Hamid Mir Blasts Ayaz Mir on Iqbal

[S.Y.A]

again wrong.. you didn't answer all my questions and your above verbose is reiteration of what you said earlier.

about jallianwala bagh, iqbal's poetry does not usually contain references to recent events, he generally deals with and tries to guide youth to improve themselves internally(most of the time "to rise and claim your destiny" etc type of things). and then again there is the affair which i again say(and as you yourself say) took place earlier, then there is women in char deewari, to which i say again that the verse you posted syas no such thing, then you say he hired a tutor, so please tell me if he was so open minded that he hired a "na mahram" tutor, why would he not allow his daughter to leave his house.
then about 1930 address, the important thing here is that he demanded a separate state, even if it would had been under the british, it would have been just like what Pakistan was until 1956, that is a dominion of the empire. under the british or not, muslims would have been free to follow the laws set down by religion.
and about the qoumi geet which you say was published in 1924, please do read the statement you yourself posted containing a part of iqbal's address in 1930(6 whole years in between btw), he was happy with a homeland under the british but not a part of hindustani federation.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan is shayari allowed in Islam?

Yes which is related to Islam and ALLAH and PROPHET SAW not romantic poetry

 

[S.Y.A]

I called terrorist a terrorist, why are you so upset? Are you also one of them?

Terrorist: Anybody sympathizing, supporting, appeasing the banned rebel outfit TTP (alias JI/JUI).

what if somebody called you a terrorist too? how would you feel.

 

[syedali73]

what if somebody called you a terrorist too? how would you feel.

If I am declared one by the government, and by the people of Pakistan, such as in the case of TTP, I wont mind I guess.

 

[MM_Haider]

about jallianwala bagh, iqbal's poetry does not usually contain references to recent events, he generally deals with and tries to guide youth to improve themselves internally(most of the time "to rise and claim your destiny" etc type of things). and then again there is the affair which i again say(and as you yourself say) took place earlier, then there is women in char deewari, to which i say again that the verse you posted syas no such thing, then you say he hired a tutor, so please tell me if he was so open minded that he hired a "na mahram" tutor, why would he not allow his daughter to leave his house.
then about 1930 address, the important thing here is that he demanded a separate state, even if it would had been under the british, it would have been just like what Pakistan was until 1956, that is a dominion of the empire. under the british or not, muslims would have been free to follow the laws set down by religion.
and about the qoumi geet which you say was published in 1924, please do read the statement you yourself posted containing a part of iqbal's address in 1930(6 whole years in between btw), he was happy with a homeland under the british but not a part of hindustani federation.

You are inventing things to match your narrative which even Allama Iqbal might not have known!

Iqbal can write specifically about a girl Fatimah Bint Abdullah who died in the war of Tripoli, he can write specifically about his son, Javed nama, He can write specifically about Khilafat, He can write specifically about Humaioon, He can write about Shakespeare but this much big incident of Jalianwala Bagh remains hidden from his eyes or he didn't pay heed to this incident that it remained unable to get place in his book(s) specifically.

Why was he reluctant to send his daughters to school? Why hire a teacher for her own daughters when he is having a relationship with Madam Attyah faizee who is a scholar? He writes in one of the letter to Attyah, while he was married to ;

" My Dear Miss Atiya: I am totally grateful for the letter I have just received. Today, since morning, my temperament has been uncommonly joyful. Therefore, if you perceive, the sweetness of jocularity in this missive, consider it a compulsion."

This is hypocritical that he was having different standards for his own daughters. He wrote poems against English education, but is having an affection for Educated, Modern and unveiled girl who wrote her travelogue in English? Today everybody wants to get their kids admitted to English medium school. Doesn't this mean that Allama Iqbal didn't realize the need of the hour? Now please don't bring 'tashreehat' of your own about vulgarity etc. If Allama Iqbal was against vulgarity coming from education, he could have written it clearly.

I told you earlier that Bhagat Singh wanted a complete free India from The British but Allama Iqbal was happy even under British rule. Who was better?

How are you so sure that Muslims could have followed their religion under British? Mate it would have been secular just like united India was under British Rule.

There are contradiction in his life. A human is never perfect! Please don't put him at a place where talking about his life, his personal approach, his family life (he divorced his wife Karim Bibi and mentioned it to Atyah faizee as well) is a sacrilege. Because his narrative about Jihad, Khilafat, Education, Women, Philosophy, ideology might be proven to be wrong with the course of the time.

 

[Zarvan]

You are inventing things to match your narrative which even Allama Iqbal might not have known!

Iqbal can write specifically about a girl Fatimah Bint Abdullah who died in the war of Tripoli, he can write specifically about his son, Javed nama, He can write specifically about Khilafat, He can write specifically about Humaioon, He can write about Shakespeare but this much big incident of Jalianwala Bagh remains hidden from his eyes or he didn't pay heed to this incident that it remained unable to get place in his book(s) specifically.

Why was he reluctant to send his daughters to school? Why hire a teacher for her own daughters when he is having a relationship with Madam Attyah faizee who is a scholar? He writes in one of the letter to Attyah, while he was married to ;

" My Dear Miss Atiya: I am totally grateful for the letter I have just received. Today, since morning, my temperament has been uncommonly joyful. Therefore, if you perceive, the sweetness of jocularity in this missive, consider it a compulsion."

This is hypocritical that he was having different standards for his own daughters. He wrote poems against English education, but is having an affection for Educated, Modern and unveiled girl who wrote her travelogue in English? Today everybody wants to get their kids admitted to English medium school. Doesn't this mean that Allama Iqbal didn't realize the need of the hour? Now please don't bring 'tashreehat' of your own about vulgarity etc. If Allama Iqbal was against vulgarity coming from education, he could have written it clearly.

I told you earlier that Bhagat Singh wanted a complete free India from The British but Allama Iqbal was happy even under British rule. Who was better?

How are you so sure that Muslims could have followed their religion under British? Mate it would have been secular just like united India was under British Rule.

There are contradiction in his life. A human is never perfect! Please don't put him at a place where talking about his life, his personal approach, his family life (he divorced his wife Karim Bibi and mentioned it to Atyah faizee as well) is a sacrilege. Because his narrative about Jihad, Khilafat, Education, Women, Philosophy, ideology might be proven to be wrong with the course of the time.

First he hired the teacher because he was not satisfied with the atmosphere at school and with that women you are talking about he was writing letters and that too when he was in Europe that was early process of his personality getting developed and at least he got her daughter educated although he died when she was only 9 Allama Iqbal didn't killed innocent Bhagat Singh did Mr and You are mixing the whole contest Iqbal gave that speech because Muslims were first asking for separate electorate British were not agreeing they were in full power by than no chance of them leaving so he gave the idea of sovereign provinces where Muslims are in majority so they have their own laws and develop their own system so at least before proving yourself an ignorant man please educate yourself ALLAMA was not against English Mr he in his poetry took english as a symbol he was mainly against western culture and what women are in west no body understood better than him the need of the hour but an ignorant person like you can only talk shit against great Iqbal

 

[syedali73]

@MM_Haider: Problem with a majority of Pakistanis is that we have put certain people on the high pedestals. We consider them demigod, we worship them, and imagine that they were some heavenly beings who were perfect and flawless. Whereas none but Allah is perfect. We don't accept for them anything less than rahmatullah alih (RA) whether they truly deserve this or not. A great majority of posters who are defending Iqbal here have no clue about history, because they have not read, and are not interested at all in going through it. I know they don't read because when certain posters post columns, hardly anybody will reply, and if they do, they'll refer to isolated sentences and never take the meaning or message in its true context.

Iqbal was a great poet and philosopher but the world has produced greater than him. Jinnah was a great statesman but the world has also produced Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Bismark, Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi. We are narrow, in fact closed-minded people, who have no appetite for knowledge, yet we consider ourselves the top notch scholars. When you talk about any contradictions (such as in this case) all of a sudden it becomes a religious problem, people start finding American and Jewish conspiracies and labeling people as agents and what not. What is the result of this attitude? Look where are the American and Jews and where are we? We are so delusional that the person we defend (Iqbal in this case), we even don't know about his work, his message, and his disappointments from Muslims. It is the Iqbal who has cursed Mullah and Mullahism:

"Deen-i-Mullah Fi Sabeel-illah fasad";
"Kaabe Ke Brahman";
"Mullah Ki Azan aur, Mujahid Ki Azan aur";
"Hai Bad-Amozi-i-Aqwam-o-Milal Kam Isska";
"Main janta hoon anjam usska Jis Ma'arke men Mullah hon Ghazi"

 

[syedali73]

Yes which is related to Islam and ALLAH and PROPHET SAW not romantic poetry

Haqiqat Khurafat Mein Kho Gyi
Ye Ummat Rawayat Mein Kho Gyi

The truth has been lost in absurdities, And in traditions is this Ummah rooted still.

Saqi nama - Iqbal

 

[Zarvan]

Haqiqat Khurafat Mein Kho Gyi
Ye Ummat Rawayat Mein Kho Gyi

The truth has been lost in absurdities, And in traditions is this Ummah rooted still.

Saqi nama - Iqbal

Mr if you referring this shair and trying to call the rawayat as Iqbal is referring to Hadees than you are totally wrong because many of his poetry was based on Hadees the traditions here he is referring to influence of Hindu and other cultures from wedding to other events we do things which have nothing to do with Quran and Sunnah

 

[syedali73]

Mr if you referring this shair and trying to call the rawayat as Iqbal is referring to Hadees than you are totally wrong because many of his poetry was based on Hadees the traditions here he is referring to influence of Hindu and other cultures from wedding to other events we do things which have nothing to do with Quran and Sunnah

Alfaaz-o-maani main tafawat nahin lekin
Mullah ki azan aur hai, Mujahid ki azan aur

Parwaaz hai dono ki issi aik fiza main
Kirgis ka jahan aur hai, Shaheen ka jahan aur

Mullah is Kirgis (vulture, who eats dead) as per Iqbal. How true it is for TTP (alias JI/JUI), Fazal ur Rahman, Sami ul Haque, Abdul Aziz and their supporters.

 

[Zarvan]

@MM_Haider: Problem with a majority of Pakistanis is that we have put certain people on the high pedestals. We consider them demigod, we worship them, and imagine that they were some heavenly beings who were perfect and flawless. Whereas none but Allah is perfect. We don't accept for them anything less than rahmatullah alih (RA) whether they truly deserve this or not. A great majority of posters who are defending Iqbal here have no clue about history, because they have not read, and are not interested at all in going through it. I know they don't read because when certain posters post columns, hardly anybody will reply, and if they do, they'll refer to isolated sentences and never take the meaning or message in its true context.

Iqbal was a great poet and philosopher but the world has produced greater than him. Jinnah was a great statesman but the world has also produced Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Bismark, Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi. We are narrow, in fact closed-minded people, who have no appetite for knowledge, yet we consider ourselves the top notch scholars. When you talk about any contradictions (such as in this case) all of a sudden it becomes a religious problem, people start finding American and Jewish conspiracies and labeling people as agents and what not. What is the result of this attitude? Look where are the American and Jews and where are we? We are so delusional that the person we defend (Iqbal in this case), we even don't know about his work, his message, and his disappointments from Muslims. It is the Iqbal who has cursed Mullah and Mullahism:

"Deen-i-Mullah Fi Sabeel-illah fasad";
"Kaabe Ke Brahman";
"Mullah Ki Azan aur, Mujahid Ki Azan aur";
"Hai Bad-Amozi-i-Aqwam-o-Milal Kam Isska";
"Main janta hoon anjam usska Jis Ma'arke men Mullah hon Ghazi"

O really history and hitler and Gandhi biggest statesman really great Hitler was the biggest idiot and Gandhi was quite a hypocrite even Nehru was clearer than him and I know Iqbal and have read it and also worked on him Mr and others on this forum are have worked more than me and secondly Iqbal also defended Mullahs in some of his poetry specially related to Afghanistan

Alfaaz-o-maani main tafawat nahin lekin
Mullah ki azan aur hai, Mujahid ki azan aur

Parwaaz hai dono ki issi aik fiza main
Kirgis ka jahan aur hai, Shaheen ka jahan aur

Mullah is Kirgis (vulture, who eats dead) as per Iqbal. How true it is for TTP (alias JI/JUI), Fazal ur Rahman, Sami ul Haque, Abdul Aziz and their supporters.

I know Mr I have read Iqbal so don't quote me also quote what he said about being Hindu and Christian in culture than even Jews feel shy from Muslims mainly referring to western slaves in Jawab e Shikwa

 

[syedali73]

O really history and hitler and Gandhi biggest statesman really great Hitler was the biggest idiot and Gandhi was quite a hypocrite even Nehru was clearer than him and I know Iqbal and have read it and also worked on him Mr and others on this forum are have worked more than me and secondly Iqbal also defended Mullahs in some of his poetry specially related to Afghanistan


I know Mr I have read Iqbal so don't quote me also quote what he said about being Hindu and Christian in culture than even Jews feel shy from Muslims mainly referring to western slaves in Jawab e Shikwa

Yahi sheikh-e-Haram hai, jo chura ker baich khata hai
Galim-e-Bu Zar-o-dalq-e-Awais-o-chader-e-Zehra

Hazoor-e-Haq main Israfeel nay meri shikayat ki
Ye banda waqt say pehley qayamat ker na dey berpa

 

[Zarvan]

Yahi sheikh-e-Haram hai, jo chura ker baich khata hai
Galim-e-Bu Zar-o-dalq-e-Awais-o-chader-e-Zehra

Hazoor-e-Haq main Israfeel nay meri shikayat ki
Ye banda waqt say pehley qayamat ker na dey berpa

I agree Mr but Iqbal also defended Mullah when he talks about Afghanistan he says if you want to take out love of Islam from Afghan take out Mullah from their and also Iqbal was a Islamists and he blasted Mullahs and Sufis too in his poetry

Specially those sufis which when Muslims have to pick up arms instead keep telling people to pray and not fight

 

[syedali73]

I agree Mr but Iqbal also defended Mullah when he talks about Afghanistan he says if you want to take out love of Islam from Afghan take out Mullah from their and also Iqbal was a Islamists and he blasted Mullahs and Sufis too in his poetry

Zinda qu'at thi jahan main yehi Tauheed kabhi
Aaj kya hai? faqat ik masla-e-ilm-e-kalaam

Qaum kya cheez hai, qaumon ki immamat kya hai
Iss ko kya samjhain ye becharey dou rakat kay Imaam

 

[Zarvan]

Zinda qu'at thi jahan main yehi Tauheed kabhi
Aaj kya hai? faqat ik masla-e-ilm-e-kalaam

Qaum kya cheez hai, qaumon ki immamat kya hai
Iss ko kya samjhain ye becharey dou rakat kay Imaam

Why you highlighted that part Iqbal love of Islam was known but he has strong disagreement with few Mullahs and Sufis himself their is no contradiction