Greece snatched Turkish islands reporters say

[amalakas]

Today Greeks were called RUM in Ottoman times, not
Greek. Rum because of Roman empire. Greeks didn't exist back then, neither now, neither for 2000 years.

After 1821, magically the Greeks appeared on the globe again. It is all the design of the Brits because they wanted hellenic people to return on the earth. Greece is a project that failed.

As a response to your previous -now deleted- posts as well.

you are referring to a position that was put forward in the 19th century and you don't even know it.

There was a university of Milan DNA study presented in the Greek media a long time ago. According to the Italians ancient and contemporary Greeks share a 97% racial similarity. 97% in 6000 years can only be surpassed if I am not mistaken by the 99% similarity of Russian steppes inhabitants (again proven by DNA testing).

Greeks are Greeks, I think you should better examine the similarities of Eastern turks with western turks. You may find some bad surprises for you there (as attested by some of your fellow turks here in the forum)

 

[atatwolf]

As a response to your previous -now deleted- posts as well.

you are referring to a position that was put forward in the 19th century and you don't even know it.

There was a university of Milan DNA study presented in the Greek media a long time ago. According to the Italians ancient and contemporary Greeks share a 97% racial similarity. 97% in 6000 years can only be surpassed if I am not mistaken by the 99% similarity of Russian steppes inhabitants (again proven by DNA testing).

Greeks are Greeks, I think you should better examine the similarities of Eastern turks with western turks. You may find some bad surprises for you there (as attested by some of your fellow turks here in the forum)

Do you really think that is true? after Greeks being ruled by numerous different people and empires you are 97% Greek? Hahaha, and you call me uneducated. Stop believing in those non-sense theories. Today Greeks look middle-eastern like Turks that is why some Greeks and Turks can look the same. It is because Greeks were not called Greeks but RUM. (roman) Greeks were absored into Roman empire and later invaders such as the crusaders, Huns, Turks and others shaped today people that live in Greece.

By the way do you know that your name is a curse word? I got a warning for using your name :/

 

[amalakas]

Do you really think that is true? after Greeks being ruled by numerous different people and empires you are 97% Greek? Hahaha, and you call me uneducated. Stop believing in those non-sense theories. Today Greeks look middle-eastern like Turks that is why some Greeks and Turks can look the same. It is because Greeks were not called Greeks but RUM. (roman) Greeks were absored into Roman empire and later invaders such as the crusaders, Huns, Turks and others shaped today people that live in Greece.

It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what I know. What matters is what you think and how willing you are to accept the possibility that things exist beyond what you perceive as reality.

The established scientific world, that comprises anthropologists, historians, sociologists, scholars and the list goes on, accepts and has rigorously verified that Greeks are Greeks. They haven't done it just for the Greeks. They are for example mapping the worlds DNA genome around the globe. If you were to read a little you might have picked up on that..

You want to believe otherwise.. who am I to deny you this prerogative?

There were still people who thought the earth was flat, even as Columbus set foot on the Americas...

 

[atatwolf]

It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what I know. What matters is what you think and how willing you are to accept the possibility that things exist beyond what you perceive as reality.

The established scientific world, that comprises anthropologists, historians, sociologists, scholars and the list goes on, accepts and has rigorously verified that Greeks are Greeks. They haven't done it just for the Greeks. They are for example mapping the worlds DNA genome around the globe. If you were to read a little you might have picked up on that..

You want to believe otherwise.. who am I to deny you this prerogative?

There were still people who thought the earth was flat, even as Columbus set foot on the Americas...

Okey, give me sources that Greeks are Greeks. Those people who say those things are pseudo scientist. Your brought up the British, those are outdated sources and invalid, British wanted to create Greece to exploit it, ofcourse they are going to lie.

If you can give me sources, I will have a look, but even if you gave me sources it is impossible that today's Greeks are linked to Ancient people. There is a huge gap in between. How can it be that people were not Greeks and suddenly after centuries they become Greeks?

 

[amalakas]

Okey, give me sources that Greeks are Greeks. Those people who say those things are pseudo scientist. Your brought up the British, those are outdated sources and invalid, British wanted to create Greece to exploit it, ofcourse they are going to lie.

If you can give me sources, I will have a look, but even if you gave me sources it is impossible that today's Greeks are linked to Ancient people. There is a huge gap in between. How can it be that people were not Greeks and suddenly after centuries they become Greeks?

first a lesson in common sense.

you cannot ask for sources and in the same sentence declare that even if you are given sources, your argument still holds. That clearly shows you are hellbent on believing what you want.

second, you are free to believe whatever you choose. It is your right. This is a free world.

third. The onus of providing proof is on the one who questions something. Not the one who represents the established.

if anyone should provide proof on this argument. It is you. Not me. There are plenty of sources arguing from link to extra terrestrials to Greeks being chinese. It is up to you to find the credible ones and present them. Not up to me mate.

 

[atatwolf]

first a lesson in common sense.

you cannot ask for sources and in the same sentence declare that even if you are given sources, your argument still holds. That clearly shows you are hellbent on believing what you want.

second, you are free to believe whatever you choose. It is your right. This is a free world.

third. The onus of providing proof is on the one who questions something. Not the one who represents the established.

if anyone should provide proof on this argument. It is you. Not me. There are plenty of sources arguing from link to extra terrestrials to Greeks being chinese. It is up to you to find the credible ones and present them. Not up to me mate.

The onus is on you. You say that Greeks are Ancient Greeks. Then why:
1. Do you Greeks call yourself Rum before 1821
2. Why did Greece had to implement forcefull Hellenization of Greece after independence?
3. Why people were not aware they were Greeks
4. Where is the DNA proof that Greeks are Greeks?

 

[amalakas]

The onus is on you. You say that Greeks are Ancient Greeks. Then why:
1. Do you Greeks call yourself Rum before 1821
2. Why did Greece had to implement forcefull Hellenization of Greece after independence?
3. Why people were not aware they were Greeks
4. Where is the DNA proof that Greeks are Greeks?

I am afraid that the one making the claim should be the one who has to prove the validity of the claim.
That is why in courts the principle is: "Innocent until proven guilty" ..unless of course Turkish courts operate on a different principle...

And in our little case you are challenging the authenticity of being Greek. You should prove it.. so "Greek until proven otherwise".. we are waiting for your arguments mate ...

 

[BronzePlaque]

I wonder when this topic will be closed..So much off topic and nationalistic BS going on here

 

[atatwolf]

I wonder when this topic will be closed..So much off topic and nationalistic BS going on here

What is wrong with nationalism?

I know a very good solution. Move your cursor to the upper right corner of the screen and close the window. Problem solved.

I am afraid that the one making the claim should be the one who has to prove the validity of the claim.
That is why in courts the principle is: "Innocent until proven guilty" ..unless of course Turkish courts operate on a different principle...

And in our little case you are challenging the authenticity of being Greek. You should prove it.. so "Greek until proven otherwise".. we are waiting for your arguments mate ...

it doesn't work like court when we talk about science or history. You make a possitive claim, so you need to come with evidence to back up your premise. This is how history works.

 

[BronzePlaque]

What is wrong with nationalism?

I know a very good solution. Move your cursor to the upper right corner of the screen and close the window. Problem solved.

it doesn't work like court when we talk about science or history. You make a possitive claim, so you need to come with evidence to back up your premise. This is how history works.

There is nothing wrong with nationalism..There is problem with blind- utter nonsense nationalism..

 

[atatwolf]

There is nothing wrong with nationalism..There is problem with blind- utter nonsense nationalism..

Yes.. you shouldn't do that

 

[LegionnairE]

Rolling Stones Satisfaction - YouTube

You are boring me. Seriously, shut up if you don't have anything to say

Most of those lands were useless steppe lands in Central-Asia. And in despite of your former territories, the Greeks really contributed to the world. I can name countless Greek scientists, while Turkish contribution to mankind is worthless.

Ζήτω Ελλάδα!

not just steppes how about northern Africa(Ottomans)? How about India(Mughals)? Northern china(Xiongnu)? how about Europe(Huns, Ottomans)? Turkish contribution to mankind is priceless. Scientific advancements would never take place if not for the advancements in land warfare and military doctrines.

Even renaissance wouldn't happen if the siege and conquest of Constantinople didn't take place. Ottomans opened a new era with artillery, it resulted with the end of feudalism and made way for the nationalism.

Problem with Ottomans was that they were overconfident as usual, they never gave a crap about the events in europe. They didn't analyse French revolution and industrial revolution and such. When the nationalism was rising they got stuck with the religion.

Turks closed two eras in human history, one with great migrations and the other with the fall of constantinople. Changing the shape of the world forever.

ps. @amalakas I think I'm not the one you should avoid answering.

 

[amalakas]

ps. @amalakas I think I'm not the one you should avoid answering.

I am sorry, when did I avoid answering you? I am on my tablet usually so I may have missed your post. Did you ask me something or made a comment I should have answered? Apologies I really didn't see it or missed it maybe, can you point me to it again please?

thanks

 

[LegionnairE]

I am sorry, when did I avoid answering you? I am on my tablet usually so I may have missed your post. Did you ask me something or made a comment I should have answered? Apologies I really didn't see it or missed it maybe, can you point me to it again please?

thanks

It's cool..
http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...kish-islands-reporters-say-3.html#post3735586

 

[amalakas]

Ah yes.. thanks

I'm not here for philosophy lessons, my arguement isn't about right or wrong. But is it worth going to war?

Give me one solid explaination why 12nm is so crucial for Greece. It doesn't leave any room for Turkish ships to pass, so what does it bring to you? nothing. it's just childish

Well casus belli declared and Greece couldn't claim 12nm territorial waters. What does it tell about you?

Well, if we put together all the lands Turks have ruled in history it makes twice the land that borders present day China. If you look at it this way about half the old world is stolen from Turks

And yes I'm fond of populares as a whole but Gaius Marius is special for me.

First of all we need to acknowledge that Turkey has exercised a 12 mile extension to her territorial waters in the Black Sea and eastern med since 1964. Double standards it seems here.
Second, 12 miles is not necessarily crucial to Greece. The Aegean is a unique archipelago. 12 nm waters would mean that shipping lanes would be affected not just for Turkey but for everyone. Greece was very careful to preserve her sovereign right by declaring:

"ο χρόνος και ο τόπος άσκησης των εν λόγω δικαιωμάτων, χωρίς τούτο να σημαίνει ούτε κατ' ελάχιστο απεμπόληση εκ μέρους της των εν λόγω δικαιωμάτων, είναι ένα ζήτημα που απορρέει από την εθνική της στρατηγική"

this translates to: "the time and place of exercising the rights in question and without this implying in the least the waiving on behalf of Greece of these rights, is a matter stemming of Greece's national strategic planning"

and thus maintaining the sovereign right, without extending the waters. That is mainly to keep the current shipping status quo intact.

Quite frankly in this declaration, I don't see anything meriting a casus belli. Do you?

This is not a unilateral move by Greece. These are in article 2, Ν.2321/1995 of the international treaty. Turkey hasn't signed this treaty. However this was not a treaty created nor planned nor implemented by Greece. It has hundreds of participants and it was sanctioned by someone else. We didn't make the rules to this game. Others did.

Turkey is in a position that quite simply translates to a kid saying that he doesn't like the rules of the game simply because he doesn't get to play as much with the ball. Kind of foolish really.

The whole island propaganda is now another ploy to further inhibit Greece from solidifying the justification of this treaty by bringing into play more and more islets. Nothing more.


So to answer you question simply. Crucial because if one doesn't exercise their sovereign rights then they are waiving them and someone is going to take advantage of them.

Besides I already mentioned. If turkey has psychological issues as a political animal with the 12 mile waters, then it should join the EU.
Italy has practically no borders with Greece. Turkey could too..