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LCA-Tejas has Completed 2061 Test Flights successfully.(28-Feb-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-351,LSP1-74,LSP2-257,PV5-36,LSP3-105,LSP4-66,LSP5-139,LSP7-27,NP1-4)

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LCA-Tejas has completed 2059 Test Flights Successfully. (27-Feb-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-351,LSP1-74,LSP2-257,PV5-36,LSP3-105,LSP4-66,LSP5-137,LSP7-27,NP1-4)
 
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replace russian systems, which is not possible if we only concentrate on modifying mission computers and wirings of Mig 29s as per your logic.

:) That's exactly what I said, but since you purposly don't want to understand...

Take Mig 29K as an example, it would be much better for IN if we can integrate an Indian AESA to replace Zhuk ME, or to integrate Kaveri K10 when RD33 MK needs replacements, than developing a fully fledged N-LCA with the same techs, but on a less capable plattform.
We would reduce the dependence on Russia, by increasing the indigenous content in the more capable Russian fighter!
That's why developing simpler modifications now is more realistic according to our capabilities, than dreaming of something that we might be able to develop in some decades.

For how long do you plan to buy and make minor modifications to foreign fighters?

I am talking about the fighters we will operate for the nex 3 decades, MKI, Mig 29K, Rafale, LCA, FGFA. So since we will have these, we also have to think about how to make them more capable and less dependent. For IN I already stated that AMCA would be the most important project and not such a nonsense like N-LCA. But again, you have to listen and at least try to understand what I say.


Knowledge to develop all these technologies does not come with any purchase like Rafael or co development or JV like PAKFA, but with in house R&D programs like LCA, AMCA, Kaveri and LRDE Radar.

Yeah, that's why Kaveri ended as a failure, LCA is still not developed, it's radar is not ready either and the only way out of it (ADMITTED BY DRDO) was and is to find foreign partners like Elta or Snecma.
On the other side, our most successful developments currently are Dhruv with Shakti engine and Brahmos, all thanks to credible help from foreign partners. Just like we got most of our knowledge in the radar and EW field from JV with Israeli companies, or why our privat companies are forming JVs, or simply taking over foreign companies to benefit from their knowledge... you can't be more wrong!

As I said, you simply have a too biased view to see even the reality of our indigenous developments and the involvement of foreign partners, which makes it not surprising that you don't want to understand facts. So lets leave it at that and don't waste more time.

So, faithfulguy, you're back?

Yeah, thought so too, but the mods have taken care :)
 
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Guys Here's your refreshment for the day:;) :tup:

IMG_0077-L.jpg
 
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:) That's exactly what I said, but since you purposly don't want to understand...

Take Mig 29K as an example, it would be much better for IN if we can integrate an Indian AESA to replace Zhuk ME, or to integrate Kaveri K10 when RD33 MK needs replacements, than developing a fully fledged N-LCA with the same techs, but on a less capable plattform.
We would reduce the dependence on Russia, by increasing the indigenous content in the more capable Russian fighter!
That's why developing simpler modifications now is more realistic according to our capabilities, than dreaming of something that we might be able to develop in some decades.

It seems you are so deeply engrossed in your dreams that reality defies you. Again, for all major modifications or upgrades like radar, engine, control laws and airframe for SU30s and Mig29k, India is bound to go to the original OEM. India cannot make modifications of major systems on its own. India can only make modifications when the OEM no longer has support for that fighter like the case of Jaguar. Your dream of fitting Indian radar and engine on Mig29 can only come true provided Russia no longer supports its upgrades.

For IN I already stated that AMCA would be the most important project and not such a nonsense like N-LCA. But again, you have to listen and at least try to understand what I say.

Where did IN state that? I think in your dreams because IN knows better than you, which is clear from its backing for the NLCA project. Kindly don't peddle nonsense here, while you are free to do that in your dreams.



On the other side, our most successful developments currently are Dhruv with Shakti engine and Brahmos, all thanks to credible help from foreign partners. Just like we got most of our knowledge in the radar and EW field from JV with Israeli companies, or why our privat companies are forming JVs, or simply taking over foreign companies to benefit from their knowledge... you can't be more wrong!

Wake up dude! Dhruv is Indian not russian. Dhruv program is similar to the LCA program where we tried to develop our first platform with foreign consultation. We can use any engine or for that matter any system that suits our requirement. This is not the case with SU30s and Mig29, both of which can only be upgraded with the help of the OEM. Talking about JV, it is nothing more than selling products via third parties that are Indian companies. you can't be more wrong if you expect that Indian companies will gain knowledge through JVs. The only knowledge they will gain is manufacturing and support. As far as taking over company is concerned that is a far fetched dream.

It is time for you to wake up and smell the coffee. Foreign companies from russia, france ect are not here for charity that they will pass on critical Technology to Indian companies. Self reliance can only be achieved through indigenous programs like LCA, AMCA, Kaveri etc. Foreign consultation is always welcome for expediting the process.
 
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It seems you are so deeply engrossed in your dreams that reality defies you. Again, for all major modifications or upgrades like radar, engine, control laws and airframe for SU30s and Mig29k, India is bound to go to the original OEM. India cannot make modifications of major systems on its own. India can only make modifications when the OEM no longer has support for that fighter like the case of Jaguar. Your dream of fitting Indian radar and engine on Mig29 can only come true provided Russia no longer supports its upgrades.



Where did IN state that? I think in your dreams because IN knows better than you, which is clear from its backing for the NLCA project. Kindly don't peddle nonsense here, while you are free to do that in your dreams.





Wake up dude! Dhruv is Indian not russian. Dhruv program is similar to the LCA program where we tried to develop our first platform with foreign consultation. We can use any engine or for that matter any system that suits our requirement. This is not the case with SU30s and Mig29, both of which can only be upgraded with the help of the OEM. Talking about JV, it is nothing more than selling products via third parties that are Indian companies. you can't be more wrong if you expect that Indian companies will gain knowledge through JVs. The only knowledge they will gain is manufacturing and support. As far as taking over company is concerned that is a far fetched dream.

It is time for you to wake up and smell the coffee. Foreign companies from russia, france ect are not here for charity that they will pass on critical Technology to Indian companies. Self reliance can only be achieved through indigenous programs like LCA, AMCA, Kaveri etc. Foreign consultation is always welcome for expediting the process.


Well said man
 
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^^
Advanced Systems Improve Tejas’ Fighting Skills

Posted by Tamir Eshel

As the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been in the making for much too long, but despite the delays, the aircraft that slowly moves toward the finish line is ‘born old’. If and when it is announced ‘fully mission capable’ by next year, Tejas will represent a mid-1990s generation platform, but will be ready to deploy with combat systems of the 21 st century.
This has not come by choice – the Indian Government and research establishments insisted for decades that the LCA as other indigenous weapon systems should be 100 percent Indian designed and made. This attitude has stumbled the project for years, as Indian R&D centers were coping with knowledge gaps, technological issues or manufacturing capabilities. After three decades, as the aircraft is finally pacing toward the coveted (and much delayed) ‘fulloperational capability’ status, it is clear that many of its subsystems are not domestic, and many others may be built in India but not Indian designed.
EL/M2052 AESA radar to be integrated in the LCA. Tamir Eshel, Defense-Update
Visit IAI at Aero-India
Assuming the Astra missile currently developed for the aircraft not meet the full flight envelope performance goals, the IAF and Indian Naval Aviation are integrating the Derby and Python 5 missiles on the aircraft, along with Russian R73 that was slated for the aircraft from the beginning, to meet the required full-operational capabilities level for the fighter. These weapons will be needed primarily to meet the Indian Navy requirement for carrier air defense, as the LCA will begin to replace the Sea Harriers that currently carry those missions with these weapons.
Elbit Systems at Aero-India
The LCA will also carry the EL/M-2052 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar developed by IAI Elta. Originally, the EL/M-2032 was selected but the new 2052 now available with a more compact antenna is best designed to fit the nose cones of LCA and Jaguar, offering enhanced capabilities for both fighters. This agile radar, along with the DASH-3 helmet mounted display sight from Elbit Systems will enable a Tejas pilot to acquire targets at all combat ranges and engage them in full sphere, shooting the missiles by merely looking at the target, without having to maneuver the LCA toward the target, thus making the Tejas much more potent than the sum of its aerodynamic capabilities offer. In fact, such smart combat systems could provide the LCAs just that amount of survivability it needs to avoid trouble, safely carry out its mission and even win a dogfightif the situation ‘gets ugly’.
The aircraft will also be carrying the Liteningtargeting pod, enabling the LCA to deploy precision guided weapons of various types – from laser guided, to GPS or EO guided weapons.
 
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Dhruv program is similar to the LCA program where we tried to develop our first platform with foreign consultation.

As you already admitted, you are full of your pride BS, that's why you don't see the reallity. Dhruv and LCA developments were completelly different, IF we had done LCA as Dhruv, it would be a success now!

Dhruv was designed by foreign partners, it used foreign core systems at first which were replaced with indigenous systems later, we formed JVs and co-developments (for Shakti engine for example) with foreign partners to gain know how and get modern techs according to our requirements. All this was sadly not done for LCA, because ADA and DRDO thought they could do it all alone.
That's exactly the reason why I am saying, that it's in our interest to keep things simple and constantly increase our capabilities, instead of dreaming big and failling even bigger!

But as long there are people like you that simply buy their promises and nobody takes them to account for their failures and mistakes, they will continue to do same mistakes on and on.
I am more than happy that the DM and the air Chief used Aero India to publically put more pressure on them and to showed the reality. Just like they are not as naiv as you are and pushing more and more for participation of our industry with foreign companies, be it the government owned or the privat once. Just like they understood the importance of ToT and offsets to imporve our industry, because if we remain with nothing but HOPE on our industry alone, we will remain to be disappointed.
 
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As you already admitted, you are full of your pride BS, that's why you don't see the reallity. Dhruv and LCA developments were completelly different, IF we had done LCA as Dhruv, it would be a success now!

Dhruv was designed by foreign partners, it used foreign core systems at first which were replaced with indigenous systems later, we formed JVs and co-developments (for Shakti engine for example) with foreign partners to gain know how and get modern techs according to our requirements. All this was sadly not done for LCA, because ADA and DRDO thought they could do it all alone.
That's exactly the reason why I am saying, that it's in our interest to keep things simple and constantly increase our capabilities, instead of dreaming big and failling even bigger!

But as long there are people like you that simply buy their promises and nobody takes them to account for their failures and mistakes, they will continue to do same mistakes on and on.
I am more than happy that the DM and the air Chief used Aero India to publically put more pressure on them and to showed the reality. Just like they are not as naiv as you are and pushing more and more for participation of our industry with foreign companies, be it the government owned or the privat once. Just like they understood the importance of ToT and offsets to imporve our industry, because if we remain with nothing but HOPE on our industry alone, we will remain to be disappointed.
Go through this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/233416-alh-dhruv-truth-first-hand.html

I am just highlighting the important points:

1. Against these very high benchmarks and somewhat sweeping and futuristic expectations, the Government set up a Negotiations Committee to explore the possibility of collaboration with Aerospatiale (France) or MBB (Germany).

2. The fact remains that some of the futuristic design options put forth by MBB were initially resounding failures. The project that was supposed to have progressed smoothly under the tutelage of advanced German technology, instead stumbled badly to almost a point of no-return and required extreme effort by our indigenous teams to recover, re-develop from basic design stages and optimise for production.

3. It would also appear that MBB had either over-estimated their capabilities or perhaps had even attempted to experiment the feasibility of some of these concepts at the cost of our project.

4. Abrupt Departure of MBB. During 1994-95, MBB’s involvement in design consultancy of the project abruptly ceased as their contract had expired and was not renewed for any further period. This period was crucial, as flights of the first prototypes were well underway and all the design related problems were showing up on test-benches, Ground Test Vehicle (GTV) and on the prototypes. Issues pertaining to repeated and early failures of the MGB, failures of the ARIS, weight increase, etc had very clearly manifested during this period. Whatever the imperatives of that decision were, the fact remains that this abrupt and untimely departure of MBB resulted in a whole lot of very problematic design issues relating to various complicated systems suddenly being tackled solely by designers of HAL. This was compounded by the fact that our designers did not have any previous experience. All this resulted in an iterative approach in attempting several design alternatives for rectification that sometimes did not work, usually required repetitious testing and almost always contributed to delays.

Main Gear Box(MGB)

(a) The MGB is designed to be compact, light-weight, yet capable of handling the high power output of the two turboshaft engines. It comprises only a two-stage reduction, with a large diameter central collective gear that has a titanium stub-shaft directly bolted onto it. The large diameter was mostly dictated by the need to run the control rods inside the rotor shaft. The stub-shaft in turn is attached to the titanium centre-piece that has the main rotor blades attached to it. The compact, squat and light-weight MGB frees up huge amounts of cabin space below, which is essentially the secret to the ALH’s excellent cabin volume. The project to develop the MGB was sub-contracted by MBB to ZF (Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen), Germany, a drive-train specialist that had previous aviation experience limited to developing and building gear boxes for the smaller MBB’s BK-117 and Bo-105 helicopters.

(b) Although ZF’s BK-117 MGB also uses a two-stage reduction, it has important differences in layout and geometry of the bevel and collective gears. Also, it handles only about half of the power of the ALH MGB. The first series of ALH MGBs were spectacular failures – these would not even last one hour of ground run on the Ground Test Vehicle (GTV). After every ground run, shed gear material would be found on the magnetic plugs indicating commencement of gear teeth failures. Initially ZF’s MGBs stubbornly refused to improve despite various efforts and this threatened to bring the whole project literally and figuratively to a grinding halt. After MBB (and ZF) left, it took our dedicated in-house transmission team many years of sweat and hard work, to recover the situation by going back to the drawing board, experiment with several remedial measures and introduce numerous modifications, so as to gradually bring the MGB to production standard. Obviously, this caused severe delays in the project.

ARIS Vibration Dampers

(a) Based on MBB’s recommendations, it had been decided to introduce a new high-tech three-axis vibration damping system to attenuate main rotor vibrations. There are four ARIS (Anti Resonance Isolation System) dampers and the MGB is mounted on these to isolate vibrations developed by the main rotor from the fuselage. Like the MGB, the initial ARIS design by MBB was another spectacular failure. All four ARIS failed halfway through the first flight itself and on return, all the four ARIS’s composite diaphragms were found cracked. Like the MGB, the ARIS proved to be another extremely difficult design failure to correct. Despite initial modifications, the ARIS springs used to routinely fail within 10 hours of flight. Again after MBB left, it was another herculean task again taken on by our in-house vibration analyses group to re-design, experiment and gradually bring the ARIS to a standard suited for production aircraft.

(b) Subsequently, it was learnt that MBB had worked in parallel on another version of vibration isolators and had installed a simpler two-axis SARIB vibration dampers on their Tiger attack helicopter, which uses a main rotor similar to the ALH. During an informal interaction many years later with MBB’s then chief designer for ALH in India, he candidly indicated to this author that the ARIS in his opinion was not an easy concept to implement and should not have been used for a first-time project like the ALH. Here it would appear that there was an attempt by MBB to experiment with an uncertain high-risk design option on our project.

Subsequently, it was learnt that MBB had worked in parallel on another version of vibration isolators and had installed a simpler two-axis SARIB vibration dampers on their Tiger attack helicopter, which uses a main rotor similar to the ALH. During an informal interaction many years later with MBB’s then chief designer for ALH in India, he candidly indicated to this author that the ARIS in his opinion was not an easy concept to implement and should not have been used for a first-time project like the ALH. Here it would appear that there was an attempt by MBB to experiment with an uncertain high-risk design option on our project.

This is the negative side of JV when other partner knows that you have no indigenous project of your own.

As far as LCA is concerned HAL+DRDO+ADA is responsible for only 30 % in delay, 50% responsibility lies with Air Force who from time to time tried to sabotage the project (not whole Air Force but a specific lobby) and rest 20% due to external factors like sanctions.
 
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