Gravitational waves announcement: Scientists confirm detection of ripples in spacetime

[Levina]

come on, i didn't mean to irritate you... i was simply trying to bring calm to a thread where people were jumping only because some american government institution made a announcement and which was replicated by jumping jacks in universities elsewhere

fine.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

with reference to the article and the vid above i have these points :

1. i don't believe in the existence of "space-time" and other such stuff... they are just human mathematical constructs that have no validity in nature... these particular people talk of "gravitational ripples" taking for granted the existence of "space-time".

2. could the so-called gravitational ripples simply be some kind of gas molecule electrical effect that origined in the unification of the two black holes??

3. is einstein always right??

4. the "listening to universe" thing would simply be attaching a speaker to the photometer assembly and the speaker will simply produce sound based on variation of the electrical input and we interpret this on our terms... this has been done before with the sun and with the earth's rotation i think and also i think with the seti project.

5. most americans are so bad with analogies... i couldn't understand his talk of using ligo to measure distance between the sun and the next star system ( alpha centauri system ).

6. time machine?? really??



no, a collision of two black holes... he says each was of 150 kilometer diameter.

as for big bang, no one knows of its form... it is all guesses, as far as i know.

1. space-time is indeed a mathematical construct but it does accurately describe geometric deformations in closest-path distance in presence of a gravitational potential gradient. It is easier to talk about space time bending to general audiences.

2. no because there is no way for a gas even 5 meters away in vacuum to influence another gas through a pressure field. if the gas is being electrically pumped it can excite light emission or even lasing but it is almost certain that no astronomical sources display optical lasing.

3. to the limit of experimental error he has not yet been shown wrong.

4. the detection principle is not a direct optical measurement. note that the instrument is completely enclosed.

5. LIGO can be used to measure distances.

6. not time machine.

 

[sohail.ishaque]

with reference to the article and the vid above i have these points :

1. i don't believe in the existence of "space-time" and other such stuff... they are just human mathematical constructs that have no validity in nature... these particular people talk of "gravitational ripples" taking for granted the existence of "space-time".

2. could the so-called gravitational ripples simply be some kind of gas molecule electrical effect that origined in the unification of the two black holes??

3. is einstein always right??

4. the "listening to universe" thing would simply be attaching a speaker to the photometer assembly and the speaker will simply produce sound based on variation of the electrical input and we interpret this on our terms... this has been done before with the sun and with the earth's rotation i think and also i think with the seti project.

5. most americans are so bad with analogies... i couldn't understand his talk of using ligo to measure distance between the sun and the next star system ( alpha centauri system ).

6. time machine?? really??



no, a collision of two black holes... he says each was of 150 kilometer diameter.

as for big bang, no one knows of its form... it is all guesses, as far as i know.

these things r proven and alot of current things are working using the same principles.. the most common example is GPS, that works using the theory or relativity.. and it wasn't possible without this theory being true..

 

[jamahir]

1. space-time is indeed a mathematical construct but it does accurately describe geometric deformations in closest-path distance in presence of a gravitational potential gradient. It is easier to talk about space time bending to general audiences.

hmm, that will take time for me to understand.

2. no because there is no way for a gas even 5 meters away in vacuum to influence another gas through a pressure field. if the gas is being electrically pumped it can excite light emission or even lasing but it is almost certain that no astronomical sources display optical lasing.

how do you mean "electrically pumped"??

sure, earth's atmosphere would stop any space gas field from directly affecting any gas-filled instrument at sea-level but i was talking about some indirect affect where the space gas field has arrived now in earth orbit from that binary black hole unification in the past, and that gas field generates some electrical activity... i am just guessing.

and your point is i suppose support by the earthly phenomenon of sea waves being affected by moon gravity.

oh well, stuff to be researched more and through simple deductions.

4. the detection principle is not a direct optical measurement. note that the instrument is completely enclosed.

i see.

but i based my point of the fellow's mentioning of photometer ( the vid in page 1 )

5. LIGO can be used to measure distances.

ah... must read up on ligo then.

but i was simply making a observation that americans generally are bad at analogies... they confuse more than they explain.

 

[guest11]

LIGO-India

LIGO-India is a proposed advanced gravitational-wave observatory to be located in India as part of the worldwide network, whose concept proposal is now under active consideration in India and the USA. LIGO-India is envisaged as a collaborative project between a consortium of Indian research institutions and the LIGO Laboratory in USA, along with its international partners.

IndIGO | LIGO-India

___________________________________________________________

I sincerely hope that this project goes forward.

On topic: Congratulations to the LIGO team.

 

[paritosh]

quantum physics is another magical field like "space-time".



we know that light exists and light can be employed, whether for projecting images ( cinema ) or for cutting up metal ( laser ) or for propelling space-craft ( light sail )... similarly, since you spoke about people having proof of gravitational waves or what the article calls gravitational ripples, i was wondering that just like light can be employed, why couldn't gravitational waves be employed in various things including vehicle propulsion??

or is it that these so-called astronomers simply are preaching mathematics rather than reality??

You seem hyper-skeptical of possibly the biggest find in astrophysics in our life times.
Concepts are understood first and then applied or "employed" as you put it.
The people studying diffraction and photo-emission were not working to build solar sails, it came as a result of the understanding of the quanta of energy each photon carries.
Mathematics is the only reality worth pursuing, rest is all man-made fables like religion.

 

[jamahir]

these things r proven and alot of current things are working using the same principles.. the most common example is GPS, that works using the theory or relativity.. and it wasn't possible without this theory being true..

come on, we are getting into magic territory here... if you read this[1] article about gps and bring it down to its simplest explanation, its about something called trilateration that must be maintained despite the satellites moving at 14,000 kms per hour.

the article also talks about "time dilation"... for things related to these magical effects of time, until someone creates a time machine and explains the construction in simple terms i am not going to believe in any of this phd stuff.

now, as a simple analogy, the "international space station" moves at approx 27,000 kms per hour stationed constantly above earth at 400 kms altitude or so... now have the cosmonauts in iss ever observe strange time-related phenomenon in manner of some sci-fi film??


---

[1] GPS and Relativity

 

[prashantazazel]

@jamahir

The galaxies outside of our own are moving away from us, and the ones that are farthest away are moving the fastest. This means that no matter what galaxy you happen to be in, all the other galaxies are moving away from you.

However, the galaxies are not moving through space, they are moving in space, because space is also moving. In other words, the universe has no center; everything is moving away from everything else. If you imagine a grid of space with a galaxy every million light years or so, after enough time passes this grid will stretch out so that the galaxies are spread to every two million light years, and so on, possibly into infinity.

@jamahir- you should also read about red shift / blue shift and the Doppler effect. Quite interesting, and you will lose some of your doubts.

 

[Neutron]

I hope some day man will enter into the zone where time and space curve converge.......Do we need to create negative energy for this?

 

[paritosh]

1. space-time is indeed a mathematical construct but it does accurately describe geometric deformations in closest-path distance in presence of a gravitational potential gradient. It is easier to talk about space time bending to general audiences.

2. no because there is no way for a gas even 5 meters away in vacuum to influence another gas through a pressure field. if the gas is being electrically pumped it can excite light emission or even lasing but it is almost certain that no astronomical sources display optical lasing.

3. to the limit of experimental error he has not yet been shown wrong.

4. the detection principle is not a direct optical measurement. note that the instrument is completely enclosed.

5. LIGO can be used to measure distances.

6. not time machine.

Love your analysis!

To add on to point #2, had it been any other particle's effect, it would have gotten filtered out as the observations devices are deep underground to have the combined combing effect of the atmosphere and the dense lithosphere weed out "heavier" particles

 

[jamahir]

You seem hyper-skeptical of possibly the biggest find in astrophysics in our life times.
Concepts are understood first and then applied or "employed" as you put it.
The people studying diffraction and photo-emission were not working to build solar sails, it came as a result of the understanding of the quanta of energy each photon carries.

nevertheless, all this decades of glassy-eyed talk about "space-time" and a century of glass-eyed talk of "gravity waves" hasn't resulted in any machine that employs either of them.

Mathematics is the only reality worth pursuing, rest is all man-made fables like religion.

do sparrows know to multiply 4x28??

@jamahir

The galaxies outside of our own are moving away from us, and the ones that are farthest away are moving the fastest. This means that no matter what galaxy you happen to be in, all the other galaxies are moving away from you.

However, the galaxies are not moving through space, they are moving in space, because space is also moving. In other words, the universe has no center; everything is moving away from everything else. If you imagine a grid of space with a galaxy every million light years or so, after enough time passes this grid will stretch out so that the galaxies are spread to every two million light years, and so on, possibly into infinity.

is this in reply to my post at post# 16??

@jamahir- you should also read about red shift / blue shift and the Doppler effect. Quite interesting, and you will lose some of your doubts.

okay.

I hope some day man will enter into the zone where time and space curve converge.......Do we need to create negative energy for this?

oh boy.

 

[Neutron]

@jamahir

The galaxies outside of our own are moving away from us, and the ones that are farthest away are moving the fastest. This means that no matter what galaxy you happen to be in, all the other galaxies are moving away from you.

However, the galaxies are not moving through space, they are moving in space, because space is also moving. In other words, the universe has no center; everything is moving away from everything else. If you imagine a grid of space with a galaxy every million light years or so, after enough time passes this grid will stretch out so that the galaxies are spread to every two million light years, and so on, possibly into infinity.

@jamahir- you should also read about red shift / blue shift and the Doppler effect. Quite interesting, and you will lose some of your doubts.

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSEE in the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven," as stated in the verse above, is used in various places in the Qur'an. It is referring to space and the wider universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning, stating that the universe "expands." The Arabic word "moosiaaoona" in the term "inna lamoosiaaoona," translated into English as "it is We Who are steadily expanding it", comes from the verb "evsea," meaning "to expand." The prefix "la" emphasises the following name or title and adds a sense of "to a great extent." This expression therefore means "We expand the sky or the universe to a great extent." This is the very conclusion that science has reached today. Until the dawn of the 20th century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time." However, modern research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning and that it constantly "expands."At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.From the moment of the Big Bang, the universe has been constantly expanding at a great speed. Scientists compare the expanding universe to the surface of a balloon that is inflated.This notion was confirmed by the use of observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. This discovery is regarded as one of the greatest in the history of astronomy. During these observations, Hubble established that the stars emit a light that turns redder according to their distance. That is because according to the known laws of physics, light heading towards a point of observation turns violet, and light moving away from that point assumes a more reddish hue. During his observations, Hubble noted a tendency towards the colour red in the light emitted by stars. In short, the stars were moving further and further away, all the time. The stars and galaxies were not only moving away from us, but also from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding.In order to gain a clearer understanding of this, let us imagine the universe to be the surface of a balloon being inflated. In the same way that the more the balloon is inflated, the further away the points on its surface move from one another, celestial bodies also move away from one another as the universe expands. This was theoretically discovered by Albert Einstein, regarded as one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century. However, in order to avoid violating the "static universe model" that was generally accepted at that time, Einstein laid that discovery aside. He would later describe this as the greatest blunder of his life. 2This fact was explained in the Qur'an in a time when telescopes and similar technological advancements were not even close to being invented. This is because the Qur'an is the Word of Allah: the Creator and Ruler of the entire universe.

 

[911]

a simple set questions or points : so according to our phd'ed astronomers, the universe's elements ( galaxies, worlds, stars etc ) are flying away hither-thither from their place of creation or coalescing... flying away to somewhere, and somehow without interference and collisions... so the entire sol solar system is flying away in one piece... what about the extremeties of the universe?? where will the elements go?? will they dash against a wall?? in fact, what are the extremeties of the universe??

No one really knows where universe ends. So who knows.....

and what do you mean by "how can space expand if space-time has not some fabric like concept to it"?? space is largely vacuum with molecular elements and small gases in some places and dust and rocks and stars and large nebular gases and so on.

Dark energy, which is ovserved only on paper, is the surplus amount of energy which is causing expansion.

now, as a simple analogy, the "international space station" moves at approx 27,000 kms per hour stationed constantly above earth at 400 kms altitude or so... now have the cosmonauts in iss ever observe strange time-related phenomenon in manner of some sci-fi film??

They do but its very minute.

 

[Nilgiri]

Thanks for the tag though i did not receive any notification.

I have been getting this sometimes too. Once BDforever was really offended by it

 

[911]

THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSEE in the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

Earth might have been their universe, if you know what i mean.