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this shchinese dude(if he is) is everywhere...

about "sky will be ours"... sky is still yours.... its just what you want to do with it... sky is for every pne in the world except may be china... because the people over there will have to wait for 2 decades....:chilli:
 
either we are decades behind or more why it interest you so much that most of you comment or on Indian defence. If you are so superior which I am not denying why are you loosing sleep on our work.

pointing out the clear misunderstanding regarding such basic military gears is an interesting and important part of the online discussion.

are you suggesting I am not allowed to point out such clear misunderstandings just because of india's backwards?
 
Now this report about Kaveri , note the present TOT %..

Broadsword: Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters

Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters


by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 12th Dec 09


In what was nominated in 1976 as the Fight of the Year, boxing legend, George Foreman, staggered to his feet after being twice knocked down by Ron Lyle, to flatten Lyle with a stunning knockout punch. If the Ministry of Defence has its way, India’s Kaveri engine, bitterly criticised as underpowered even after two decades of development, could recover to do a Foreman on its two world-class rivals.


Meant to power the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), the Kaveri was heading for a quiet burial after completing flight tests that are underway in Russia. In its place, two alternatives were short-listed: the Eurojet EJ200, and the General Electric F-414 engines. A final choice was expected within weeks.


But, unexpectedly, the Kaveri has gotten off the floor. Business Standard has learned that the MoD --- apprehending that Eurojet and GE would hang back from providing India with critical engine technologies, even if Transfer of Technology (ToT) was mandated in a purchase contract --- now wants to co-develop an engine in India rather than manufacturing one under licence. The DRDO’s Gas Turbine and Research Establishment (GTRE), which has a design partnership with French engine-maker, Snecma, has been asked to design a more powerful Kaveri successor.


A Snecma-GTRE joint venture to develop the upgraded Kaveri is likely to be announced during President Nikolas Sarkozy’s visit to India in early 2010.:what:


Minister of State for Defence, Dr Pallam Raju, has confirmed to Business Standard, “It is important for India to have indigenous capabilities in engine design. And having invested so many man-hours of work into the design of the Kaveri engine, it would be a national waste to fritter away or dilute those capabilities:agree:…. (Snecma) is willing to co-develop an engine with us; they are willing to go beyond just transfer of technology. It is a value-added offer that gives us better technology than what we would get from ToT from Eurojet or GE.”


Amongst the key engine technologies that India needs is that for Single Crystal Blades, which significantly enhance turbine performance within the incandescent confines of a jet engine combustion chamber. The MoD suspects that this technology, worth billions of dollars, will not be fully transferred by Eurojet or by GE.


An MoD official, who is closely involved in deciding between the EJ200 and the F-414, explains this apprehension: “The tender stipulates that 50% of the technology must be transferred to India. But the vendor will lump together a bunch of low-end technologies that might add up to 50%. What we want is one or two high-end technologies:angry:


GTRE designers say that it would take about 4 years to co-develop an engine with Snecma, somewhat longer than the 3-year time frame in which the EJ200 or F-414 would start being delivered. Based upon the performance of the Kaveri flight in the ongoing flight tests in Russia, GTRE sources are confident that, “Snecma-GTRE is fully capable of producing an engine as good as the F-414 and the EJ-200.”

That will involve improving from the current Kaveri’s maximum thrust of 65 Kilo Newtons (KN), to the 95 KN that the EJ200 and F-414 develop.


While Snecma remains tight-lipped, it is aware of the challenges in such a project. Business Standard has learned that Snecma had conducted a Technical Audit of the Kaveri programme in 1998, identifying design challenges that included developing materials that could withstand the combustion chamber temperatures of around 2000 degrees centigrade.


While the MoD is trusting Snecma to help GTRE in overcoming these challenges, it is also aware of the Kaveri’s unenviable record of time and cost overruns. The MoD is still considering whether to put all its eggs in the GTRE-Snecma basket or to go ahead on a parallel track, choosing either the EJ200, or the GE F-414, as insurance against further delays.

This what i have been saying all along.

Lets get the Rafael for MMRCA. Get SCHEMA fully on board with this venture.

Then Install The Kaveri Enine in both the Rafael and LCA.

Dassault has also offered to fit the Kaveri engine into the Rafale, which, if chosen, which would greatly improve commonality with the Tejas aircraft that will enter service into the IAF

a 95 kt trust, is that with or without After burners.

For that matter is the New engine going to be an after burning engine
 
This what i have been saying all along.

Lets get the Rafael for MMRCA. Get SCHEMA fully on board with this venture.

Then Install The Kaveri Enine in both the Rafael and LCA.



a 95 kt trust, is that with or without After burners.

For that matter is the New engine going to be an after burning engine

It will be ideal if it is possible...

But Kaveri still atleast 4 years away and i don't think it will be so simple to put a new engine like kaveri into rafale... it will take lot of time and IAF cann't wiat that long , so for now Rafale should come with M-88-3(90KN),may in future we can integrate Kaveri with Rafale..

As i say That's why IAf is saying Engine Procurement (EJ or EPE) is not related to MMRCA.

May be this possiblity is also in the mind of both IAF/MOD and french governmet..

First JV for engine then Possibly for Rafale to decrease the cost...
 
:smokin:

how you get the processor for LCA's fire control computer? harvest from trees? the general public in india deserve to know such details after funding the project for 25 years.

for example, for our J-10, the fire control computer is a domestic made one, the north-west uni (not the US one, Chinese north west uni) did it. such facts are being discussed on our military forums for long.

how about ask the same question? whether the fire control computer is domestically sourced/built?
 
:smokin:

how you get the processor for LCA's fire control computer? harvest from trees? the general public in india deserve to know such details after funding the project for 25 years.

I never conceded that processor for LCA's for fire control computer ever harvested by India, it is you who barking about its foriegn involvement, then please come foreward give conclusive evidence about foriegn involvement according to you for kind general knowledege of Indian public.

for example, for our J-10, the fire control computer is a domestic made one, the north-west uni (not the US one, Chinese north west uni) did it. such facts are being discussed on our military forums for long.

how about ask the same question? whether the fire control computer is domestically sourced/built?

I never bother about that since I never conceded ever in my previous post, if you are so sure about its foriegn hand in fire control system of Tejas then go and do some research and give us some evidence about it rather then asking some shitty questions, else just shut up!
 
I never bother about that since I never conceded ever in my previous post, if you are so sure about its foriegn hand in fire control system of Tejas then go and do some research and give us some evidence about it rather then asking some shitty questions, else just shut up!

foreign hands are everywhere in your defence projects. for example, the mumbai class involved equipments/components from a dozen country. this is your problem, deal with it.

last month, a photo showing two foreign made components (low tech, low cost, can be made by over 100 companies in China) on our missiles are being circled on the internet. we observed outrages from people.

this is our major difference - we rely on no one and that is the reason why we have J-10/FC-1/J-11/J-11B/JH-7A in active service while you are still dreaming about the LCA's future.



have a look, we never tolerate such crap in our country.

btw, these two components costs less than a hundred $ at best.
 
Tejas engine offset offers come in IDRW.ORG

European aerospace company Eurojet and America’s General Electric submitted offset proposals for their bids for light combat aircraft Tejas engines to the ministry of defence on Friday, a day before the deadline expires December 12.The Indian government invites offset proposals from bidders of defence and civil aircraft deals.
An offset obligation is expected to be discharged through direct purchases or by executing export orders for defence products and components manufactured by or services provided by Indian defence industries. In many instances, it also involves technology transfer and training for military requirements.

As per the defence procurement policy 2006, 30-50% offset obligation is mandatory for the winner of the defence deal. There are two offset proposals — technical and commercial — submitted by each bidder, which are opened after completion of technical and commercial evaluations. For instance, technical offset proposal is opened after the technical evaluation and commercial offset offer after commercial evaluation.

Since the offset programme of the Indian government will require transfer of the key technology, the two aerospace companies need clearances from their respectively governments or regional economic organisations.

Apparently, Eurojet, which will be supplying its EJ200 for the new LCA Tejas, has got clearance from Nato Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency (Netma) for the transfer of “key technology” under the offset programme.

“In their proposal, they (Eurojet) have accepted to transfer key technology. They have also mentioned in the same note they can discuss transfer of other technologies too,” the source said.

According to him, if the European engine maker offers 100% transfer of technology, the price of its bid would shoot up; “Then its bid would not be competitive.”Eurojet has said it would form a joint venture with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd or some private company to fulfill its offset obligation.

GE, which will supply the F-414 engine, is also said to have acquired the approval of the US government for technology transfer for the LCA programme. The two companies that have bid for the $750 million order for 99 engines for Tejas.
 
how much did you suck russians dick for engines? :hitwall:

As an Indian, unless India is more advance than China when it comes to engine development, its not a good idea ask him about it. Also, Shchinese is just rying to rile you up. Do not let him. After many years of working on developing an airplane for the first time, India is very close on coming up with an indigenous plane, keep up the good work. Both China and India are relatively backward on technology, including aviation technology. Its like two kids in a class of 40 people fighting over who is the 10th smartest kid in the class. Unless if China or India can build the best plane, its no point to boast. I do not see Americans boast in this forum Why, because there is no need too? Also, in my opinion, besides Shchinese, most Chinese do not tell Indians how China's tech is more advance than India's. It appear that in this forum, most Indian posters are more insecure than Chinese ones here.
 
No point replying to garbage, just keep the updates on the LCA coming!

:cheers:
 
Broadsword: Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters

The Kaveri on a test bed at GTRE, Bangalore, readying for its despatch to Russia for altitude and flight tests. The testing, near Moscow, is going well, say GTRE officials.

Business Standard, 12th Dec 09

In what was nominated in 1976 as the Fight of the Year, boxing legend, George Foreman, staggered to his feet after being twice knocked down by Ron Lyle, to flatten Lyle with a stunning knockout punch. If the Ministry of Defence has its way, India’s Kaveri engine, bitterly criticised as underpowered even after two decades of development, could recover to do a Foreman on its two world-class rivals.

Meant to power the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), the Kaveri was heading for a quiet burial after completing flight tests that are underway in Russia. In its place, two alternatives were short-listed: the Eurojet EJ200, and the General Electric F-414 engines. A final choice was expected within weeks.

But, unexpectedly, the Kaveri has gotten off the floor. Business Standard has learned that the MoD --- apprehending that Eurojet and GE would hang back from providing India with critical engine technologies, even if Transfer of Technology (ToT) was mandated in a purchase contract --- now wants to co-develop an engine in India rather than manufacturing one under licence. The DRDO’s Gas Turbine and Research Establishment (GTRE), which has a design partnership with French engine-maker, Snecma, has been asked to design a more powerful Kaveri successor.

A Snecma-GTRE joint venture to develop the upgraded Kaveri is likely to be announced during President Nikolas Sarkozy’s visit to India in early 2010.

Minister of State for Defence, Dr Pallam Raju, has confirmed to Business Standard, “It is important for India to have indigenous capabilities in engine design. And having invested so many man-hours of work into the design of the Kaveri engine, it would be a national waste to fritter away or dilute those capabilities…. (Snecma) is willing to co-develop an engine with us; they are willing to go beyond just transfer of technology. It is a value-added offer that gives us better technology than what we would get from ToT from Eurojet or GE.”

Amongst the key engine technologies that India needs is that for Single Crystal Blades, which significantly enhance turbine performance within the incandescent confines of a jet engine combustion chamber. The MoD suspects that this technology, worth billions of dollars, will not be fully transferred by Eurojet or by GE.

An MoD official, who is closely involved in deciding between the EJ200 and the F-414, explains this apprehension: “The tender stipulates that 50% of the technology must be transferred to India. But the vendor will lump together a bunch of low-end technologies that might add up to 50%. What we want is one or two high-end technologies.”

GTRE designers say that it would take about 4 years to co-develop an engine with Snecma, somewhat longer than the 3-year time frame in which the EJ200 or F-414 would start being delivered. Based upon the performance of the Kaveri flight in the ongoing flight tests in Russia, GTRE sources are confident that, “Snecma-GTRE is fully capable of producing an engine as good as the F-414 and the EJ-200.”

That will involve improving from the current Kaveri’s maximum thrust of 65 Kilo Newtons (KN), to the 95 KN that the EJ200 and F-414 develop.

While Snecma remains tight-lipped, it is aware of the challenges in such a project. Business Standard has learned that Snecma had conducted a Technical Audit of the Kaveri programme in 1998, identifying design challenges that included developing materials that could withstand the combustion chamber temperatures of around 2000 degrees centigrade.

While the MoD is trusting Snecma to help GTRE in overcoming these challenges, it is also aware of the Kaveri’s unenviable record of time and cost overruns. The MoD is still considering whether to put all its eggs in the GTRE-Snecma basket or to go ahead on a parallel track, choosing either the EJ200, or the GE F-414, as insurance against further delays.
 
PIB Press Release

The proposal on the Kaveri-Snecma engine joint venture for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is under consideration of the Government.

Request for Proposal (RFP) for procuring 99 engines have been sent to two short-listed engine manufacturers, namely GE F414 from General Electric Aviation, USA and EJ200 from Eurojet Germany.

The engine houses have responded to the RFP. Both Commercial and technical responses have been received for procurement of 99 engines along with Transfer of Technology.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Gajanan D Babar and others in Lok Sabha today.



---------------------------

So IAF/MOD may be going parallely with the GE/EJ and Snecma/GTRE.
 
those supporting the jf 17.... thinking they got it made quickly ... remember is classified as almost 4 gen fighter .... i repeat almost. and ur delievery is 2012 to 2014. the chinese have not decided to use it for themselves. basically they sell u cheap and copycat stuff with probably no quality and u held it high ....

we make stuff.. fail .. but make it best in the end ... from dhanush .. akash ... astra etc .. which have been failures but now a powerful sucess. lca mark 2 will be success .

Your understanding of military aviation is zero. Go get a better understanding and then come back.
 
those who criticize the LCA .. saying its so old project... and still going on are seriously fools who do not know the history

building a 4.5 generation ac is no joke or childs play

breaking news, india started 4.5 generation fighter R&D 30 years ago, well ahead of the US and Russia.

LCA is 2.5 generation at best. It is more like our L-15.

Hongdu L-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LCA is worse than L-15 from all spec.
 
Is this guy unbanned intentionally time and again to write crap ?

Look at the volume of crap he writes everywhere and makes fun of a good discussion forum.
 
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