HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Trisonics]

It would take a while, after the induction for the IAF to create specific roles and doctrines around the Tejas. So it is indeed a good idea to stage it at the south, where the proximity to ADA and HAL would help making a role for tejas easy. I'm sure after the squadrons grow they will find roles in other areas as well.

Not to forget it was tested at Leh...

 

[flanker143]

Well most probably it will be an interceptor as well as be a shortrange tactical ground striker due to its range constraint ....

 

[gowthamraj]

Tejas have not been posted to guard the south skies but protect Sir karunanidhi from Madam Jayalalitha.

Jayalalitha not need those as DMK will end with karunanidi in my opinion.




Then this base is just few km from my house

Before sometimes i seen mig 23 here

 

[ganimi kawa]

1. Yes, but at the same time we will also be operating 3 CBGs (though i feel INS Viraat might be useless coz of lack of capable aircrafts).

2. IN is quite capable of handling any misadventures by China (if ever... considering they are surrounded by USN and SK's navy) in the near future.

3. Sea dominance cannot be achieved by IAF. It can only be achieved by IN and its CBGs.

4. I'm not saying that IAF shouldn't concentrate on South India but they should only do that once entire northern north-eastern frontiers are completely safe. That is where the real battleground of IAF is.

I'll try to give answers pointwise.

1. Yes, we will have 2 ACs ( viraat will retire as soon as vik joins the navy. Though it may remain in some other role like heli carrier or command ship upto 2020)

Out of the two , vik will carry 16 mig 29ks. And IAC 1 is supposed to carry 30 that makes a total of 46 fighters. This is more than enough for pakistan, but not for sanitising the entire IOR which is the ultimate aim for IN.

2. IN is capable of facing PLAN in IOR as of now but it's the future we are talkin about. PLAN is expanding and we must try an establish an unassailable lead over it in IOR, just as it will try to do in south china sea.

3. You are downgrading the entire concept of land based naval strike aircraft, it's a time tested concept ( as recent as the Falkland war)!
While you need ships out in the for sea dominance Air force has a vital role to play.

4. India has the advantage of this huge landmass jutting into IO like a dagger. We must take advantage of this by creating bases like Sulur.
While bases in NE are necessary , there is no need to rob peter to pay paul in this case.

5. Please also think about other points I've mentioned about the necessity of this base like Secrecy for LCA and escorts for naval patrol and ASW planes operating from naval base INS Rajali, Arakkonam, TN.

6. Also know that IAF operates two squadrans of Jaguars with sea eagle missiles specializing in maritime strike since a long time and intends to replace them with SU 30 mki with Brahmos!

P.S. Thanks for a nice discussion, let's continue!

 

[sancho]

Sorry if any body post it.

Hi Sudhir, do you have a cutaway of the actual LCA versions? I'm asking because the EJ200 is offered with 3D TVC if we want, but that would need to relocate the brake chute right? So is ther enough space inside to put it more to the front for example?
If not, what other ways would be possible?

 

[sancho]

Out of the two , vik will carry 16 mig 29ks. And IAC 1 is supposed to carry 30 that makes a total of 46 fighters. This is more than enough for pakistan, but not for sanitising the entire IOR which is the ultimate aim for IN.

We have only 45 Mig 29Ks on order and both carriers will be able to carry 30 aircrafts, not 30 fighters. A mix of around 20 fighters and 10 helicopters is likely, but no real numbers are out so far. The last report I read about it said, that those 45 Mig 29s will be divided into 3 squadrons (I guess one for each carrier and one for training, or reserve).

In general, I think these LCAs have no big strategic role in the south. They are enough for air patrol and air defense if needed in that area, but it will take some time till they get A2G, or even air to sea capabilities. Also IAF wanted to upgrade the Jaguar IM + use the MKIs in this role too, which is far more capable in the anti ship role, because of longer range and endurance, as well as way more payload. Not to forget that it can use better weapons like Brahmos for example.

Personally I would like to see IN to take over the anti ship role with fighter squads too. Logistics and pilot training should be way easier, because IN already will have ASW aircrafts, as well as dedicated pilot training for the carrier fighters. Two squads of Su 34 (Su 34 because of more advantages in long endurance mssions, as well as dedicated avionics) for them would be a great addition for the long range MP role and if one of them would be placed on the Andaman islands, they would have a great strategic reach on the whole eastern area ( Bay of Bengal, or even into the Strait of Malacca).

 

[KS]

Personally I would like to see IN to take over the anti ship role with fighter squads too. Logistics and pilot training should be way easier, because IN already will have ASW aircrafts, as well as dedicated pilot training for the carrier fighters. Two squads of Su 34 (Su 34 because of more advantages in long endurance mssions, as well as dedicated avionics) for them would be a great addition for the long range MP role and if one of them would be placed on the Andaman islands, they would have a great strategic reach on the whole eastern area ( Bay of Bengal, or even into the Strait of Malacca).

Heck I too would like that baby in tricolor....

 

[Sri]

Heck I too would like that baby in tricolor....

Can't we get our MKI's do the same job? My understanding is SU 34 does not offer anything extra in terms of weapons load or long distance endurance. Not sure about the RCS of this baby when compared to MKI .
Thanks
Sri.

 

[KS]

Can't we get our MKI's do the same job? My understanding is SU 34 does not offer anything extra in terms of weapons load or long distance endurance. Not sure about the RCS of this baby when compared to MKI .
Thanks
Sri.

If u look at the overall features they are almost similar but the things that favour the FullBack over the Flanker for this role is the extra load it can carry,dedicated avionics for strike role and the more comfortable cockpit so that pilots are not strained during HE missions.

 

[redpearl75]

Well, as far as I know Su 34 has the same capacity of carrying weapons as MKIs and is a Fighter Bomber whereas MKI is a fully multirole air superiority aircraft meaning that it can be utilized as both and interceptor, fighter-bomber, as well as Reconance role. In fact it can be used as a mobile platform to transfer data to other aircriafts, ground and, sea based resources acting as a mini AWACS... Su 34 has a top speed of 1.8 mach and MKI has a max speed of mach 2+, apart from that Fullback can climb upto 15000 Mtrs but MKI can go till 17000+ Mts in altitude. The radar used in Fullback is V004 passive electronically scanned array radar, and a UOMZ laser/television system for designating and guiding precision-guided munitions. The front-mounted radar is supplemented by a rear-aspect V005 radar housed in the long tail "stinger". The Su-34 is equipped with comprehensive ECM equipment, including an infrared missile launch detection system.
Whereas MKI has forward facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar.[38] The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere (far better than SU 34). Rangewise too MKi is better and the TTW ratio is far greatr with MKI compared to that of the Fullback... RCS is also very low of the MKI as the components are composite and alloys... not sure of the RCS of Fullback though...

I don't find Su34 better than MKI and the only good thing compared to MKI is the pilot comfort... that's all...

 

[MZUBAIR]

Heck I too would like that baby in tricolor....

MKI's bomber capability is far batter then SU34's.

 

[redpearl75]

Moreover, Su34 is a dedicated fighter bomber and is far more heavier thatn MKI but carries the same weapon load which makes it hard to maneuver compared to MKI.... It's radar is made to support only Air-to-ground or Ship mode that's it and is limited.... MKI is truly a multirole fighter and can support multi mission and can switch the mode being in flight itself....

 

[redpearl75]

MKI can carry the following load:

Air to Air Missiles:

10 × R-77 (AA-12) active radar homing medium range AAM, 100 km
10 × Astra missile active radar homing medium range AAM, 120 km
6 × R-27P (AA-10C) semi-active radar guided, long range AAM 130 km
6 × R-27P (AA-10D) Infrared homing extended range version, long range AAM 120 km
2 × R-27R/AA-10A semi-active radar guided, medium range AAM,80 km
2 × R-27T (AA-10B) infrared homing seeker, medium range AAM, 70 km
6 × R-73 (AA-11) short range AAM, 30 km
3 × Novator KS-172 AAM-L 400 km/Russian air-to-air missile designed as an "AWACS killer"

Air to Surface Missiles:

3 × Kh-59ME TV guided standoff Missile, 115 km
3 × Kh-59MK active radar homing anti-ship missile, 285 km
4 × Kh-35 Anti-Ship Missile, 130 km
1 × PJ-10 Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile,300 km
6 × Kh-31P/A anti-radar missile, 70 km
6 × Kh-29T/L laser guided missile, 30 km
4 × S-8 rocket pods (80 unguided rockets)
4 × S-13 rocket pods (20 unguided rockets)

Bombs:

8 × KAB-500L laser guided bombs
3 × KAB-1500L laser guided bombs
8 × FAB-500T dumb bombs
28 × OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
32 × OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
8 × RBK-500 cluster bombs

and Su 34 can carry the following:

1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 (9A-4071K) cannon, 180 rounds
Defensive weapons include the R-27 Alamo, R-73 Archer and R-77 Adder series, with the PESA providing the capability to track ten targets and concurrently engage four with BVR missile shots.
10 × wing and fuselage stations for up to 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance, including Kh-29L/T (AS-14), Kh-25MT/ML/MP (AS-10), Kh-36 (?), Kh-38, Kh-41 (?), Kh-59M (AS-18), Kh-58 (AS-11), Kh-31P (AS-17), Kh-35 Ural (AS-20), Kh-65S, Kh-SD, 2 Moskit, 3 × Jachont air-to-ground missiles, KAB-500L/KR or KAB-1500L guided bombs, unguided bombs, B-8 rocket pods with 20 × 80 mm S-8 rockets, B-13 rocket pods with 5 × 122 mm S-13 rockets, O-25 rocket pods with 1 × 340 mm S-25 rocket, fuel tanks, EW- and reconnaissance pods.

that's all.....

Clearly proved that MKI is a much advanced platform than Fullback...

 

[KS]

Mate the MKI is jack of all trades but a master of none if i may say so.

And there is an inherent difference between a multirole fighter and a designated fighter-bomber.

A good link on the Fullback:

Sukhoi Su-32/Su-34 Fullback

And u had mentioned as if the pilot comfort is a least concern in these type of missions...nahh..it is one of the most important.

 

[redpearl75]

Mate the MKI is jack of all trades but a master of none if i may say so.

And there is an inherent difference between a multirole fighter and a designated fighter-bomber.

A good link on the Fullback:

Sukhoi Su-32/Su-34 Fullback

And u had mentioned as if the pilot comfort is a least concern in these type of missions...nahh..it is one of the most important.

How can you say that MKI is master of none...? I believe rather we all know that among the Flanker family MKi is the best and the most advanced version ever and combines the capabilities of the basic Su 30 as well as the Su35... First of all a dedicated bomber can nevr be compared with a true multirole fighter as a dedicated bomber, no matter how advanced it is will have a limited role and can not come out of it, where MKI can be used as a fighter bomber with it's own air defence capability.... And if you talk about pilot comfort then I won't say that it's the least concern rather it's the most important aspect in aviation.... And MKI has not lagged behind in this segment either. The rear seat is raised for better visibility. The cockpit is provided with containers to store food and water reserves, a waste disposal system and extra oxygen bottles. The KD-36DM ejection seat is inclined at 30º, to help the pilot resist aircraft accelerations in air combat.
Moreover the avionics package in SU34 is completely different from that of MKI. Su 34 can be compared with F 15/18 E/F/Tornedo but can not be with any of the morden 4.5 generation fighter aircraft due to it's role. It's a good replacement for our Mig 27s and jaguars if you are concedering it for the IAF just like that but can never be better than MKI as it's far far superior to Fullback in terms of every aspect..... I can't buy the fact that Fulback is better or can be compared to MKI.. Sorry brother...