Greece snatched Turkish islands reporters say

[atatwolf]

There is no written rule that says, every body has the right to exercise 12 nm, Turkey simple doesn't give you that right for security reasons. The fair approach is that the Aegean sea gets cut in half, half for Greeks, half for Turks, but you Greeks want whole Aegean sea. This is unrealistic and childish. If Greece persist on this, Turkey will be forced to exercise casus belli.

Actually Turkey has bigger claim on Aegean, we have much more battle ships and Greece is far smaller country and population, Greece should have 1/3th of Aegean, which is more than enough for a country as Greece.

This has all to do with Greece trying to sabotage Turkey. If Greece still hasn't learnt that saboting Turkey will mean destruction of their country you still haven't learned your lesson. Just look at the state of Greece, all because you wanted to arms race with the Turks your people are starving in the streets.

 

[amalakas]

There is no written rule that says, every body has the right to exercise 12 nm, Turkey simple doesn't give you that right for security reasons. The fair approach is that the Aegean sea gets cut in half, half for Greeks, half for Turks, but you Greeks want whole Aegean sea. This is unrealistic and childish. If Greece persist on this, Turkey will be forced to exercise casus belli.

Actually Turkey has bigger claim on Aegean, we have much more battle ships and Greece is far smaller country and population, Greece should have 1/3th of Aegean, which is more than enough for a country as Greece.

This has all to do with Greece trying to sabotage Turkey. If Greece still hasn't learnt that saboting Turkey will mean destruction of their country you still haven't learned your lesson. Just look at the state of Greece, all because you wanted to arms race with the Turks your people are starving in the streets.

You must be a teenager. Really .. do you understand when you read or do you not read at all?

These are in article 2, Ν.2321/1995 in Law of the Sea Treaty. Battleships ?? wtf?

 

[atatwolf]

You must be a teenager. Really .. do you understand when you read or do you not read at all?

These are in article 2, Ν.2321/1995 in Law of the Sea Treaty. Battleships ?? wtf?

Read my lips:

T u r k e y didn't s i g n that t r e a t y

Why would we want to sign that treaty? ahahah, you are funny and dumb at the same time. Aegean is Turkish sea because if it is not, casus belli is going to be exercised on Greek national ***. You know this, I know this, what are we talking about now?

 

[amalakas]

Read my lips:

T u r k e y didn't s i g n that t r e a t y

Why would we want to sign that treaty? ahahah, you are funny and dumb at the same time. Aegean is Turkish sea because if it is not, casus belli is going to be exercised on Greek national ***. You know this, I know this, what are we talking about now?

And read my posts.. everyone else who signed was conspiring against Turkey? You didn't sing EU treaties either, however you deal with EU as a direct consequence of the Treaties signed between the EU members, by implication you recognising these treaties.

And besides, me mentioning that there is a Treaty doesn't mean Turkey has to uphold it. It was more along the lines of "WE DIDN'T MAKE THE RULES TO THIS GAME!" others did. Go pester them and stop talking nonsense about Greece trying to snatch islands that already belong to her.

Aegean is Turkish sea because if it is not, casus belli is going to be exercised on Greek national ***. You know this, I know this, what are we talking about now?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...sh-islands-reporters-say-6.html#ixzz2GMLZ78zM

I am stunned by the level of eloquence and education here... seriously, how old are you?

 

[atatwolf]

And read my posts.. everyone else who signed was conspiring against Turkey? You didn't sing EU treaties either, however you deal with EU as a direct consequence of the Treaties signed between the EU members, by implication you recognising these treaties.

And besides, me mentioning that there is a Treaty doesn't mean Turkey has to uphold it. It was more along the lines of "WE DIDN'T MAKE THE RULES TO THIS GAME!" others did. Go pester them and stop talking nonsense about Greece trying to snatch islands that already belong to her.

EU can't impose anything on Turkey. We are not part of it and if we look at developments Europe is loosing Turkey. EU is not objective in the matter. So that is one thing. Second thing,Treaties, you can't impose a treaty we didn't sign, not directly not indirectly. EU knows very well, if it bitches too much, it will loose Turkey. At the moment there is casus belli for Greece, why doesn't EU do anything? Exactly, we didn't sign that treaty, so I'm sorry but Greece doesn't have a foot to stand on. It is better for Greece to do what Turkey wants otherwise, if you sabotage us on sea, we will sabotage you economically and your people will starve in the streets. Greece is surrounded with enemies too. Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria, Greece shouldn't be too nationalistic because at the end your population will suffer. You can't simply afford it.

I am stunned by the level of eloquence and education here... seriously, how old are you?

You began with ad hominem attacks. If you can't defeat the argument don't attack the person.

 

[amalakas]

EU can't impose anything on Turkey. We are not part of it and if we look at developments Europe is loosing Turkey. EU is not objective in the matter. So that is one thing. Second thing,Treaties, you can't impose a treaty we didn't sign, not directly not indirectly. EU knows very well, if it bitches too much, it will loose Turkey. At the moment there is casus belli for Greece, why doesn't EU do anything? Exactly, we didn't sign that treaty, so I'm sorry but Greece doesn't have a foot to stand on. It is better for Greece to do what Turkey wants otherwise, if you sabotage us on sea, we will sabotage you economically and your people will starve in the streets. Greece is surrounded with enemies too. Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria, Greece shouldn't be too nationalistic because at the end your population will suffer. You can't simply afford it.


You began with ad hominem attacks. If you can't defeat the argument don't attack the person.

What argument? you make no argument other than "we have more guns than you do, we'll do whatever we want!"
You seriously want me to argue at that level?

Let us not hide behind our fingers. You are a clear expression of what Greeks call "aggressive imperialistic backwards and brutal Turkey"


There are thankfully other members in this forum that are firm, rigid but logical and capable of understanding politics who with their sound arguments and nice approach dispel the bad impression people like you make.

Honestly to me you seem like a young fanatic, someone who would enlist in the grey wolfs and throw some rocks to someone's head or something. I disapprove of Greek fanatics with a passion, you can imagine how little I think of any other fanatic.

Whatever you have said so far is driven my nationalistic feelings fuelled by lurking hatred for others and especially Greeks.

Greece hasn't snatched any islands off of Turkey or anyone else. Live with it.

You have more guns and more ships and more crap .. Bravo, so What ? You are gonna do something with it ? Why ?
Have you (Turkey) really got ANY legitimate and NOT unilateral reason that you may exercise force? NO
Even in this weakened state Greece has far more legitimacy behind her than Turkey does. That is why nothing has happened so far.
As the current situation holds, Greece's islands are EU's most eastern borders. Do you comprehend that or not?
You keep wanna measure dicks here. As if anyone cares.
Not only that, but for most if not all of our lifetimes, Turkey is NOT going to be the biggest dog in the neighbourhood, Russia is and Russia is going to carry on being that.

So spare me the lionisms. And if you want a friendly advice, find something else to channel your anger.

If you weren't so blinded by your own false assumptions, you would be able to understand some of the political moves Turkey has been doing over the last 20 years or so. But Noooo; you would rather shout "we have more guns/ships/crap than you..." fine by me mate.
The political anxieties Turkey has with the 12 mile extension are going to be solved when Turkey realizes that it is being unrealistic to pursue something that can be attained via guns only and that is still questionable.
Turkey has far more to gain having a solid and good relationship with Greece, than with a 10 day war.
If you cannot see that, you are far more gone than I thought.

 

[Serpentine]

@amalakas: Don't argue with this guy,atatwolf , we have done it in the past and you will regret that at the end.He is a supernationalist grey wolf who wants to attack every single country around Turkey, one day it's Iran, then Iraq, then Syria and now Greece.Of course he does all the attacks in his dreams.

You better choose other Turkish members to argue with,there are certainly much more reasonable ones among them,but this guy, we have all gone that way,you won't get anything out of it.

 

[Oublious]

Greec wil sell the islands ahaahah. I think we can take one by one the islands. They will scream but nobody wil hear. They have first pay the money they steal.

 

[mehmeTcc]

@amalakas
You must be so naive to believe that Turks will stay calm and won't do a shvt.
"
These kind of news will increase in the following years. Not because of provocations of Turkey, but because of the spread of internet (and knowledge) I mean, you can find hot-headed people almost in every country who has a Turkic minority. There was a Kazan Tatar I met with in Youtube, the guys was delusional with Turkic Unity, he knew every single poem Atsız wrote. There must be similar guys in Greek part of Thrace too, people learns about their Turkish ancestors and fascinates about their history.

 

[LegionnairE]

First of all we need to acknowledge that Turkey has exercised a 12 mile extension to her territorial waters in the Black Sea and eastern med since 1964. Double standards it seems here.
Second, 12 miles is not necessarily crucial to Greece. The Aegean is a unique archipelago. 12 nm waters would mean that shipping lanes would be affected not just for Turkey but for everyone. Greece was very careful to preserve her sovereign right by declaring:


this translates to: "the time and place of exercising the rights in question and without this implying in the least the waiving on behalf of Greece of these rights, is a matter stemming of Greece's national strategic planning"

and thus maintaining the sovereign right, without extending the waters. That is mainly to keep the current shipping status quo intact.

Quite frankly in this declaration, I don't see anything meriting a casus belli. Do you?

So Greece just doesn't want her territorial waters to interrupt international shipping, how thoughtful. Reality is that you know that executing 12nm territorial waters isn't worth going to war with Turkey.

This is not a unilateral move by Greece. These are in article 2, ?.2321/1995 of the international treaty. Turkey hasn't signed this treaty. However this was not a treaty created nor planned nor implemented by Greece. It has hundreds of participants and it was sanctioned by someone else. We didn't make the rules to this game. Others did.

Greece says they aren't waiving from their right they just won't practice it at least not untill the casus belli is officially revoked. Best i can hope for is to reach some kind of compromise. If Greece keeps insisting on "International law" -Turkey regards the LoS convention as a res inter alios acta btw- We may never reach a middle ground.

So to answer you question simply. Crucial because if one doesn't exercise their sovereign rights then they are waiving them and someone is going to take advantage of them.

This is absurd. Take advantage of what? You have all the islands in Aegean except two. What is left there to take advantage of? Certainly we can resolve this by preserving both sides' economical rights.

Besides I already mentioned. If turkey has psychological issues as a political animal with the 12 mile waters, then it should join the EU.
Italy has practically no borders with Greece. Turkey could too..

EU isn't exactly waiting for Turkey with open arms. As long as Germany and France keep working against it Turkey will never join EU. So far only country that supports Turkey's membership is UK

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China should support Greece since we are both deluded

And I like Greece, an wonderful ancient civilization with great contribution to the world development.



Greece may be in economic trouble, but their GDP per capita is still two times more than yours. What help can you give to them?

Having a larger GDP per capita doesn't mean a jacksh!t, the modern Turkey is indeed a much superior country over the modern Greece.

A lot of countries may have very high GDP per capita, yet technologically they are still remaining in the stone age era.

BTW, i think we should remain neutral in the border conflict issues between Greece and Turkey.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

EU isn't exactly waiting for Turkey with open arms. As long as Germany and France keep working against it Turkey will never join EU. So far only country that supports Turkey's membership is UK

For us, we see nothing wrong with Turkey joining EU.

But for the European continental powers like France and Germany, they don't like Muslims, so they want to keep you stay away from Europe.

As for UK, they are just a trojan horse implanted by Uncle Sam within EU, they wanna see the continental Europeans fight against Muslims, so no one could ever challenge the hegemony of the Anglo-Saxon society.

 

[amalakas]

So Greece just doesn't want her territorial waters to interrupt international shipping, how thoughtful. Reality is that you know that executing 12nm territorial waters isn't worth going to war with Turkey.

No, first Greece signed the treaty and a considerable amount of time later, Turkey brought the casus belli on the table. Greece did not extend the waters in the time between. It wasn't gunboat diplomacy that prevented that in the meantime.

Greece says they aren't waiving from their right they just won't practice it at least not untill the casus belli is officially revoked. Best i can hope for is to reach some kind of compromise. If Greece keeps insisting on "International law" -Turkey regards the LoS convention as a res inter alios acta btw- We may never reach a middle ground.

Turkish politicians have to much to lose, in terms of face with a compromise. As I mentioned in a previous post, Greece holds the legal better hand in this poker table, but is also in a hard position because the geography of the Aegean is such, that a full exercise of Greece's rights restricts Turkey. Hence the middle line solution was proposed, but rejected by consecutive Turkish governments. I don't know the reasons for that.

This is absurd. Take advantage of what? You have all the islands in Aegean except two. What is left there to take advantage of? Certainly we can resolve this by preserving both sides' economical rights.

It is evident that Turkish policy for the Aegean is the establishment of more and more disputed islets (I mean really, some of them are literally just rocks, a goat can't stand on) in order to a) not provoke anyone by disputing populated Greek soil and b) achieving the goal of driving the notion of grey zones in the Aegean in order to carve out some territory in the archipelago that the 12 mile extension would leave Turkey completely unaffected.

EU isn't exactly waiting for Turkey with open arms. As long as Germany and France keep working against it Turkey will never join EU. So far only country that supports Turkey's membership is UK

I wouldn't want to comment on that. Greece has done nothing but support the Turkish joining in the EU. We have a good deal of benefits from such an event.

 

[atatwolf]

Obviously this amalakas guy is going to cry until he gets what he wants. The truth is though it will never happen!

Turkey will never jeopardise its security and hand over the whole Aegean to some untrustworthy Greeks. This has nothing to do with nationalism or Grey wolf (I'm not Grey wolf), or anything else.

Greece doesn't have any leg to stand on because Turkey didn't sign 12 mile treaty nor will it. Greece expanded its border with force, the same way the borders of Greece can shrink with the exact same violence Greece used when pursuing its expansionist policies.

I already said it before, Turkey will never hand over those precious waters, Aegean is Turkish sea and so will it remain. Of course, without war, Greeks will never have those waters but let's say they will, Turkey will pursue an economic warfare against Greece. We will sign a pact with Albania, Bulgaria, Kosovo to isolate and block the borders until Greece gives in. Basically the same approach we take with Armenia.

 

[TurAr]

Greece has done nothing but support the Turkish joining in the EU. We have a good deal of benefits from such an event.

Is that so? I quit counting who is in favor of Turkey's membership and who is not long ago since it is never going to happen and no body cares it in Turkey anymore... But i'm wondering, how did Greece support Turkey's membership and what kind of benefits are you talking about?