'Hagia Sophia might be converted to a mosque': Erdogan

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

May you link that history book you were reading on this subject...

Maybe Milosevic or Mladic taught him that.

 

[bsruzm]

They invade our land and burned it, enslaved millions, made Christians paid jizya or convert them to muslims , they imported corruption, economic and cultural backwardness to the Southeast Europe, we missed Rennesaince, Reformation, Romanticism

You vandals in Eastern Europe really believe those? Especially that part: "we missed Rennesaince, Reformation, Romanticism". You may convince other's to these but I am not that stranger

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

It is bad luck for Turkey if people like you are their allies.

There is no such thing as luck, there is only Kismet.

We will stand by our Turkish blood brothers even if the whole world is against them.

This is the meaning of being a Pakistani. Loyalty to our allies and Fearlessness to our enemies.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Maybe Milosevic or Mladic taught him that.

What I wonder is if the "taught" part was ever "used"...

 

[DejanSRB]

May you link that history book you were reading on this subject...

We are talking about some basic things, that is well known history...

But ok, lets start...

About Ottoman empire backwardness in economy, you should start with Halil Inalcik ,

• The Ottoman Decline and its Effects upon the Reaya, Aspects of the Balkans, Continuity and Change, Contributions to the International Balkan Conference held at UCLA, October 23—28, 1969, ed. H. Birnbaum & S. Vryonis Jr., Mouton, The Hague 1972, 338—354.
  
  About Ottoman brutal conquest
• • Ottoman Methods of Conquest, Studia Islamica 3 (1954) 102—129.
  
  
  
  

About Ottoman rejection of Renneissance
The Ottoman Empire: The Classical Age 1300-1600 by Halil Inalcik


I put Halil Inalcik, (TURKISH HISTORIAN) just to avoid some "Serbian bias historians" replies.

You vandals in Eastern Europe really believe those? Especially that part: "we missed Rennesaince, Reformation, Romanticism". You may convince other's to these but I am not that stranger

Ok, friend, give me argument!
I am here.

Maybe Milosevic or Mladic taught him that.

At least, my country didnt hide Bin Laden, a paradigm of terrorism.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So...When you "say" that Muslim World have "more hate" toward Israel... what's the anti-proposition?

It was claimed that Erdogan should convert Hagia Sophia because the West hates Turkey.
That is what I comparing with.
I do not even believe that West hates Turkey, but noone believes Turkey is compatible with Western liberal values, and is moving away from that under Erdogan.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

At least, my country didnt hide Bin Laden, a paradigm of terrorism.

He died in 2002 in Thora Bara from lack of kidney dialysis.

noone believes Turkey is compatible with Western liberal values

Lol. No Muslim is compatible, they will even find some lacking in men like Sadiq Khan who are firm believers in liberal values.

It’s about anti-Muslim bigotry, this is why a Turkey is incompatible.

 

[HannibalBarca]

We are talking about some basic things, that is well known history...

But ok, lets start...

About Ottoman empire backwardness in economy, you should start with Halil Inalcik ,

• The Ottoman Decline and its Effects upon the Reaya, Aspects of the Balkans, Continuity and Change, Contributions to the International Balkan Conference held at UCLA, October 23—28, 1969, ed. H. Birnbaum & S. Vryonis Jr., Mouton, The Hague 1972, 338—354.
  
  About Ottoman brutal conquest
• • Ottoman Methods of Conquest, Studia Islamica 3 (1954) 102—129.
  
  
  

About Ottoman rejection of Renneissance
The Ottoman Empire: The Classical Age 1300-1600 by Halil Inalcik


I put Halil Inalcik, (TURKISH HISTORIAN) just to avoid some "Serbian bias historians" replies.

First... You give me the "End of Ottoman Empire" Economy state... as if it's THE general 700years of reign...
and Second... Do you even know what the Renaissance is? or what is about? Do you even know who brought you Renaissance in the first place?

 

[YoucefZighoud]

Why does this forum tolerate obvious muslim haters? I see Israelis (A country that doesn't even exist according to Pakistan.), Indians and Euros, talking shit about muslims and palestinians, and now a fucking Serb is here insulting pakistanis for ''hiding'' Bin Laden? Wtf is this? How is this tolerated...

 

[bsruzm]

Ok, friend, give me argument!
I am here

I suggest you to study Halil Inalcık collectively. Cherry-picking won't get you anywhere.

 

[DejanSRB]

First... You give me the "End of Ottoman Empire" Economy state... as if it's THE general 700years of reign...
and Second... Do you even know what the Renaissance is? or what is about? Do you even know who brought you Renaissance in the first place?

Sorry, but you dont know what are you talking about, you are so ignorant that there is no point of further disscusion.

I will show you the signs of your ignorance.

1) First book is not about decline of Ottoman empire, but of ottoman decline on REAYA system. So, it is evident that you dont know what "Reaya" even means. It is a Ottoman term for Christian population on Balkans, that paid jizzya and refuse to convert to Islam (Ottomans was liberal on that question, you can become muslim and get better life or remain christian and paid jizzya.

2) If you dont know LITTERARY NOTHING on Ottoman Empire, just like it looks, why you take part in this disscusion? Oh thats becouse you must defend Ottoman Empire, just bcos it was a muslim empire. Be it good or bed, prosper or backward (like it was), it was muslim so it must be grand.

3) Dont start with those bullshits again about Arab contribution on Renaissance, Renaissance was succesful only in Europe, when combined with Reformation and Enlighment it made Western Europe most prosperous part of world in humankind. Thats why you live in France, but not in Tunisia. Thats why you live in country that was affected by all three of them but not in some former Ottoman lands, where there is not rule of law and freedom of press.

 

[YoucefZighoud]

The jizya cost less than the obligatory Zakat in muslim lands. That's a false argument. Every body had to pay taxes in one form or another, since christians didn't pay the Zakat they had to pay the jizya that's it that's all. Manipulation at it's best.

 

[DejanSRB]

I suggest you to study Halil Inalcık collectively. Cherry-picking won't get you anywhere.

I finished my Ottoman studies with 9/10 score on uni, department of history, one of my proffesors was a Turk who married Hungarian lady from north Serbia. So I think PDF is last place when I can get further education on such topic.

The jizya cost less than the obligatory Zakat in muslim lands. That's a false argument. Every body had to pay taxes in one form or another, since christians didn't pay the Zakat they had to pay the jizya that's it that's all. Manipulation at it's best.

Tell me how much jizzya cost?

Why does this forum tolerate obvious muslim haters? I see Israelis (A country that doesn't even exist according to Pakistan.), Indians and Euros, talking shit about muslims and palestinians, and now a fucking Serb is here insulting pakistanis for ''hiding'' Bin Laden? Wtf is this? How is this tolerated...

He called me a butcher.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Sorry, but you dont know what are you talking about, you are so ignorant that there is no point of further disscusion.

I will show you the signs of your ignorance.

1) First book is not about decline of Ottoman empire, but of ottoman decline on REAYA system. So, it is evident that you dont know what "Reaya" even means. It is a Ottoman term for Christian population on Balkans, that paid jizzya and refuse to convert to Islam (Ottomans was liberal on that question, you can become muslim and get better life or remain christian and paid jizzya.

2) If you dont know LITTERARY NOTHING on Ottoman Empire, just like it looks, why you take part in this disscusion? Oh thats becouse you must defend Ottoman Empire, just bcos it was a muslim empire. Be it good or bed, prosper or backward (like it was), it was muslim so it must be grand.

3) Dont start with those bullshits again about Arab contribution on Renaissance, Renaissance was succesful only in Europe, when combined with Reformation and Enlighment it made Western Europe most prosperous part of world in humankind. Thats why you live in France, but not in Tunisia. Thats why you live in country that was affected by all three of them but not in some former Ottoman lands, where there is not rule of law and freedom of press.

Yeah...better stop right here...
I prefer a calm dude who actually know what is talking about without making it a personal matter...
AND someone who do not put words in my mouth thinking that's what I believe in...
Stay in your corner... I don't really care...

What is even more problematic with you...is that you are contradicting yourself about Christians/jazya in regards to your previous post...and you didn't even know it...

So... yeah... A Blind/Deaf aren't my cup of tea...

The jizya cost less than the obligatory Zakat in muslim lands. That's a false argument. Every body had to pay taxes in one form or another, since christians didn't pay the Zakat they had to pay the jizya that's it that's all. Manipulation at it's best.

They don't even know the almost non existent duty of a Christian/jew in comparison of a Muslim...
And they believe they own "knowledge"...typical Wikipedia readers...

Why does this forum tolerate obvious muslim haters? I see Israelis (A country that doesn't even exist according to Pakistan.), Indians and Euros, talking shit about muslims and palestinians, and now a fucking Serb is here insulting pakistanis for ''hiding'' Bin Laden? Wtf is this? How is this tolerated...

At least...they get their mouth shut...when they argue that "Muslims" oppress "speech"...

 

[Nein]

Here is a fact the balkans before the Ottomans came was a shithole.

Only value of the Balkans for the Turks was Constantinople and the springboard to conquer the contitienent.

Balkaners love to act like that the Ottomans made the region backwards. Balkaners themselves have the most backward mentality.

No disrespect to any Balkan Turks you are the exception.