Greek Army wants to conquer Istanbul?

[asad71]

1.O Muslims! O Turks! Beware; be warned! The enemy first desecrated Jerusalem. Then it destroyed Baghdad. Aleppo was next. It now knocks on the door of another center of Islamic heritage, Damascus. The next target of WCC (Western Christian Civilization) is Istanbul. For centuries they have pined to retrieve Constantinople.

2. O Turkish brethren! Your potential threat is not Greece only. It is the entire WCC. Greece is just the front line of the lost Holy Roman Empire. Don't feel satisfied by matching nukes and missiles and tanks and fighters. The enemy shall strike from inside. Strengthen your Iman. Your Islamic character is his main target.

 

[Armstrong]

1.O Muslims! O Turks! Beware; be warned! The enemy first desecrated Jerusalem. Then it destroyed Baghdad. Aleppo was next. It now knocks on the door of another center of Islamic heritage, Damascus. The next target of WCC (Western Christian Civilization) is Istanbul. For centuries they have pined to retrieve Constantinople.

2. O Turkish brethren! Your potential threat is not Greece only. It is the entire WCC. Greece is just the front line of the lost Holy Roman Empire. Don't feel satisfied by matching nukes and missiles and tanks and fighters. The enemy shall strike from inside. Strengthen your Iman. Your Islamic character is his main target.

What happened to this O Muslims O Muslims when your countrymen colluded with the enemy against Pakistan & broke the country apart in '71 ?

 

[M.harris]

What happened to this O Muslims O Muslims when your countrymen colluded with the enemy against Pakistan & broke the country apart in '71 ?

In 71 they consider us non - muslims tyrants after breaking the country their memory returns and they consider us muslims they are victims of short term memory loss forgive them

 

[asad71]

What happened to this O Muslims O Muslims when your countrymen colluded with the enemy against Pakistan & broke the country apart in '71 ?

It was the children of Satan like Yahya, Bhutto, Mithha, Tikka, Niazi, Peerzada, MM Ahmed, Umar and others who massacred fellow Muslims causing the violent division. We simply retaliated and fought you. You were already defeated when India joined in to steal our victory. Yes, even then we had chanted O Muslim, O Muslim. But your leaders were busy in debauchery and drinking. No Muslim people had such disgraceful leaders in history. Ask Air Marshal Asghar Khan or Gen Sahibzada Yaqub. They will tell you about these demons.

 

[Armstrong]

It was the children of Satan like Yahya, Bhutto, Mithha, Tikka, Niazi, Peerzada, MM Ahmed, Umar and others who massacred fellow Muslims causing the violent division. We simply retaliated and fought you. You were already defeated when India joined in to steal our victory. Yes, even then we had chanted O Muslim, O Muslim. But your leaders were busy in debauchery and drinking. No Muslim people had such disgraceful leaders in history. Ask Air Marshal Asghar Khan or Gen Sahibzada Yaqub. They will tell you about these demons.

Those leaders were Your Leaders as well as ours - We had grievances aplenty like we do till this date - But we didn't ask for a separate country ! And spare me the self-righteousness - Had your Father of the Nation & his ilk not conspired to break the country apart long before the Crackdown perhaps the Awami League would have been allowed to form a legitimate government after all & had your so-called Freedom Fighters not butchered everyone from innocent Bihairs to West Pakistani civilians we wouldn't have retaliated in such a harsh manner.

My Grandpa was there in Dhaka a few months before Operation Searchlight & he saw your retaliation in the flesh - Yes grievances were there...yes injustice was done but you don't get up & account for that by shoving a knife in your own brother's underbelly by colluding with the enemy !

Field Marshal Manekshaw wasn't being cute when he said that he had 9 months to prepare; God knows how long before that all of this was happening.

And whats worse for you guys Jinnah is nowhere, Iqbal is nowhere & history begins & ends with your Language Movement & incessant victim hood !

 

[asad71]

Those leaders were Your Leaders as well as ours - We had grievances aplenty like we do till this date - But we didn't ask for a separate country ! And spare me the self-righteousness - Had your Father of the Nation & his ilk not conspired to break the country apart long before the Crackdown perhaps the Awami League would have been allowed to form a legitimate government after all & had your so-called Freedom Fighters not butchered everyone from innocent Bihairs to West Pakistani civilians we wouldn't have retaliated in such a harsh manner.

My Grandpa was there in Dhaka a few months before Operation Searchlight & he saw your retaliation in the flesh - Yes grievances were there...yes injustice was done but you don't get up & account for that by shoving a knife in your own brother's underbelly by colluding with the enemy !

Field Marshal Manekshaw wasn't being cute when he said that he had 9 months to prepare; God knows how long before that all of this was happening.

1.Sheikh Mujib indulged in no conspiracy. He surrendered himself under arrangement with GOC Khadim Hussain Raza when things got out of his control because of the attitude of the junta. We were simply asking for the leader of the majority party to be allowed to form the govt. That's about all.

2. Prior to Op Search Light, and as part of the preparation for the op, ISI officers had distributed weapons to Bihari community leaders in various towns. ISI had sought troubles to begin to prepare grounds for the genocide.

3. Pakistan was ruined much earlier by West wing leaders when they tempered with the Lahore Resolution, 1940 moved by our Premier Sher E Bangla. It was planned that the wings would remain separate but be tied by links of the Islamic faith. But the Western wing, which had opposed the creation of Pakistan till the end, never really understood the essence / ideology of Pakistan which was a project pioneered by us. I am afraid, you still do not understand this; that is why you are warring among yourselves.

 

[Armstrong]

1.Sheikh Mujib indulged in no conspiracy. He surrendered himself under arrangement with GOC Khadim Hussain Raza when things got out of his control because of the attitude of the junta. We were simply asking for the leader of the majority party to be allowed to form the govt. That's about all.

Oh please even one of your own who is now a Parliamentarian admitted to the validity of the Agartala Conspiracy Case against you !

How could such sell-outs be allowed to form a Government in Pakistan that would almost certainly be handled by elements from elsewhere - No wonder Mujib got two bullets in his head by the same Bengalis he, apparently, fought for !

2. Prior to Op Search Light, and as part of the preparation for the op, ISI officers had distributed weapons to Bihari community leaders in various towns. ISI had sought troubles to begin to prepare grounds for the genocide.

No not really I'm sure when the Indian's top man is admitting in preparing for this for 9 months at its face value & God knows how long before that RAW was doing the stuff they were, those preparations didn't involve harmless pamphlet distribution, news excerpts or article writing - Your Mukhti Bahini & angry Bengali Mobs were not a reaction to our actions but something that compelled us to react, albeit in a disproportionately huge way ! And besides why would the ISI arm mobs - They are an intelligence agency for godsake - Not a Paramilitary Trainer ! And why do you think those Biharis ever so willingly joined up ? Because they had suffered at the hands of trigger happy disgruntled Bengalis infused with their victim mentality & blood lust for all the injustices done to them !

3. Pakistan was ruined much earlier by West wing leaders when they tempered with the Lahore Resolution, 1940 moved by our Premier Sher E Bangla. It was planned that the wings would remain separate but be tied by links of the Islamic faith. But the Western wing, which had opposed the creation of Pakistan till the end, never really understood the essence / ideology of Pakistan which was a project pioneered by us. I am afraid, you still do not understand this; that is why you are warring among yourselves.

Pakistan was ruined by West Pakistani Leaders - You had plenty of Presidents, Prime Ministers & Governor Generals who were from East-Pakistan !

And no we didn't oppose the creation of Pakistan - We just never were quite threatened by Hindu Domination owing to us being the majority in our Provinces unlike the Muhajirs or were a suppressed demographic like the Bengalis since the Mutiny & the Reversal of the Partition of Bengal, incidentally something which was more than contributory to the disproportionate representation of the Bengalis in State Apparatus, despite many a sincere effort by West Pakistani Politicians including Ayub Khan no less - I posted excerpts from a Civil Servant's Memoirs/Book a few months back on that our '71 War Thread whereby he'd stipulated, with evidence, all the many concessions that were made to increase the representation of Bengalis...all the positive discrimination but it was a long drawn effort !

And we put our full weight behind Pakistan when we saw the injustices inflicted on Muslims with our own eyes, the increasing friction between the two communities & finally the massacres that our people were subjected to in '47 & '48 - Something that made us more ardent supporters of Pakistan than any other demographic ever could be !

I agree that the Lahore Resolution should have been respected in full & no it did not call for a Single State united by Islam but two independent states - East Pakistan was a mistake that got rectified in '71 ! We should have parted our ways in '47.

And to think that the Project of Pakistan was pioneered by Bengalis is comic at best - It was the brain child of Jinnah & Iqbal whilst the rest of us, across the demographics, were clamoring about like a bunch of idiots ! Were it not for Muhammad Ali Jinnah no Suharwardy, no Liaquat - No nothing could have gotten us the country & were it not for Iqbal no Muslim would have awakened his Collective Consciousness & demanded his place in the comity of Nations ! Yes you might have give birth to the League but before Jinnah Sahib, the League was nothing more than landlords & industrialists who couldn't even get popular respect let alone popular vote of the Muslim Masses - So don't punch above your contribution !

And we Pakistanis are not waring amongst ourselves we've got a neighbor like Afghanistan & we're engaged in a security paradigm with India & currently have sold out leaders without a parallel in our or your history ! And but hey - We're still not going to call it quits & break the country apart.

 

[Silverblaze]

Oh please even one of your own who is now a Parliamentarian admitted to the validity of the Agartala Conspiracy Case against you !

How could such sell-outs be allowed to form a Government in Pakistan that would almost certainly be handled by elements from elsewhere - No wonder Mujib got two bullets in his head by the same Bengalis he, apparently, fought for !



No not really I'm sure when the Indian's top man is admitting in preparing for this for 9 months at its face value & God knows how long before that RAW was doing the stuff they were, those preparations didn't involve harmless pamphlet distribution, news excerpts or article writing - Your Mukhti Bahini & angry Bengali Mobs were not a reaction to our actions but something that compelled us to react, albeit in a disproportionately huge way ! And besides why would the ISI arm mobs - They are an intelligence agency for godsake - Not a Paramilitary Trainer ! And why do you think those Biharis ever so willingly joined up ? Because they had suffered at the hands of trigger happy disgruntled Bengalis infused with their victim mentality & blood lust for all the injustices done to them !



Pakistan was ruined by West Pakistani Leaders - You had plenty of Presidents, Prime Ministers & Governor Generals who were from East-Pakistan !

And no we didn't oppose the creation of Pakistan - We just never were quite threatened by Hindu Domination owing to us being the majority in our Provinces unlike the Muhajirs or were a suppressed demographic like the Bengalis since the Mutiny & the Reversal of the Partition of Bengal, incidentally something which was more than contributory to the disproportionate representation of the Bengalis in State Apparatus, despite many a sincere effort by West Pakistani Politicians including Ayub Khan no less - I posted excerpts from a Civil Servant's Memoirs/Book a few months back on that our '71 War Thread whereby he'd stipulated, with evidence, all the many concessions that were made to increase the representation of Bengalis...all the positive discrimination but it was a long drawn effort !

And we put our full weight behind Pakistan when we saw the injustices inflicted on Muslims with our own eyes, the increasing friction between the two communities & finally the massacres that our people were subjected to in '47 & '48 - Something that made us more ardent supporters of Pakistan than any other demographic ever could be !

I agree that the Lahore Resolution should have been respected in full & no it did not call for a Single State united by Islam but two independent states - East Pakistan was a mistake that got rectified in '71 ! We should have parted our ways in '47.

And to think that the Project of Pakistan was pioneered by Bengalis is comic at best - It was the brain child of Jinnah & Iqbal whilst the rest of us, across the demographics, were clamoring about like a bunch of idiots ! Were it not for Muhammad Ali Jinnah no Suharwardy, no Liaquat - No nothing could have gotten us the country & were it not for Iqbal no Muslim would have awakened his Collective Consciousness & demanded his place in the comity of Nations ! Yes you might have give birth to the League but before Jinnah Sahib, the League was nothing more than landlords & industrialists who couldn't even get popular respect let alone popular vote of the Muslim Masses - So don't punch above your contribution !

And we Pakistanis are not waring amongst ourselves we've got a neighbor like Afghanistan & we're engaged in a security paradigm with India & currently have sold out leaders without a parallel in our or your history ! And but hey - We're still not going to call it quits & break the country apart.

Confusing statements in the bold part.

Why does our history start in the 60s and 70s and not before that. The economic disparity between both wings was evident.

West Pakistan despite being smaller in size in population was much better off even though it had a larger illiterate population.

This glorification of West Pakistanis is not good.

The league after Mr. Jinnah was also made up of land lords and industrialists. Have a look at Pakistan's first cabinet.

East Pakistanis were not given even a proper share in the GHQ.

India exploited this condition.

 

[Armstrong]

Confusing statements in the bold part.

Why does our history start in the 60s and 70s and not before that. The economic disparity between both wings was evident.

West Pakistan despite being smaller in size in population was much better off even though it had a larger illiterate population.

This glorification of West Pakistanis is not good.

The league after Mr. Jinnah was also made up of land lords and industrialists. Have a look at Pakistan's first cabinet.

East Pakistanis were not given even a proper share in the GHQ.

India exploited this condition.

I never said that disparity wasn't there nor did I say that Jinnah Sahib's league didn't have Industrialists or Landlords in it - For godsake read it again !

I said that part of that disparity was because as I understand unlike most of the Provinces in the West the Bengalis & at that Bengali Muslims were an oppressed demographic after the Indian Mutiny of 1857 & later Reversal of Bengal - Therefore it is not fantastic to suggest that the relevant manpower wasn't available to fill the State Machinery, that most of the Jute was grown in East Bengal but almost all, as I recall, Mills were in West Bengal & whereas Positive Discrimination was instituted for the Bengalis, as I have previously posted on the '71 War Thread (the Long One) - Use the Search Button, it was bound to take longer than otherwise because of the enormity of task & the ever present corruption, nepotism & mismanagement that have always characterized 3rd World Countries.

About the Jinnah Sahib & the League - I was exactly making that same point, a point that Iqbal himself laments in one of his Letters to Jinnah (perhaps you should read them), whereby the League wouldn't be able to be enamored by the support of the Muslims with these Landlords, Industrialist etc. as its Office Bearers & hence He - Jinnah - was needed to bring credibility to the League as he was someone that the Muslims had the 'right to look up to' ! Therefore without him there would be No Pakistan - That was all my contention !

And lastly there was no glorification of West Pakistan on my part but simply an allusion to me disputing the demonization of West Pakistan as evil incarnate whereas the Bengalis were the proverbial unblemished dove of peace & prosperity !

 

[Silverblaze]

I never said that disparity wasn't there nor did I say that Jinnah Sahib's league didn't have Industrialists or Landlords in it - For godsake read it again !

I said that part of that disparity was because as I understand unlike most of the Provinces in the West the Bengalis & at that Bengali Muslims were an oppressed demographic after the Indian Mutiny of 1857 & later Reversal of Bengal - Therefore it is not fantastic to suggest that the relevant manpower wasn't available to fill the State Machinery, that most of the Jute was grown in East Bengal but almost all, as I recall, Mills were in West Bengal & whereas Positive Discrimination was instituted for the Bengalis, as I have previously posted on the '71 War Thread (the Long One) - Use the Search Button, it was bound to take longer than otherwise because of the enormity of task & the ever present corruption, nepotism & mismanagement that have always characterized 3rd World Countries.

About the Jinnah Sahib & the League - I was exactly making that same point, a point that Iqbal himself laments in one of his Letters to Jinnah (perhaps you should read them), whereby the League wouldn't be able to be enamored by the support of the Muslims with these Landlords, Industrialist etc. as its Office Bearers & hence He - Jinnah - was needed to bring credibility to the League as he was someone that the Muslims had the 'right to look up to' ! Therefore without him there would be No Pakistan - That was all my contention !

And lastly there was no glorification of West Pakistan on my part but simply an allusion to me disputing the demonization of West Pakistan as evil incarnate whereas the Bengalis were the proverbial unblemished dove of peace & prosperity !

No one is suggesting that some Bengalis were completely innocent.

The point that one cannot agree with is the colonial legacy that West Pakistan willingly followed. There was no Bengal regiment after 1857. Bengalis were suspects.

This was carried on by West Pakistan. Why?

Time and again something happened that made East Pakistan more and more angry. The language issue, economic deprivation and under representation in the armed forces and civil bureaucracy.

In all earnest, Pakistan's civil military bureaucracy never tried to rid Pakistan of its colonial past. Their focus was more on dissociating themselves with India.

The war of 71 was really really bloody and could have been avoided.

 

[Armstrong]

No one is suggesting that some Bengalis were completely innocent.

The point that one cannot agree with is the colonial legacy that West Pakistan willingly followed. There was no Bengal regiment after 1857. Bengalis were suspects.

This was carried on by West Pakistan. Why?

Time and again something happened that made East Pakistan more and more angry. The language issue, economic deprivation and under representation in the armed forces and civil bureaucracy.

In all earnest, Pakistan's civil military bureaucracy never tried to rid Pakistan of its colonial past. Their focus was more on dissociating themselves with India.

The war of 71 was really really bloody and could have been avoided.

Actually there was an East Bengal Rifles - The one that took part in the Defense of Lahore !

As I was mentioning, I had quote excerpts from the book written by a Civil Servant (I've forgotten his name...I'm sorry) who had served with the Muslim League Pre-Partition, helped Pakistan setup her Civil Services & he later went on to be the Head of the Service - He had stipulated all the many measures taken there in ! You can use the Search Button to find that thread & go through all the detail about the Quotas, about reduced Standards etc. that were used to bring about Greater Bengali representation but it was bound to take time & for a 3rd world country - Quite a bit of time !

What I'm suggesting was that No West Pakistan did not carry out Colonial Legacy - There was a reason & a context for the things that happened & it can't be explained away with two words 'malafide intentions' as our friends are ever so quick to point out !

Conversely why do you think the Pukhtoons dominate the Transport Industry demographically, almost, in a monopolistic manner, or Sialkot was able to flourish abundantly despite the stupidities of subsequent Punjab & Federal Governments or why did Karachi went from being an alright city to the Financial Heartland of Pakistan - People....not the Government ! No amount of Jute Forex got a Pukhtoon to open up a trucking business, or the Sialkotis to fund their on Airport or the Memons & many a Sindhis to open up huge financial institutions in Karachi !

And yes '71 could have been & should have been avoided - It our failure to address the injustices & the narrative that was being built because of that !

 

[A.Rafay]

Is that their dream?? let them dream!

 

[Silverblaze]

Actually there was an East Bengal Rifles - The one that took part in the Defense of Lahore !

As I was mentioning, I had quote excerpts from the book written by a Civil Servant (I've forgotten his name...I'm sorry) who had served with the Muslim League Pre-Partition, helped Pakistan setup her Civil Services & he later went on to be the Head of the Service - He had stipulated all the many measures taken there in ! You can use the Search Button to find that thread & go through all the detail about the Quotas, about reduced Standards etc. that were used to bring about Greater Bengali representation but it was bound to take time & for a 3rd world country - Quite a bit of time !

What I'm suggesting was that No West Pakistan did not carry out Colonial Legacy - There was a reason & a context for the things that happened & it can't be explained away with two words 'malafide intentions' as our friends are ever so quick to point out !

Conversely why do you think the Pukhtoons dominate the Transport Industry demographically, almost, in a monopolistic manner, or Sialkot was able to flourish abundantly despite the stupidities of subsequent Punjab & Federal Governments or why did Karachi went from being an alright city to the Financial Heartland of Pakistan - People....not the Government ! No amount of Jute Forex got a Pukhtoon to open up a trucking business, or the Sialkotis to fund their on Airport or the Memons & many a Sindhis to open up huge financial institutions in Karachi !

And yes '71 could have been & should have been avoided - It our failure to address the injustices & the narrative that was being built because of that !

Sadly, I do not agree.

It was the East Pakistan Rifles.

And yes the West Pakistanis have very fervently followed in the foot steps of colonialism by maintaining feudalistic tendencies. The country was effectively run by civil military bureaucrats and still is.

Every colonial myth has been prolonged. Bengali suspicion is one of them.

The concept of a federation was never truly implemented. Autonomy was thought to be equal to separation.

Bengalis were equal citizens, but never given equal share in power. How many Bengali Generals do you know?

The problem is centralization of power which the British used and this is still carried by Pakistan.

Had we changed the system, Pakistan would have been the third largest nation in the world sitting on the two most important seaports.

 

[Gentelman]

No one is suggesting that some Bengalis were completely innocent.

The point that one cannot agree with is the colonial legacy that West Pakistan willingly followed. There was no Bengal regiment after 1857. Bengalis were suspects.

This was carried on by West Pakistan. Why?

Time and again something happened that made East Pakistan more and more angry. The language issue, economic deprivation and under representation in the armed forces and civil bureaucracy.

In all earnest, Pakistan's civil military bureaucracy never tried to rid Pakistan of its colonial past. Their focus was more on dissociating themselves with India.

The war of 71 was really really bloody and could have been avoided.

Hey you language issue man who in west Pakistan speaks Urdu??
just 8% in which almost all 8% too speaks their own provincial language too did we cried like hell to make pashtu,balochi,sindhi,saraiki or punjabi our national language??
and East have same no. of seats what did their oarlimantarians did??
the economic development in a reign and laws are duty of the leader………

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

1.O Muslims! O Turks! Beware; be warned! The enemy first desecrated Jerusalem. Then it destroyed Baghdad. Aleppo was next. It now knocks on the door of another center of Islamic heritage, Damascus. The next target of WCC (Western Christian Civilization0 is Istanbul. For centuries they have pined to retrieve Constantinople.

2. O Turkish brethren! Your potential threat is not Greece only. It is the entire WCC. Greece is just the front line of the lost Holy Roman Empire. Don't feel satisfied by matching nukes and missiles and tanks and fighters. The enemy shall strike from inside. Strengthen your Iman. Your Islamic character is his main target.

When did your internship with Al Qaida get over ?

P.S- Looks like Pakistanis are itching more for a fight with the Greeks than Turkey itself.