HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Basel]

What surprise me about the article is that it says LCA's stealth and after that talk about that because it is made of composite material, he don't know that it is not even shaped to be stealth, it may be stealthy specially from front but use of composite material does not mean that they are used for stealth they also reduce weight while allowing similar or increased strength in structure.

 

[Superboy]

There are only two other planes in the class as Tejas. Namely, they are JF-17 and Gripen, both of which are operational with operational squadrons. Until Tejas gets its first operational squadron, it cannot be said to be operational in any sense of the word. JF-17 has DSI, a true 21st century technology. Tejas is yet to be equipped with DSI.

 

[Speeder 2]

errr...because it is the only one in its class?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[Guynextdoor2]

should we use this date for our counter argument of "So long development phase" type argument from the next time???cause,most of the time members use 1983 as the year when making of Tejas actually started.

Not just that, gets my blood boling when Indian media cries '2500 Crores spent! That's HALF A BILLION DOLLARS. Where in the world do you get an all composite 4.5 Gen fighter integrating AESA and whatnot at that amount?

We are not selling Sukhois. We might end up buying more.

The early SU 30s (not the MKIs) are being sold I beleieve. Though all MKIs will remain in service.

There are only two other planes in the class as Tejas. Namely, they are JF-17 and Gripen, both of which are operational with operational squadrons. Until Tejas gets its first operational squadron, it cannot be said to be operational in any sense of the word. JF-17 has DSI, a true 21st century technology. Tejas is yet to be equipped with DSI.

JF 17 is a plane from an era far gone. If all that we wanted to do with a plane made of aircraft aluminium, known limitations we would have rolled it out as fast as you guys did. We didn't have to spend time learning composite design, getting autoclave production lines and AESA radars etc. Build one with Aircraft Alumnium, put in known MMR and other tech and delcare it operational- piece of cake. Because of our current approach the future of Indian aviation is very differemt- all planes and helos are built of composites, good work on radar, contributed to our AEW, good work on mastering control laws and so on.

 

[armchairPrivate]

The LCA Tejas is the best in its class.
What class is that? A class of its own. Ir is no class.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

What surprise me about the article is that it says LCA's stealth and after that talk about that because it is made of composite material, he don't know that it is not even shaped to be stealth, it may be stealthy specially from front but use of composite material does not mean that they are used for stealth they also reduce weight while allowing similar or increased strength in structure.

Composites also reduce overall reflection. It is 'stealthier' because of this as more low observable than usual. And yes, LCA stealth charateristics were studied extensively. It's not deisgned to be like a 'humming bird' in the sky but is generally a lot lower than usual.

The LCA Tejas is the best in its class.
What class is that? A class of its own. Ir is no class.

You don't even have an aircraft industry.

 

[Secur]

JF 17 is a plane from an era far gone. If all that we wanted to do with a plane made of aircraft aluminium, known limitations we would have rolled it out as fast as you guys did. We didn't have to spend time learning composite design, getting autoclave production lines and AESA radars etc. Build one with Aircraft Alumnium, put in known MMR and other tech and delcare it operational- piece of cake. Because of our current approach the future of Indian aviation is very differemt- all planes and helos are built of composites, good work on radar, contributed to our AEW, good work on mastering control laws and so on.

Really ? How did you reach that conclusion ? Start with a comparison proving the " era far gone " . What do you know about the JF-17 radar , DSI , FBW controls , EW suite , weapons , capabilities etc even ? Yes , its body is mostly made of Al , but still composites are used whose content are going to improve in future Blocks . Also Composites aren't something which are essential for any aircraft by any chance - weight/RCS reduction are the only benefit . It appears that you aren't even aware of the criteria for fourth generation aircraft .

P.S Do enlighten me , where the engine , radar etc of LCA Tejas are coming from today , if making an aircraft like JFT would have been a piece of cake as per you and somehow you opted for far better and difficult path but still ended up doing the same import and integrate approach ? Whats the percent of indigenous content in that aircraft ? Your contributions in that programme are higher , sure , but the essentials are still being imported , speaks volumes .

 

[cirr]

Another feel good article？

When will India stop congratulating itself and start facing the reality：India is a backward country，especially when it comes to defence industry，for it then has to compare itself with the world's best？

A tiny part of LCA is Indian。It is mostly American，Israelis，Russian、European etc。

Hey，one might even find some Japanese parts and components now that India and Japan are axis。

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Really ? How did you reach that conclusion ? Start with a comparison proving the " era far gone " . What do you know about the JF-17 radar , DSI , FBW controls , EW suite , weapons , capabilities etc even ? Yes , its body is mostly made of Al , but still composites are used whose content are going to improve in future Blocks . Also Composites aren't something which are essential for any aircraft by any chance - weight/RCS reduction are the only benefit . It appears that you aren't even aware of the criteria for fourth generation aircraft .

P.S Do enlighten me , where the engine , radar etc of LCA Tejas are coming from today , if making an aircraft like JFT would have been a piece of cake as per you and somehow you opted for far better and difficult path but still ended up doing the same import and integrate approach ? Whats the percent of indigenous content in that aircraft ? Your contributions in that programme are higher , sure , but the essentials are still being imported , speaks volumes .

Admitedly the projects on engines, radars etc. are facing a few...ahem...delays. But that's natural in a complex project like LCA . Make no mistakes EACH ONE will eventually be completed. You don't even have programs running for many of this. That's why the LCA is better as a program- it has temporarily decided to integrate but will continue capability building.

But your argument on composites being just 'weight and RCS reduction' are inadequate. Apart from the above, the maintainence needed significantly lesser for a composite frame. Not just from corrosion POV but no revits etc. need be maintained. And a big fallacy is that just because you have a few components/ structures made of composites you have somehow made a big difference. No- a hell of a lot of difference between having a few parts made and most of the plane actually built out of it.

You're talking about FBW controls etc.- those are the kinds of capabilities that LCA has given plentifully (having spent many years working on them especially after the sanctions). Don't tell me that just coz your engineers spend a bit of time helping their chinese counterparts it's given great capaility strengths to you. The chinese have had expertise in this area for long- they're just transferring it to JF 17 that's all.

Another feel good article？

When will India stop congratulating itself and start facing the reality：India is a backward country，especially when it comes to defence industry，for it then has to compare itself with the world's best？

A tiny part of LCA is Indian。It is mostly American，Israelis，Russian、European etc。

Hey，one might even find some Japanese parts and components now that India and Japan are axis。

When will you stop crashing our party?

 

[WAR-rior]

AMCA is in the shelves now. India might not make that plane if it already have PAKFA.



True. First place in the competition of one. And it take India over 30 years to build this plane.
Don't expect MKII until 2020 at earliest.

So convinient rite? Do u even put ur braincells to understand why India took 2 decades, etc etc.

India today has money to invest in ints research unlike before. So dont tell what India can and cant on basis of 2,3 decades back. Hell, even chinese dint make a shit before 2000. All their achievements started to roll in 21st century.

Also, AMCA is medium and FGFA and Su-50 are Heavy Combat Planes.

WHY YOU ALWAYS COMPARE APPLES AND ORANGES?

 

[Secur]

Until Tejas gets its first operational squadron, it cannot be said to be operational in any sense of the word. JF-17 has DSI, a true 21st century technology. Tejas is yet to be equipped with DSI.

Well , I do not think anybody has claimed the Tejas is operational , it still has a long way to go for that , considering that it has only been a week , when it obtained the Initial Operating Clearance the second , the aircraft will only get the Final Operational Clearance in 2015 . Diverterless Sonic Intake cant be equipped , its by design .

Admitedly the projects on engines, radars etc. are facing a few...ahem...delays. But that's natural in a complex project like LCA . Make no mistakes EACH ONE will eventually be completed. You don't even have programs running for many of this. That's why the LCA is better as a program- it has temporarily decided to integrate.

But your argument on composites being just 'weight and RCS reduction' are inadequate. Apart from the above, the maintainence needed significantly lesser for a composite frame. Not just from corrosion POV but no revits etc. need be maintained. And a big fallacy is that just because you have a few components/ structures made of composites you have somehow made a big difference. No- a hell of a lot of difference between having a few parts made and most of the plane actually built out of it.

You're talking about FBW controls etc.- those are the kinds of capabilities that LCA has given plentifully (having spent many years working on them especially after the sanctions). Don't tell me that just coz your engineers spend a bit of time helping their chinese counterparts it's given great capaility strengths to you. The chinese have had expertise in this area for long- they're just transferring it to JF 17 that's all.

I am still waiting for you to prove the " an aircraft from an era far gone " you said in your first post with an intent to troll , put up a comparison and enlighten us all , based on a childlish Al body argument . Lets see , when it happens . A lot of your things are facing delays and there's no end in sight . The complex project had enough time , money and resources spent and vested in , to sort out the complexities . You had an advantage there in terms of that , we didn't . There's no temporary integration if you understand the whole thing , these aircraft are going into production with the same components ( yes its freezed for now ) and even the LCA MK II per current reports , will use the same foreign engine and radar if DRDO fails to deliver on the promise again for AESA radar .

My simple argument was that composite body isn't an essential requirement for a fourth generation aircraft , yes it has its benefits but we chose a different approach . JF-17 will increase the percentage of composites gradually in Block-II - the first of which will be rolled out in June 2014 . Well , I can assure you that its not a hell of a difference you have made by just making airframe from 45% composites . The RCS reduction is compensated by the DSI in Thunder . The weight reduction is being worked upon , either by WS-13 engine and increasing the composite .

Every modern aircraft has it - the point being ? I asked you about the declared too easy approach , the JFT was faster in development because of its management not because it was cutting corners somehow . You may have chosen a different approach but in the end , a total and complete Transfer of Technology is being transferred to Pakistan , we will get the expertise in the field . All of it , except the engine of course , currently building about 58% ( complete avionics ) of the aircraft , slated to go to 75% by 2015 at PAC , Kamra . I am not denying that the Thunder isn't a indigenous project - at best its a joint development .

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[faithfulguy]

Not just that, gets my blood boling when Indian media cries '2500 Crores spent! That's HALF A BILLION DOLLARS. Where in the world do you get an all composite 4.5 Gen fighter integrating AESA and whatnot at that amount?



The early SU 30s (not the MKIs) are being sold I beleieve. Though all MKIs will remain in service.



JF 17 is a plane from an era far gone. If all that we wanted to do with a plane made of aircraft aluminium, known limitations we would have rolled it out as fast as you guys did. We didn't have to spend time learning composite design, getting autoclave production lines and AESA radars etc. Build one with Aircraft Alumnium, put in known MMR and other tech and delcare it operational- piece of cake. Because of our current approach the future of Indian aviation is very differemt- all planes and helos are built of composites, good work on radar, contributed to our AEW, good work on mastering control laws and so on.

Are you trying to fool people that LCA has AESA radar? Or are you so ignorant yourself.

 

[Superboy]

What's the point of digital quadruplex FBW and composite materials when Tejas is only capable of Mach 1.6 and 7g?