HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sancho]

he is a informed guy.

He might be informed, but as in the C17 issue recently, he propably is talking about old / total requirements. IAF will not buy 200 x LCAs, simply by the fact that it would take far too long to produce it. Even the initial 40 + 80 order is not expected to be available before 2022 and by a time, when the 126 MMRCAs could be in the final delivery stage, which means going for the optionals and inducting them at the same time as the LCA MK2 that are now on order makes more sense, then waiting longer just to add more LCAs that also are far less capable. And as I said before, in exactly that time IAF will also induct FGFA, Rustom H and maybe is even close to Aura and in the development of AMCA. LCA simply has the wrong timing now, which puts it in far too much competition and with far too less capability to justify that numbers. The total LCA procurements, including N-LCAs could be around 200 and maybe even the 2 x MK1 squads might be replaced with propper MK2 squads, but that still doesn't get it to 200 in IAF.

 

[ANPP]

he is a informed guy. He will soon publish his latest interview with Dr. Avinash Chandra. and corresponding videos on youtube. There you can find answers to some of your questions. And by the way he posted the image of INS ARIHANT in may what NDTV yesterday published.

Than I think I dont any reasonable point to oppose the mmrca deal. I hope that he is right.

 

[proud_indian]

Than I think I dont any reasonable point to oppose the mmrca deal. I hope that he is right.

Why do you oppose MMRCA anyway?

 

[GORKHALI]

"Deserving"!!! Giving an award to people who messed up so much and that even for exactly the project that the PM actually asked them to provide earlier is just laughable and for sure not motivating at all.

Going by your idea is disastrous for any nation institute,PM asked the whole DRDO to get their act together but that doesn't make individual contributor less credible.There are people who worked upon specific equipment for LCA, Arjun or Naval Ships at good time frame and in a very efficient way.

 

[sancho]

Going by your idea is disastrous for any nation institute,PM asked the whole DRDO to get their act together but that doesn't make individual contributor less credible.

And we all know which development he meant, so it's completely pointless to criticize them for the delayed delivery (which is actually the right thing to do and he should have done it much stronger), but at the same time give them an award for:

"for their contribution in the design, development and certification of the Tejas aircraft

Not for Arjun, ships or other things, but EXACTLY those things at LCA he wanted to urge DRDO to do better. LCA is suffering from designs flaws, it's development and certification is delayed for years, development of it's subsystems even failed and they give them an award? That is not only making the PM look bad, but also makes this award worthless, if they don't actually give them for people and projects that actually would deserve it. This is just another chance for DRDO to celebrate itself and do as if they have achieved something, when they still haven't!
It's like awarding HAL for the design and development of IJT, when it has major problems, is delayed and still not useful for the forces. Would be just as pointless don't you think?

 

[Sergi]

And we all know which development he meant, so it's completely pointless to criticize them for the delayed delivery (which is actually the right thing to do and he should have done it much stronger), but at the same time give them an award for:

Not for Arjun, ships or other things, but EXACTLY those things at LCA he wanted to urge DRDO to do better. LCA is suffering from designs flaws, it's development and certification is delayed for years, development of it's subsystems even failed and they give them an award? That is not only making the PM look bad, but also makes this award worthless, if they don't actually give them for people and projects that actually would deserve it. This is just another chance for DRDO to celebrate itself and do as if they have achieved something, when they still haven't!
It's like awarding HAL for the design and development of IJT, when it has major problems, is delayed and still not useful for the forces. Would be just as pointless don't you think?

Its better that we shelve Mark-2 development and jump to Mark-3 or mini-FGFA. Cause by the time MK-2 become fully operational its worth in IAF will be questionable.

BTW @sancho @Abingdonboy : You tired posting on PMs page/website ???
I think it will be better option to convey him what people think of LCA and let him ask the questions we ask him to development team

 

[ANPP]

Why do you oppose MMRCA anyway?

Because it will kill LCA as well AMCA project.

 

[sancho]

Its better that we shelve Mark-2 development and jump to Mark-3

NOOO buddy, please don't start with that. There are enough people on BR that are dreaming about "simply" switching from a single engine LCA MK1 to a twin engined LCA MK3, as if it's that easy. So don't let us start with that here too.

We need to finish LCA as a project, not only the MK1 version but also to keep further fixing and improving it, since the prime advantage of it is, that it gives as highly valuable know how and experience of developing, producing, inducting, upgrading indigenous fighters and techs. So LCA is far too big to fail for India, even if it's operational importance for our forces is not that big anymore!
We need MK2 in IAF, but it could had been done easier and faster, if we would had kept IN and N-LCA out of it. But it must be developed and inducted and at some point even an MK3 upgrade will come, although not as a major re-design as many think, but as a normal life extention and capability increase of the fighter, just as we did it with other fighters too.

You tired posting on PMs page/website ???
I think it will be better option to convey him what people think of LCA and let him ask the questions we ask him to development team

Not sure about @Abingdonboy but I haven't and when I see the rather mild ways he now convey his "critical remarks" (see his statements on rape cases or now on delivering LCA), I don't think there will be much changes.

 

[Sergi]

NOOO buddy, please don't start with that. There are enough people on BR that are dreaming about "simply" switching from a single engine LCA MK1 to a twin engined LCA MK3, as if it's that easy. So don't let us start with that here too.

then you are missing point. MK-3 concept. what the f that might be. Mr sarsawar said application on 5th gen tech in LCA MK2 is MK-3 !!!!! I hope you can google that !!!!!
My only point ;from another thread ; is to add internal weapon stations to LCA. We are modifying it anyway in long 3 years !!!!!! in long terms so it can be relevant.

Not sure about @Abingdonboy but I haven't and when I see the rather mild ways he now convey his "critical remarks" (see his statements on rape cases or now on delivering LCA), I don't think there will be much changes.

You should. Lets hope something good came out of it. I will be doing same. May be we can pool an opinion so PM can check facts and fictions.

@sancho @Kinetic @SpArK @GORKHALI @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @he-man @Abingdonboy @arp2041 @AGENT 47 & @ every Indian our PM is extending his ears for opinions lets make sure he hear what he needs to
No matter what happens we need to convey Him our thoughts.
This is the site
MyGov - A Platform for Citizen Engagement towards Good Governance in India

 

[sancho]

then you are missing point. MK-3 concept. what the f that might be. Mr sarsawar said application on 5th gen tech in LCA MK2 is MK-3 !!!!! I hope you can google that !!!!!

NOOOOOOO, that's even worse!!! I though we would be beyond that nutjob and his pointless dreams! No need to google I know what he said, but I also know what he meant. He talked about integrating 5th gen avionics and made it sound like LCA could be developed to a stealth fighter or so, when all he actually meant was, integrating a single screen touch display to LCA in future, something like the F35 or the Silent Hornet are meant to get. But that's just the BS he used to provide to Indian media, that was happy to spread the nonsense. A touchscrceen doesn't make LCAs airframe stealthy, doesn't make it carry all the fuel and weapons internally, therefor LCA will never be even close to 5th generation.

My only point ;from another thread ; is to add internal weapon stations to LCA.

You can't integrate weapon bays and even a weapon pod will be next to impossible because of the size limitations of the centerline station (same reason why the fueltank is smaller than the one at the wings). The fact that they have to strengthen and widen the airframe to integrate the new engine, fuel tanks and some avionics shows how limited the space is.

You should. Lets hope something good came out of it. I will be doing same. May be we can pool an opinion so PM can check facts and fictions.

@ every Indian our PM is extending his ears for opinions lets make sure he hear what he needs to
No matter what happens we need to convey Him our thoughts.
This is the site
MyGov - A Platform for Citizen Engagement towards Good Governance in India

Sounds good!

 

[amygdaloideum]

He might be informed, but as in the C17 issue recently, he propably is talking about old / total requirements. IAF will not buy 200 x LCAs, simply by the fact that it would take far too long to produce it. Even the initial 40 + 80 order is not expected to be available before 2022 and by a time, when the 126 MMRCAs could be in the final delivery stage, which means going for the optionals and inducting them at the same time as the LCA MK2 that are now on order makes more sense, then waiting longer just to add more LCAs that also are far less capable. And as I said before, in exactly that time IAF will also induct FGFA, Rustom H and maybe is even close to Aura and in the development of AMCA. LCA simply has the wrong timing now, which puts it in far too much competition and with far too less capability to justify that numbers. The total LCA procurements, including N-LCAs could be around 200 and maybe even the 2 x MK1 squads might be replaced with propper MK2 squads, but that still doesn't get it to 200 in IAF.

do you think hal/drdo/ada/(whatever DPSU) are capable of delivering tejas mk2 on time?
will they even be relevant when inducted?
PS-what is your opinion about the stratpost discussion video on tejas?

 

[sancho]

@Sergi

Ok, here are my top 3 questions!

1) If IN admits that N-LCA is just a medicore fighter, that won't be very capable and if IAF basically has no requirement for an AMCA, why do we waste time and money on these developments? Why not LCA only for IAF and AMCA only for IN, where each fighter offers the most benefit?

2) If the indigenous AESA is not ready in time till the first LCA MK2 will be produced, why not take the AESA of the MMRCA and benefit from commonality, instead making LCA MK2 suffer from using inferior technology?

3) Why not take advantage of the Maitri SAM development, to use the missile as a WVR missile to replace R73 missiles from LCA and all Russian fighters? Minimum changes, further applications => lower unit cost and more independence from imported missiles!

do you think hal/drdo/ada/(whatever DPSU) are capable of delivering tejas mk2 on time?
will they even be relevant when inducted?

On time? Depends on how fast they will get a propper MK2 prototype and the engine integrated. Relevent in operational terms in our forces no, since they always were only considered to be the low end. But in the time when the MK2 will arrive, most of the possible roles of an LCA will be taken over by drones, leaving only air policing roles. For many export customers, a light 4.5th generation fighter, that is cost-effective and includes proven western engines would be a good choice though, but the mix of US engines and Israeli avionics or weapons will pose export limitations.
But above operational importance and export chances, it remains to be the most important development of our aero sector, since it sets the base for any future development. Be it for materials, coatings, avionics and EW, where we already gained some good knowledge, or in fighter design, radar and engine developments, where we still have a lot to learn. Everything is dependent on it and not only finishing LCA but keep further improving is a must!

 

[amygdaloideum]

On time? Depends on how fast they will get a propper MK2 prototype and the engine integrated. Relevent in operational terms in our forces no, since they always were only considered to be the low end. But in the time when the MK2 will arrive, most of the possible roles of an LCA will be taken over by drones, leaving only air policing roles. For many export customers, a light 4.5th generation fighter, that is cost-effective and includes proven western engines would be a good choice though, but the mix of US engines and Israeli avionics or weapons will pose export limitations.
But above operational importance and export chances, it remains to be the most important development of our aero sector, since it sets the base for any future development. Be it for materials, coatings, avionics and EW, where we already gained some good knowledge, or in fighter design, radar and engine developments, where we still have a lot to learn. Everything is dependent on it and not only finishing LCA but keep further improving is a must!

whats the point in developing something irrelevant?
just for the sake of pride ?!!
why not pick up the positives from MK1 and start on something new as most air chiefs suggested.
TBH,,,i feel with all the tall claims MK2 may as well follow the kaveri GTRE road,or arrive at a time when IAF has no use for it

 

[Anony]

do you think hal/drdo/ada/(whatever DPSU) are capable of delivering tejas mk2 on time?
will they even be relevant when inducted?
PS-what is your opinion about the stratpost discussion video on tejas?

In that case even Rafale will not be relevant as even if the deal get signed today, 4 out of 6 squadron will enter service post 2020.

There will not be much difference in tech level of these two fighters post 2020

 

[amygdaloideum]

There will not be much difference in tech level of these two fighters post 2020

rafale is in active service while mk2 is on paper,,(not even mk1 in service yet)
no comparison