by feudals who play musical chairs in name of democracy and are using and abusing all the resources of pakistan and sucking the blood owt of avrage pakistanies and are never asked any questions while in india if there is a corrupt politician say like lallu who ruled bihar for 15 years is thrown in jail ...jani hamare me aur tumhare me bahut faraq hai neeyat aur aukat me bhi aur achhe bure me faraq kerne me bhi jara thande dimag se sochna jawab tumhe khud mil jayega
 
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and its unfortunate that it's neighbors also has to deal with the mess they created.
 
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Forget about the queen, she is useless and just kept as a figurative Head of State. Just like we have a President.
You might want to read the accounts/memoirs of some former British prime ministers. They discuss their weekly-or-so meetings with the monarchs.
(I don't know how the governor-general thing specifically works in the Commonwealth countries.)
 
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You might want to read the accounts/memoirs of some former British prime ministers. They discuss their weekly-or-so meetings with the monarchs.
(I don't know how the governor-general thing specifically works in the Commonwealth countries.)

The Governor-General here is New Zealand is a figure head who does not hold any power. He is just a representative of the Queen. PM holds all the power here and is elected by the party.
People vote for the part in the elections, but that does not mean that the person chosen to become the PM is approved by the people.
My point is to give the power to the people to vote the top man in the office. He will have the burden of responsibility as he would know that people directly voted for him. 
well we indians atleast controled and abolished the evils of castesism and discrimination on babsis of caste ...for your information like pakistan today in india you cant use caste names like Banya= buisnessman, bhangi=sweeper, nai=barber,mochi=cobbler and so on

lolzzz owr most famous politicians like modi, mayawati, mulayam singh yadav, lallu P yadav, ram vilas paswan , sushil kumar shinde, AK antony ,nitish kumar and many ruling politicians right now are so called low caste

we even made muslims head of owr state more than couple of times like maulana azad and APJ abdul kalam , hehehehe and you brag about indias record in autocracies against minorities and so called "low castes" but very easli ignoare how many great leaders, buisnessmen, players, cine artists,technocrats and other professionals make it big while in look at the condition of shias, ahmedies , christians, hindus and other low caste people



bhaio mere Hindustan pe tankid kerne se pehle apna ghar dekh lo "jinke ghar sheeshe ke hote hain wo auron pe patthar nahi fainkte"

the thread was about is pakistan a true democracy the answer is its not even a democracy its a feudal land ruled by feudals who play musical chairs in name of democracy and are using and abusing all the resources of pakistan and sucking the blood owt of avrage pakistanies and are never asked any questions while in india if there is a corrupt politician say like lallu who ruled bihar for 15 years is thrown in jail ...jani hamare me aur tumhare me bahut faraq hai neeyat aur aukat me bhi aur achhe bure me faraq kerne me bhi jara thande dimag se sochna jawab tumhe khud mil jayega


LOl. I can also give evidence here about the mistreatment of dalits in India.

Subhuman lives

Oppression stalks dalits in India, says Praful Bidwai -

October 2002, Jaipur, [IPS] - A 50-kilometer journey from the capital of Rajasthan, brings visitors to Chakwara village - and back into the Middle Ages. Here, after all, is a society based on terrible persistent inequalities, social servitude and economic bondage. At the centre of the serfdom, and legitimizing it, is the systemic, systematic and religiously sanctified discrimination against the Dalits, India's former 'untouchables'. Oppression of the 160 to 180 million Dalits, who are viewed as being too low to even be part of the caste system, is one of the most repelling, but enduring, realities of the Indian countryside. Equally oppressive is the violence perpetrated against them, especially their women. To be a Dalit today means having to live in a subhuman, degraded, insecure fashion: Every hour, two Dalits are assaulted. Every day, three Dalit women are raped, and two killed. In most parts of India, Dalits continue to be barred from entering Hindu temples or other holy places - although doing so is against the law. Their women are banned from wearing shoes in the presence of caste Hindus. Dalit children often suffer a form of apartheid at school by being made to sit at the back of the classroom
The Dalits of Chakwara village discovered this when they lay their claim to a common or public resource: the village pond, bathing in which is an important ritual. The pond and the steps leading to it have been built and maintained over the years with state funds and contributions raised by the entire village, including the Dalits. But Dalits have been excluded from using the common 'ghats' for decades. Caste-based "tradition" ensures that Dalits are treated worse than the buffaloes, cows and pigs that have virtually unrestrained access to the pond. The only exception is the women who have also, irrespective of caste, always been barred from the pond.

Source:
© Civil Society Information Exchange Pvt. Ltd., all rights reserved.
 
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The Governor-General here is New Zealand is a figure head who does not hold any power. He is just a representative of the Queen. PM holds all the power here and is elected by the party.
The NZ GG has all the review powers of the British monarch, including the reserve powers that have never yet been exercised. (There's no need to, is there, since everything's running well?) But it would be hard for an entire cabinet to go corrupt under his watch, wouldn't it? That's the sort of thing Pakistan has missed.
 
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Last updated 11 min 38 sec ago

Monday, 28 October 2013 | 23 Dhul Hijja 1434 A
Has democracy really failed in Pakistan?

nadeem%20qureshi%20100x100_4.jpg

NADEEM MUMTAZ QURESHI

Published — Monday 28 October 2013
Last update 28 October 2013 12:05 am


Whenever there are elections the people who get elected and sit in Pakistan’s assemblies do not deserve to be there. They tend to be, in the rural areas, feudal landlords or the descendants of long deceased holy men called “peers.” And in the cities they are usually neighborhood thugs. In both cases they just do not have the education, competence, honesty and experience to be legislators and ministers. At some level all of Pakistan’s problems today can be attributed to this single causative factor.

Does this mean that democracy has failed in Pakistan? In seeking an answer one has to first understand that democracy comes in many shapes and forms. A dictionary definition says ‘democracy is a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting’. This is sufficiently broad to leave room for variety. And indeed the established democratic countries of the world have forms of democracy suited to their own needs or reflecting their historical, geographical or cultural make-up. It follows that democracy is not a consumer product with a single specification which countries pick from a shelf. The requirement is only that “people choose their leaders by voting.” All other aspects and details are open to design and modification.

The answer then is not that democracy has failed in Pakistan but that the particular version we have implemented is alien to our needs and context. We lifted parliamentary democracy from the British body politic and transposed it, as is, to Pakistan. British democracy evolved over several centuries to serve the specific needs and context of its habitat. It is a creature of its environment. On our part it was a fundamental error of judgment to believe that this creature would flourish if transferred to a radically different habitat. And the appalling consequences of this error are now crashing down upon us.
So we need to build a new democratic system that suits our needs. But before attempting to design the system we need to decide what objectives we want it to achieve. There are several such “design objectives” but two are of special importance. The first is to ensure that executive authority — the power to run the country and its institutions — always remains in the hands of people who have the sincerity, competence and experience to bear this responsibility. The second is to provide a disincentive to traditional crooked politicians from seeking entry to the legislature.

We also need to understand the nature of the average Pakistani voter. Pakistan has 85 million registered voters. Some 70 percent of these are illiterate. And most live in areas dominated by rural landlords. It is not reasonable to expect that they are always able to make free and informed decisions.

The broad outlines of a system that would comply with these ‘design parameters’ are as follows: It will be a presidential system with a single legislative chamber. The president will be directly elected by an electoral college. He or she will have full executive power and will appoint a Cabinet of professionals to run the agencies of the government — much as happens in the US system. The electoral college for the president will consist of educated professionals, doctors, teachers, engineers and the likes who will seek direct election at the local level with a commitment to vote for a specific presidential candidate. Members of the legislature — Parliament — will be directly elected by voters. But, critically, they will have no executive or administrative power as is now the case.

How will this system achieve the objectives set out for it? Since the electoral college for the president will consist of educated people they will be able to make informed decisions unfettered by feudal intimidation. The assumption is that they will vote in a qualified candidate to the office of president. The president then has a free hand to choose the best people in the country for the Cabinet. This achieves the first objective — a competent and sincere executive.

We know that the present set of politicians seek election to the legislature not out of any desire to serve but rather to pick the spoils that come with executive power — they become ministers, and if not ministers, they still wield administrative influence in their constituencies and are allotted money for development works — much of which finds its way into their own pockets. In the new system, they will not have any executive or administrative influence and, significantly, will not be given any development funds. Once these very substantial incentives are taken away only those people will become candidates who have a genuine desire and ability to serve the country. This achieves the second objective.

A final and vital question remains: How to put this system in place? The only legal way to do it is for a political party or group of parties to agree on this agenda, put it to the people, and seek to get a two thirds majority in the existing assembly. The two thirds majority is the threshold needed to amend the present constitution and would be necessary to make the very substantial amendments that are needed to give life to a new democracy and a future for Pakistan.

• Nadeem Mumtaz Qureshi is the chairman of Mustaqbil Pakistan Party.

is poop really stopped by constipation?
 
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The NZ GG has all the review powers of the British monarch, including the reserve powers that have never yet been exercised. (There's no need to, is there, since everything's running well?) But it would be hard for an entire cabinet to go corrupt under his watch, wouldn't it? That's the sort of thing Pakistan has missed.


Lets just agree to disagree here.
 
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Lets just agree to disagree here.
Direct election of a prime minister has its own problems. Israel revised its system to directly elect the PM a decade or so back. Have you reviewed it? Do you think Israel's experience a positive one and if so do you think it can be reproduced in Pakistan?
 
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Yes DEMOCRAZY has failed in Pakistan, as long as these spineless politicians act like wh*res, that whenever US whistles & they (politician wh*res) run towards their pimp they will always fail.

Understanding & working for Pakistan is the the most important step but these wh*re politicians have no love for Pakistan & they want to work only for their foreign pimp bosses, for the sake of dollars.

First Gardari did it & not patwari has done it by bowing down to US.
 
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