Greece vs Turkey

[Baybars Han]

@Sinan

No one compares Greek military to Turkish military.
But calling Greece third world country is bull$hit. Educated and rational people must reacted to things like this.

@Baybars Han
Did you forget about British protection of Ottoman Empire against Russia.
Crimean war was carried by Brits. When Russians was a few miles from Istanbul in second half of 19century, it was British diplomacy and their overhelming powerful navy that made Russian retreat, not Ottoman army.
No one cries about Ottoman domination. My country was nearly 400 years under Ottoman rule, and what? I have read Halil Inalcik, and I can make a bet in 100 euros that 90% of Turkish nationalists who are proud of mighty Ottoman empire, never heard of him.
No one tries to undermine Ottoman glory, just spare us that nationalist rethoric about "SPECIAL OTTOMAN EMPIRE, BEST EVER, NEVER DEFEATED, BEST BEST BEST".

Simply it was powerful empire but nothing better or worse then British, Russian, French, Persian....

I'm just responding to your European brothers. If you bring up what could of happens if Russians done this, then let me bring you the worst.

IF Ottomans killed Russian Peter in the Russo-Ottoman War of 1710–11 instead of releasing him as prisoner it could have changed the course of history as Russian army was completely surrounded and hopeless. Killing Peter then and a large army then would have destroyed the Russian Empure and course of history.

I also read Halil Inalcik books he's a great historian.

 

[denel]

Greece third world country? No way.

Greek average salary is nearly two times bigger then Turkish. (917euros vs 552 euros).
University of Athens is one of top 100 university in the world, Turkey dont have any in top 100.
Life expectancy in Greece is 81 vs 75 in Turkey.
Terrorism in Greece doesnt exist, Turks have problems with ISIL, PKK, internal disputes.
Human Devolpment Index of Greece is on another level when we compare it with Turkish HDI.

Simply, even in miserably economic situation, Greece is better place to live. That doesnt mean, that Turkey is hellhole, just need decades of improvement to be considered as industrialized country.



That's the reason why rennaisance was born in Europe but not in Islamic world.

Western world made bigger contribution to humanity in last 120 years, then rest of the world combined in last 2000. FACT.

Friend, when i first visited Greece - Athens, i was shocked.... I am serious shocked; it was pathetic. It was a third world nation; just because it got into EU does not make it any where closer to industrialised. You compare the salary levels - that is incorrect. Average wages are far less; they were boosted post EU but before it was around $240/month; why are people starving in Greece - those who have their own land are ok but many in the cities have to make do with just with 2 meals a day if any; there are soup kitchens all over the place.
Sorry, i have to humbly disagree - in Greece, you cannot even find local toothpaste - it comes from elsewhere; you are trying to compare industrialisation - come on - probably just one of the trolls who has no reality check.

 

[flamer84]

Friend, when i first visited Greece - Athens, i was shocked.... I am serious shocked; it was pathetic. It was a third world nation; just because it got into EU does not make it any where closer to industrialised. You compare the salary levels - that is incorrect. Average wages are far less; they were boosted post EU but before it was around $240/month; why are people starving in Greece - those who have their own land are ok but many in the cities have to make do with just with 2 meals a day if any; there are soup kitchens all over the place.
Sorry, i have to humbly disagree - in Greece, you cannot even find local toothpaste - it comes from elsewhere; you are trying to compare industrialisation - come on - probably just one of the trolls who has no reality check.

He gave you international economic, social and development data by abilitated institutions ,while you are peddling fairy tales and you're accusing him of being the troll? Pdf Ians and their illusions )))

 

[damm1t]

Yes i do know how the Renaissance was able to flourish. When the Ottomans invaded Byzanz they started a killing spree and millions of artists and scientist did escape to Italy.

Another bs from you. After the conquest of İstanbul, Fatih Sultan himself declared am imperial order about not to touch anybody who lives in former Byzantine lands.

About your high ego, You wanna hear the truth about Romans?

The Romans were no great innovators of culture. They mostly copied the so-called Hellenistic and Egyptian cultures. Yes, Rome may have conquered physically but she was conquered culturally. The religion of the Romans, their gods, their rites originally came from ancient Egypt. There were 5000 year old Egyptian equivalents of Roman gods, 5000 years before Rome was built. Actually some claim origin of Hellen language was also ancient Egypt.

 

[ValerioAurelius]

I see Atilla as my ancestor too who raped the Romans countless times, then Ottomans came and raped the eastern roman empire(byzantine). Italy is nothing in the fall of the Ottomans don't try to act like you was something. Fact is we pissed in both the western and roman empire, totally destroyed the eastern Rome capital and put it to dust.

Today we occupy it. Muhaha. This was all from a few families that came to Anatolia and created something from nothing. So we gained a large country from virtually nothing while you lost everything.

Attila? Died with nothing, his troops crushed by the roman army at the catalaunian planes. Its interesting that you see a loser as your hero, who got defeated and achieved nothing.

You are right with one thing, you destroyed Byzanz. Istanbul was disgusting i hope one day you will be able to rebuild it or reach a certain standard. The poverty there is astounding.

I feel also sad, that your country has such a weak economy. Smaller than Romania. As i said, i wish you the best. I coult not live in such low standards.

Another bs from you. After the conquest of İstanbul, Fatih Sultan himself declared am imperial order about not to touch anybody who lives in former Byzantine lands.

About your high ego, You wanna hear the truth about Romans?

The Romans were no great innovators of culture. They mostly copied the so-called Hellenistic and Egyptian cultures. Yes, Rome may have conquered physically but she was conquered culturally. The religion of the Romans, their gods, their rites originally came from ancient Egypt. There were 5000 year old Egyptian equivalents of Roman gods, 5000 years before Rome was built. Actually some claim origin of Hellen language was also ancient Egypt.

Pretty much bullshit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_scholars_in_the_Renaissance

It was pretty much impossible for educated people to exist in Fatihs terror state. Italy profited enormous whil3 Anatolia went into stagnation. There was almost zero drive for science and progress in ottoman empire.

As for the rest of your nonsense, Rome created an empire spanning from Scotland to Iraq and united with with the political system and high education.

5000 years before rome was build? We have no records about that time. In egypt was Negade culture I then with no written records ag all. The roman pantheon was build from etruskian and greek religion.

 

[denel]

He gave you international economic, social and development data by abilitated institutions ,while you are peddling fairy tales and you're accusing him of being the troll? Pdf Ians and their illusions )))

go and visit greece pal.... not just the islands... reality is very very grim.
btw, i was at the university across the parliament; most researchers have left for US. I visited my greek friends from across entire spectrum - academic, govt, banking, shipping. I have walked and traversed greece so i do know what i am speaking about. Corruption is endemic - a surgeon declares salary of a cleaner, only just a few years back they got a land register going in athens ... imagine that!.
Greece when compared to Turkey is a complete basket case - even Botswana across the border is in far far better shape with well focus Government.

 

[flamer84]

go and visit greece pal.... not just the islands... reality is very very grim.
btw, i was at the university across the parliament; most researchers have left for US. I visited my greek friends from across entire spectrum - academic, govt, banking, shipping. I have walked and traversed greece so i do know what i am speaking about. Corruption is endemic - a surgeon declares salary of a cleaner, only just a few years back they got a land register going in athens ... imagine that!.
Greece when compared to Turkey is a complete basket case - even Botswana across the border is in far far better shape with well focus Government.

The economic crisis has hit them hard but as DejanSRB pointed out the discussion should be around international standards,not personal feelings. So,your point is not valid,mainly because it's not actually a point but a rant.

 

[denel]

The economic crisis has hit them hard but as DejanSRB pointed out the discussion should be around international standards,not personal feelings. So,your point is not valid,mainly because it's not actually a point but a rant.

There is no standard when it comes to greece . It has disappeared. There is simply nothing left there.

 

[Avicenna]

The economic crisis has hit them hard but as DejanSRB pointed out the discussion should be around international standards,not personal feelings. So,your point is not valid,mainly because it's not actually a point but a rant.

people like you are delusional.

 

[blondeturkish]

last year 2million Turkish tourist visited Greece. and have given the Greek economy a life line. i like the Greek we have a lot of things in common. they are far better than some of our other neighbours, having said that Greece can't never be compared to Turkey economically militarily. and this thread is pointless

 

[ebrahym]

Greece is a millinea old nation based on history. And Turkey? Well you know yourself.

You are an anonymous nation. You have no Aristoteles, no Platon, no Leonidas, no Epikur, no Plutarch, no Homer.

actually turkish history is older with hittities and gopkel teki ........... but who is judging?

 

[ValerioAurelius]

actually turkish history is older with hittities and gopkel teki ........... but who is judging?

Thats not turkish history. Thats like George Bush claiming Pocahontas for his ancestors.

You cant have it both ways. That one guy praised the Turks for destroying evrything on Anatolia.

Now you come and say its part of their history (eevn so turks feel pride for destroying it).

So what now? You want tell me most Turls are just islamified Greeks=? Biological thats true but it would also show they suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[DejanSRB]

actually turkish history is older with hittities and gopkel teki ........... but who is judging?

18 Roman emperors was born on Serbian soil. And they dont have nothing in common with Serbs.

If I was in charge of European Union, I would forgive all debts of Greece.

That's how much Europeans owe to them.
Greece and China are most important civilizations in world history.
They both shape our world. Greece on west, China on east. All other civilization are semiperiphery or periphery

 

[ValerioAurelius]

18 Roman emperors was born on Serbian soil. And they dont have nothing in common with Serbs.

If I was in charge of European Union, I would forgive all debts of Greece.

That's how much Europeans owe to them.
Greece and China are most important civilizations in world history.
They both shape our world. Greece on west, China on east. All other civilization are semiperiphery or periphery

Greece is not helped when its debt is forgiven. It needs help in learning to better itself. To forgive debt would be bad. It can and it will do this itself.

 

[DejanSRB]

Greece is not helped when its debt is forgiven. It needs help in learning to better itself. To forgive debt would be bad. It can and it will do this itself.

Yeah I know.

I just make a symbolic statement how much ancient Greece and ancient Rome contributed to modern world.