HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[tjpf]

Most of you ain't worth replying to , all i wanted to say is that this program is a failure , just a matter of ego. India should rather put its energies in making AMCA a success. LCA is an outdated concept and would have no future use in the warfare except from keeping the pilots playing with a stick and some MFDs.

now that you have mentioned it, LCA is a failure guys

 

[Jason bourne]

Most of you ain't worth replying to , all i wanted to say is that this program is a failure , just a matter of ego. India should rather put its energies in making AMCA a success. LCA is an outdated concept and would have no future use in the warfare except from keeping the pilots playing with a stick and some MFDs.

thanks for the advise but some people saying that pakistan is a failed nation do u have any advise for them ??

 

[Splurgenxs]

Ive already stated "occasionally" in my argument for that.
The composites in the LCA are not just its positives, nor are they magic.
They are positives for HAL and DRDO, the manufacturing knowledge.. the avionics knowledge.. that is the + point in the LCA program.

The 100+ mig-21's can be augmented by further MMRCA purchases or MKI purchases.
It a capability that the IAF does not need.
There is no longer a need for a dedicated light interceptor for the IAF.
Just having the capability aganst who? bangladesh? Burma?
The paradigm shift is to multirole.
What those 100+ LCA's are supposed to accomplish in deterrence the IAF's already potent fleet of aircraft in the MKI,the MMRCA,The FGFA and the AMCA will accomplish.
However if the IAF is still adamant about the LCA then it should look into suspending R&D and focus on basic interceptor Mk1's.
Having money to spend is one thing.. just wasting it because you can is another.

i may lean towards ur opinion about this program ...but i do not think the learning phase for Indian R&d teams ends here
Heck of the most important part of a Fighter planes development is to get it fully operational , and get it serving in the def forces...

Until and unless tht is achieved ..we cant truly trust ourselves to build the AMCA.
Let the LCA be fully developed and operationalized ..even if we have to buy only 10 of these for active service...its still boosts our tec base and experience about every phase in a jets development cycle.

 

[Mblaze]

My question would be on what bases this conclusion is made, since there is no finished product so far? Let them build MK1 first and provide some propper specs about it, then we can compare and get to conclusions.

Wrt responsibility... When the fighter turns out around 1t heavier than planned, or when the gears of N-LCA are designed too strong and heavy as needed it's ADAs responsibility, when radar and engine developments gets delayed or even failed and can't be finished according to the requirements that, it's DRDOs responsibility. The forces instead are responsible for wanting a fully capable and ready fighter, instead of improving and maturing it after induction into service.
So they all have their shares, but the main responsibility for all the delays clearly lies with ADA and DRDO!

Switching to AMCA is the worst thing we can make, because we learn nothing if we don't find the mistakes of LCA program and correct them. That is only possible if we finish the project and induct it into operational service and not by simply closing our eyes.
LCA was never important for India as a fighter, because it's just aimed to be the low end of the fleet. The importance comes by the fact that it was meant to be the base project of the aero industry and any further upgrade, design, R&D development in future should be based on it. Without finishing it, all this is not available and besides all the time and money we wasted, we would start at the begining again!

Btw, Aeronaut has no idea what he is talking about when he claims LCA would be outdated. When you look at the materials, techs and capabilities or the overall potential, it's more than close to Gripen level. LCA was developed with with a good growth potential in mind and still would have a good future, if it only would be inducted into service and de-linked from all the unnecessary stuff!

100% agree with u bro.

Tejas with AESA Radar + far superior avionics with European/Israeli inputs + new engine will be one of the best aircraft in its category.

Our defense is not dependent on it as we have Su-30 MKIs + Rafale to do the job till Tejas get inducted in big numbers.

We need to complete the learning curve it will be a strong building block of the aerospace industry in India.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Most of you ain't worth replying to , all i wanted to say is that this program is a failure , just a matter of ego. India should rather put its energies in making AMCA a success. LCA is an outdated concept and would have no future use in the warfare except from keeping the pilots playing with a stick and some MFDs.

SOOOO wrong. The technical/idustrial base being created by this program is incredible, this will firmly establish India as an aerospace power. How can you move on to AMCA when you haven't finished LCA? Much of the know-how that will go into AMCA will be directly derived from the LCA program. You have to crawl before you can walk. Big talk coming from a person whose national aerospace industery is non-existent. It is very easy to sit there and constantly criticize Indian defence programs when Pakistan has none of her own to compare, if Pakistan had tried this sort of thing we'd still be waiting for the first flight. This was an incredibly bold move on India's part to try and go it alone and it will in the long term pay dividends. You know what they say-"fortune favors the bold".



19 years (actually how long it has taken) despite 0 manufacturing base,0 technical knowledge, US sanctions, feeble budget, limited resources, limited manpower and little outside help to produce an advanced 4.5 gen lightweight fighter really is quite an ACHIEVEMENT. 0 crashes to date speaks for itself.

 

[ganimi kawa]

Btw, Aeronaut has no idea what he is talking about when he claims LCA would be outdated. When you look at the materials, techs and capabilities or the overall potential, it's more than close to Gripen level. LCA was developed with with a good growth potential in mind and still would have a good future, if it only would be inducted into service and de-linked from all the unnecessary stuff!

Spot on. Truer words were never said.

When the LCA was considered in the 1980s it was indeed a replacement for the MiGs in point interceptor role; however with the massive increase in the ASR during 1990s and later meant it has evolved as a light multi role fighter and not light interceptor as oscar thinks it is!

If Mr. aeronaut think that a multi role light fighter with almost all the techs of 4th gen is outdated; he needs a reality check. It is not the case of the LCA mk1 being a slouch but IAF wanting a mature and fully developed platform which can only be achieved by iterative development.

And thus the tale of mk1 and mk2!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This part I agree with, as a learning experience the LCA is not a failure. But as a finished product the LCA(Mk1 anyway) is a total flop. And the reasons for this lie with the IAF's inability to come up with a static Air staff requirement for what it wanted.
I posted a comical video on the development of the Bradley IFV.. and the LCA has many paralells with it.

I do feel that the LCA Navy is being shoved down the IN's throat by an apologetic MoD and DRDO(which has no need to be apologetic for what is not its fault).

The services have been trying to shift the blame for problems in the LCA to DRDO(and HAL) but the fact is it is they who are responsible for shifting requirements every other year.
This was DRDO and HAL's first venture in designed an aircraft completely on their own.. to expect them to do it the same timetable with the same efficiency that established companies do(Occasionally) was foolish.
I agree with Aeronaut that the LCA program should not be pursued anymore, the focus should be on AMCA and all resources should be focused there.

Notwithstanding the fact that the IAF has proved to be a recalcitrant stake-holder in the LCA project at various times; Tejas was a necesssary project to go through with. It has been a technology demonstrator for the Indian Defence Aviation industry. The last time that India attempted to do such a thing was with the still-born HF-24 project and for lack of a suitable engine that project was allowed to wither away. But that was a generation earlier and all that tech (however) little, was just left in cobwebs. Setting this project up was not easy, both due to external and internal reasons; but inspite of that a "flying test-bed" has been created and is testing out various technologies. That is the most important thing to my my mind; not even that the Tejas may not even make it into service- (but it will, and in a form that may well be a surprise).

The lesson is very simple: that Tejas helped India to learn many things required to build a modern aircraft (however painful that was), while other countries have had to be satisfied with "screw-driver++" technology to build similar aircraft. The Tejas learning curve will be useful not just for the AMCA project but in all spheres of aero-space including the civilian sector, if you bother to notice. That will be a big boost to the aero-space industry in India, somewhat analogous to Indian endeavours in the automobile industry which is slated to make India a big automotive hub internationally and very soon at that. That model stands to be replicated for aero-space as well, Tejas being one contributor to that. Think about it.

Of course, I will not grudge you your effort to salvage some-body who tends to fire off indiscriminately and then ends up with "foot-in-mouth" afflictions.

 

[rockstarIN]

To add, AMCA will be seriously taken once we have the tech know how from Rafale deal and PAK/FA - FGFA deal.

We will make These two Gen4++ & 5th Gen jets in our labs. With those experience along with LCA knowledge base, AMCA will be a state of the art jet.

 

[Screambowl]

On what basis is LCA a failure, if some one can explain me the technical fact for this conclusion... ?

 

[SQ8]

My question would be on what bases this conclusion is made, since there is no finished product so far? Let them build MK1 first and provide some propper specs about it, then we can compare and get to conclusions.

Wrt responsibility... When the fighter turns out around 1t heavier than planned, or when the gears of N-LCA are designed too strong and heavy as needed it's ADAs responsibility, when radar and engine developments gets delayed or even failed and can't be finished according to the requirements that, it's DRDOs responsibility. The forces instead are responsible for wanting a fully capable and ready fighter, instead of improving and maturing it after induction into service.
So they all have their shares, but the main responsibility for all the delays clearly lies with ADA and DRDO!

Switching to AMCA is the worst thing we can make, because we learn nothing if we don't find the mistakes of LCA program and correct them. That is only possible if we finish the project and induct it into operational service and not by simply closing our eyes.
LCA was never important for India as a fighter, because it's just aimed to be the low end of the fleet. The importance comes by the fact that it was meant to be the base project of the aero industry and any further upgrade, design, R&D development in future should be based on it. Without finishing it, all this is not available and besides all the time and money we wasted, we would start at the begining again!

Btw, Aeronaut has no idea what he is talking about when he claims LCA would be outdated. When you look at the materials, techs and capabilities or the overall potential, it's more than close to Gripen level. LCA was developed with with a good growth potential in mind and still would have a good future, if it only would be inducted into service and de-linked from all the unnecessary stuff!

The LCA program is a failure for not delivering on time what it had promised(as is the F-35 program), its as simple as that.
It does not have the engine it was supposed to have, has not entered operational service.. and by the very virtue of its delays is putting the lives of those pilots that have to fly the outdated Mig-21's at risk.

The LCA program is NOT a failure for what it brings as knowledge and understanding to DRDO and HAL. Its a gold mine.. and I have already elaborated as to how many times before.

And yes I agree that the LCA is not outdated, but the very fact that it is linked to unnecessary requirements is its downfall.
The LCA Mk2 would have been relavent today.. not 10 years from now.
As I suggested, if the question is to replace mig-21's..then do it with a basic Mk1.. BVR and unguided A2G weapons only.

Concentrate all those resources meant for the Mk2 on the AMCA, make that program an excellent one.

 

[IND151]

^^ sir , in my humble opinion problem is IAF wants LCA on par with western jets which is not possible.

may be IAF's emphasis is on quality as some sources suggest that IAF wants to have 39.5 squadrons.

LCA MK 2 will take a lot of time for induction but if it comes with AESA its worth it.

it wont be good to scrap LCA and start from scratch AMCA program.

LCA program should be given more funds and GOI should secretly hire ex soviet aeronautical engineers who are unemployed now ( offering them huge pay )

this will be legal and reduce the development time for LCA Mk 2 tremendously.

and Israeli help wont be that useful compared to what these ex soviet aeronautical engineers can do as no nation gives ultra advanced technology to other nations and salary of these engineers will be directly related to success of Mk2

 

[SQ8]

LCA program should be given more funds and GOI should secretly hire ex soviet aeronautical engineers who are unemployed now ( offering them huge pay )

"Sigh..."



had they gone with this design(which I shamelessly troll on every LCA thread).. that might be the course of action taken.. and a very excellent LCA would have come to light.

 

[IND151]

^^ which AC is this sir?

 

[rockstarIN]

We do not need to get Russians, we have French help on these matters though.

 

[SQ8]

^^ which AC is this sir?

Sukhoi S-54 concept.