HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sudhir007]

Tejas squads include 20 fighters each, that's why the first ordered 2 x MK1 squads include 40 x fighters.



Yes, disappointing but achievable, maybe some more might be added with Kaveri K10 after that too, because by 2022 the engine is planned to replace GE 404 IN of the MK1s.

Hi sancho
can you tell me is kaveri is worth-full for lca coze IAF already want higher thrust engine like ge-414 which have around 98kn thrust and the detail which come sometime that k-9 (co-develop by India and France) has 90kn thrust which is low then ge-414. did IAF accept this engine for future replacement (MK-3) which is lower then (Mk-2).
for my point of view is only fulfill the requirement of AMCA but not LCA

 

[sancho]

Hi sancho
can you tell me is kaveri is worth-full for lca coze IAF already want higher thrust engine like ge-414 which have around 98kn thrust and the detail which come sometime that k-9 (co-develop by India and France) has 90kn thrust which is low then ge-414. did IAF accept this engine for future replacement (MK-3) which is lower then (Mk-2).
for my point of view is only fulfill the requirement of AMCA but not LCA

When you compare thrust, you always have to differ between dry and AB thrust and has to keep the weight in mind too!
GE 414 has 98kN AB thrust, but fighters generally fly with dry thrust and in this field Kaveri K10 should be way closer if not equal. For example, Eurofighters EJ 200 engine also offers "only" 90kN AB thust, but 60kN dry, while the GE 414 offers around 62kN dry but with around 100Kg more weight. That means, the EJ 200 offers a better dry thrust to weight ratio than the GE engine!
Snecmas M88-3, which will provide the base for the Kaveri K10 also offers 90kN AB thrust, while the dry thrust should be around 60kN as well, the important point will be, how far they can reduce the weight since Kaveri K9 is estimated at around 1100Kg, while the French engine could come at 1000Kg or even less. So if they can reduce the weight, while adding more thrust it is more than worth it to use Kaveri K10 on LCA and on AMCA, especially if the reports of joint TVC developments with French companies are true as well. LCA MK2 with Kaveri K10 and TVC would be a dream and I would even prefer additional of them, than additional Rafales!

 

[kaykay]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2012/05/gaffes-plenty-
on-lca-tejas.html
thats the true colour of UPA government....shame on them.

 

[Nishan_101]

90 Jas-39s are better to be in IAF till 2018.

Along with the 40 possible EF-2000s till 2015

 

[arp2041]

I saw wikipedia & got to know that unit cost of a JF-17 is around $20 million, unit cost of F-16 comes out to be $26-28million whereas unit cost of LCA tejas is $31 million, can someone explain why it's cost is more than F-16, is it better than F-16 (which i highly doubt).

 

[śūnya_0_Zero]

I saw wikipedia & got to know that unit cost of a JF-17 is around $20 million, unit cost of F-16 comes out to be $26-28million whereas unit cost of LCA tejas is $31 million, can someone explain why it's cost is more than F-16, is it better than F-16 (which i highly doubt).

Depends on what version of F-16 you are talking about.

F-16 participated in India's MMRCA competition; it was F-16 Block E/F and cost between $ 60-70 million.

The cheapest F-16s price that you are citing, if most likely for second hand ones, with about a decade or less of life left in them.

 

[sancho]

I saw wikipedia & got to know that unit cost of a JF-17 is around $20 million, unit cost of F-16 comes out to be $26-28million whereas unit cost of LCA tejas is $31 million, can someone explain why it's cost is more than F-16, is it better than F-16 (which i highly doubt).

The cost will be reduced through high production rates and the F16 was produced very often.

 

[ziaulislam]

wiki has outdated sources plus. the price is flyaway cost not including R&D

LCA cost has esscalated due to highly expenisve things.
1. its radar
2. its engine.
initially both were suppose to be indigenous but they arent now.
e.g
engine costs nearly 9 million where as RD-93 costs less than 2 million

 

[SamantK]

wiki has outdated sources plus. the price is flyaway cost not including R&D

LCA cost has esscalated due to highly expenisve things.
1. its radar
2. its engine.
initially both were suppose to be indigenous but they arent now.
e.g
engine costs nearly 9 million where as RD-93 costs less than 2 million

So please tell us what do you think is the cost..

 

[sancho]

engine costs nearly 9 million where as RD-93 costs less than 2 million

Not really, because the GE 414 for MK2 comes at $8 millions, the current GE 404 for the MK1 are way cheaper. The initial plan of $20 millions each might not be reached, but MK1 will still not be expensive for such a 4th gen fighter. For MK2 we have to see what the final specs will be, to see how much more it will cost. Btw, RD93 is cheaper in the procurement, because it has such a low life and needs to replaced more often than a western engine.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Not really, because the GE 414 for MK2 comes at $8 millions, the current GE 404 for the MK1 are way cheaper. The initial plan of $20 millions each might not be reached, but MK1 will still not be expensive for such a 4th gen fighter. For MK2 we have to see what the final specs will be, to see how much more it will cost. Btw, RD93 is cheaper in the procurement, because it has such a low life and needs to replaced more often than a western engine.

I think I read somewhere that the RD 33MK seres engines have extended lifetimes compared to the earlier versions, so with that price tag mentioned by the above poster is still a bang for the buck IMHO.

 

[sancho]

I think I read somewhere that the RD 33MK seres engines have extended lifetimes compared to the earlier versions, so with that price tag mentioned by the above poster is still a bang for the buck IMHO.

RD93 is a version of the RD33-3 series that IAF Mig 29UPG now will get, the MK is used only in Mig 29K so far and even though they have been improved, they are not at a similar level as western engines. That's one reason why we looked only at western engines for LCA and western partners for Kaveri.

 

[Vritra]

I think I read somewhere that the RD 33MK seres engines have extended lifetimes compared to the earlier versions, so with that price tag mentioned by the above poster is still a bang for the buck IMHO.

RD-93s are modified from the baseline RD-33, not the RD-33MK. The RD-33MK is more fuel efficient, contains a larger grade of composites, has a new FADEC unit, and a longer life, like you pointed out. It is also more expensive than the baseline RD-33 or the RD-93: Not to the same level as the F414, but still.

 

[Windjammer]

UPA's major goof up: Tejas inducted

NEW DELHI: First, it was the NDA regime which was in a hurry to christen it 'Tejas' , with the then PM, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, doing the honours in 2003. Now, it's the UPA II government's turn to declare that the indigenous fighter has already been "inducted'' .

In a major goof-up , the 'Report to the People' released by PM Manmohan Singh on Tuesday evening to mark UPA II's third anniversary in office lists the "induction of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas into IAF'' as a "major milestone'' in the defence arena.

Competitive politics apart, the simple fact is that Tejas is still at least two years away from becoming fully operational despite being almost three decades in the making after first being sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore.

The entire development cost of the Tejas project, including the naval variant and trainer as well as the failed Kaveri engine, in fact, has now zoomed to Rs 17,269 crore. With each Tejas to cost an additional Rs 200 crore, India will end up spending well over Rs 25,000 crore on the programme.

It's critical that India has its own home-grown fighter jet but the continuing hyperbole over the single-engined Tejas leaves IAF and others bewildered . On January 10, 2011, for instance, the Aeronautical Development Agency, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and Defence Research and Development Organisation had all got together to loudly proclaim
that Tejas had got initial operational clearance (IOC) at the hands of defence minister A K Antony.

But it became clear later that Tejas had only achieved partial IOC. It would have to be followed by IOC-II to certify the fighter was fully airworthy. Moreover, it would require the final operational clearance (FOC), with integration of all weapons and other systems, before it could be deemed combat-worthy . HAL and DRDO have set a December 2012 deadline for the FOC. But, sources say, Tejas will be ready for induction only towards mid-2013 at the earliest. Consequently, the actual induction of the first 40 Tejas jets is likely to begin only in 2014, with the first two squadrons up and running at the Sulur airbase (Tamil Nadu ) by 2015 or so.

IAF, in fact, feels Tejas is not even a fourth-generation fighter at present. The planned six squadrons of Tejas will initially serve just to arrest the sharp fall in the number of IAF fighter squadrons (each has 14 to 18 jets), which is down to just 33 at present.

The number of squadrons will further fall to 31 over the next three to four years with phasing out of the aging MiG variants, further impacting IAF's combat capabilities, before it slowly begins to pick up with new inductions. Projections show IAF will have the required 45 squadrons only by 2032.

UPA's major goof up: Tejas inducted - Economic Times

 

[SamantK]

Old news... we know how cheap our govt is