Has democracy really failed in Pakistan?

[SBD-3]

Go read the declaration, It says to sign the declaration that you consider Mirza Sahib(as) as an imposter and liar.

I don't know if you understand what democracy is, or even what I wrote. I don't want to get in a religious debate because I know too well what happens to any posts that have a hint of being pro ahmadi. So stick to democracy and how it is not working in Pakistan because of what is happening to minorities and especially Ahmadis. It's not a democracy if it passes laws and discriminate against a religious community, banning ahmadi ijtemas and jalsas also isn't very democratic. It is not a democracy if it only allows state sanctioned momins to become presidents etc. ( and we know how pious not non corrupt they are, right.)

Prove to me how Pakistan is a democracy. Debating religion will get me sanctioned like it has done 3 times before, although nothing has happened to those momins who were debating me.

I have submitted it thats why I am saying this. Now rather than ranting, why don't you answer my question?

 

[Pakistani E]

I have submitted it thats why I am saying this. Now rather than ranting, why don't you answer my question?

You want me to start explaining ahmadi beliefs so a mod can come and sanction me again? no thank you.

 

[Pakistani E]

I have submitted it thats why I am saying this. Now rather than ranting, why don't you answer my question?

And Why must anyone sign a declaration to distance themselves from ahmadis to be considered eligble for voting? That was what I was saying in my post. Too long to read I know.

 

[SBD-3]

And is it the ahmadis who called it napakistan but now have become custodians of this state? And yes of course Qaid e Azam's secretary single handed drew Pakistan on the map on the directions of Jinnah Sahib. Lol people like Zafrullah was attracted to muslims league because of power? Did you know the man personally to conclude that or you didn't want to leave a comment without some funny remark how ahmadis were in it for power.

Again rather than ranting, if you have something decisive, please bring forth.

I also have books that I can quote, but we are discussing democracy in Pakistan. Not who's typewriter made Pakistan.

And again rather than ranting, if you have something conclusive, please bring forth.

 

[SBD-3]

And Why must anyone sign a declaration to distance themselves from ahmadis to be considered eligble for voting? That was what I was saying in my post. Too long to read I know.

And now comes the U-Turn. You were saying something about declaration calling Mirza a liar and an imposter. Now rather than taking U-turns stay on your point and answer my question, will you?

 

[Pakistani E]

Again rather than ranting, if you have something decisive, please bring forth.


And again rather than ranting, if you have something conclusive, please bring forth.

All my posts are rants and all you're posts all full of hidden eastern wisdom. Ok there fella, enjoy yourself in that deluded bubble of yours.

 

[Sugarcane]

Rather interestingly, KH Khurshid (Quaid e Azam's personal secretary) in his book makes an interesting disclosure about the first foreign minister Sir.Zafar Ullah Khan. He was interviewing the Mr. Mumtaz Hassan, the first finance secretary of Pakistan about his experience with Jinnah. He notes

The book has some other interesting disclosures as well (about which i will write a complete thread when I could spare some time to write). However, this shows that when Quaid said that "Pakistan was made by me, my secratary and his typewriter" He was correct to a greater degree and this just shows that the People like zafarullah and many others were attracted to Muslim league because they could use this power house after the makings of Pakistan.

More you read, more people you will find - IMHO, majority of politicians (specially Punjab & Sindh) who voted for Pakistan did so for their personal interests and they achieved it,

 

[Pakistani E]

And now comes the U-Turn. You were saying something about declaration calling Mirza a liar and an imposter. Now rather than taking U-turns stay on your point and answer my question, will you?

it's not U-turn lol. That's what I have been saying. This form is my problem with anyone saying there is democracy in Pakistan. If you want to play debate back forth with no one coming to the point then be my guest.

 

[SBD-3]

All my posts are rants and all you're posts all full of hidden eastern wisdom. Ok there fella, enjoy yourself in that deluded bubble of yours.

Is that a running away tactics?
I said If you have anything conclusive PLEASE BRING FORTH.... the part has been bolded so you can easily see it.

 

[SBD-3]

More you read, more people you will find - IMHO, majority of politicians (specially Punjab & Sindh) who voted for Pakistan did so for their personal interests and they achieved it,

Actually Quaid was betrayed by some of his trusted fellows at crucial points leading Quaid to lose faith in almost all of his fellowmen. He was once so disgusted that he told KH Khurshid,"Have you ever seen Gandi's private secratary Pyaray Lal? How he looks after Gandi, how hindu pressmen and public are true to his cause? History has shown that Its only muslims that you find traitors in."

 

[SBD-3]

it's not U-turn lol. That's what I have been saying. This form is my problem with anyone saying there is democracy in Pakistan. If you want to play debate back forth with no one coming to the point then be my guest.

Telling a lie and then running away, these are not the manners of debate.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Pakistan was never concieved in true nature as welfare state it was an idea concieved by the british in last leg of late 19th century to rule india by "divide&rule polici" for which they roped in Muslim feudal elite and they made jinnah/iqubal pawns in there game to get it ,,..and they got it in 1947 ....Pakistan was made by feudal for the feudal with help of british not because there love for devlopment and upliftment of muslim masses in Indian sub continent

as soon as india got independence it abolished feudalism and that helped indian masses to become both economicalli and socialli free which created the huge middle class which in turn helped india become a true democracy

on the other hand in pakistan feudals always played the musical chair/topi drama in name of democracy ..

as Hassan nisar puts it ....... Pakistan me jhamooriyat nahi battareen mauroosiyat hai ...ek insan jiske sar pe chat apni nahi , roti apni nahi uska vote uska kaise ho sakta hai ...

baki ..lage raho

 

[Pakistani E]

Telling a lie and then running away, these are not the manners of debate.

lol running away. Bro we have a life as well, I had to go Uni. I am back now. Although I'll concede I did run back home because it was absolutely pouring it down. Now, my whole point in my first post was that Pakistan cannot be called a democracy because of the way its voting system is. I also explained why I believed that. You on the other hand want to derail this into another ahmadi belief thread so it can get locked like you people always do.

So I didn't run away, I'm still here. My point still stands that Pakistan in the current form is not a democracy. I also suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word apartheid. Then since you disagree with my assessment, the burden of proof, so to say, lies on you to prove what I'm saying is wrong. You can't quote my original point and say I'm making a U-turn while it is actually my whole argument in this thread. So please tell me how I am wrong in assessing that Pakistan isn't a democracy? (Don't go on ahmadi beliefs, or what happens in any other country, just tell me how this current system in Pakistan is a democracy.)

 

[Pakistani E]

@hasnain0099
The Election Commission ordered vide its letter No. F.1(6)/2001-Cord dated 17 January, 2007 that “the competent authority has been pleased to decide that separate supplementary lists of draft electoral rolls for Ahmadis/Qadianis for the electoral areas concerned, wherever they are registered, may be prepared and published…” (The letter is reproduced in Annex II). So, either there is no Joint Electorate or there is plain discrimination. Either way, this is unbecoming to any decent society and its government.
Those who govern Pakistan and the Election Commission have all along adopted well-considered devious steps to ensure that Ahmadis are unable to participate in elections. In the Election 2002, the Election Commission introduced two separate forms for registration of voters, one for Muslims (Form 2) and another (Form 8) for Non-Muslims (Annex III), and made it obligatory for Ahmadis to apply through Form 8. No Ahmadi could voluntarily succumb to this enormity and violation of a fundamental right. This suited well to the Election Commission and the mulla. Now the Commission has done away with Form 8 and redesigned Form 2. The new Form 2 (Annex IV) is the same for all voters, but (a big but) it requires them to tick one of the given boxes that mention religion. To ensure that an Ahmadi may not tick himself as Muslim, special certificate is added on the back of the Form wherein every applicant who ticks himself as a Muslim is made to sign the following unprecedented certificate:
“I affirm on oath that I and all the members of my family who are listed on the preceding page believe completely and unconditionally in the finality of prophethood of Khatam un Nabiyyeen Muhammad (peace be upon him). None of us recognizes any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever after Muhammad (peace be upon him) or recognizes such a claimant as prophet or a religious reformer. None of us is associated with the Qadiani or Lahori group, or calls himself an Ahmadi.
Date:
Signature or thumb impression of the head or such member of the family who is eligible for enrollment in the electoral roll.”
This form includes a warning that a violation will be punished with imprisonment. That places Pakistan squarely in the company of 17th century Europe. It is relevant to mention that the given definition of a Muslim in Form 2, as adopted from Article 260(3) of the constitution is only Pakistan-specific and, leave alone the original sources, is not to be found anywhere else in 1400 years since the birth of Islam. This is true also regarding the definition of non-Muslim given in Art 260(3) b.

 

[Sedqal]

Simply

Pakistan was never concieved in true nature as welfare state it was an idea concieved by the british in last leg of late 19th century to rule india by "divide&rule polici" for which they roped in Muslim feudal elite and they made jinnah/iqubal pawns in there game to get it ,,..and they got it in 1947 ....Pakistan was made by feudal for the feudal with help of british not because there love for devlopment and upliftment of muslim masses in Indian sub continent

as soon as india got independence it abolished feudalism and that helped indian masses to become both economicalli and socialli free which created the huge middle class which in turn helped india become a true democracy

on the other hand in pakistan feudals always played the musical chair/topi drama in name of democracy ..

as Hassan nisar puts it ....... Pakistan me jhamooriyat nahi battareen mauroosiyat hai ...ek insan jiske sar pe chat apni nahi , roti apni nahi uska vote uska kaise ho sakta hai ...

baki ..lage raho

Simply BS - India was ridiculed for its 'Hindu growth of rate' (no sarcasm, they actually called it that) till mid 90's. So where is the 'Indian masses become economically and socially free' part? Caste-ism was being practised in the most barbaric fashion for most of this time. Analysts consider the uneven distribution of wealth one of the biggest threats to the system and with crony capitalism it will only grow.

It's quite surprising that you will ignore the misery of your own people just to convince readers that you are doing better then Pakistan.

[Lols @ Moorosiat, what is Gandhi/ Nehru dynasty? India actually has more moorosiat in their politics then Pakistan]

In any case the thread is on Pakistan and lets keep it on that. You can flaunt your fantasy success stories in some other thread.