Government appeases religious parties on blasphemy law

[T-Faz]

1. You ask questions, yet refuse to accept answers when given to you.

Maybe I am not convinced with the answer given to me.

2. You ask for a road map to progress as inspired by Islam and when it is given to you, you escape by stating you ll read it when you have time.

I did read it but it did not seem practical and I had already stated that in my argument which you said you will answer once I have read all the sourced references.

3. You claim youself to be a Kafir (if you are a Kafir why not keep your kufr to yourself and not engage in discussions about Islam then? What is it to you? You are definitely not the majority in Pakistan... why are you so agitated about what Muslims want and what they dont want in their country... and most importantly why do you want to impose your ideas upon the majority of the people of Pakistan?

Kufr is unbelief, I have unbelief in the system of Mullah, not Islam. As the other gentlemen said, secularism is Godlessness, then by his definition, I am a kafir. That is what I meant when I said wrote that statement.

You will notice that there is great commotion within the people, they are unsure of the future and their chosen path of extremism has been a sour one. In a mater of time, the people will come to their senses and will strive to get the Pakistan they once had.

I am not imposing my views, I am merely being factual.

4. You think that people who live in the west should be completely secular and have no opposition to secularism otherwise they are hypocrites and yet you yourself live in a country of Muslims and oppose all notions of Islam and then try to hide behind oh I was born here excuse... what about a Muslim who was born in the west? Why do you have such double standards that when you have nothing left to discuss you resort to name calling and insulting other members?

i never stated that people who reside in the west should be completely secular, all I said is do not insult what is the norm in your country of residence. Similarly, US a secular nation has many deeply religious dwellers who do not impose their violent interpretation on the state.

As for name calling, that Farooq guy in his first reply starting insulting me by stating that I am Anti-Islam. That warrants a ban but I decided to counter his views by treating like with like.

Insult those who insult you, respect those who respect you.

I think that these are good enough reasons to avoid discussion with you... You are so emotional in your rants its obvious for readers here... dont get me wrong... I actually enjoyed discussing with you and liked you for your curiosity and thinking... but anyone can see that a discussion with you is basically going nowhere except you creating a tense environment here in all discussions that have to do with Islam...

Isn't that the whole point of this forum, you will always find a challenging individual who tests your knowledge and experience by opposing your core ideals.

I am doing just that, I am not convinced by the arguments put forward. I do agree that had there been an example of a successful Islamic state which Pakistan could follow, I would be for it.

But so far, I have only encountered theories of difference, not betterment.

and to think of it... You are a moderator on this forum... what a shame...

Insult and attack. You know how it is, a little amount of money transfered and you are mod in a matter of seconds.

 

[T-Faz]

I am convinced after reading......mullah's are on RAW payroll and sent to destabilise pakistan with their illiterate rants. And goons like some on this thread blindly follow them.
Hell, i am going to get that german citizenship.

Not Raw, CIA.

Pakistan’s current constitution does not represent the thinking of its founders. Terms like ‘Islamic Ideology’ and ‘Nazaria-i-Pakistan’ were coined by the Jamaat-i-Islami whose rise was supported by the long standing official policy of the US to encourage religious extremism in the Muslim world to prevent the rise of anti-imperialist nationalist leaders. The Jaamat had close ties with Said Ramadan (de facto head of the Akhwanul Muslimeen or the Muslim Brotherhood and son-in-law of its founder Hassan al Banna) who worked with the CIA as it plotted against Gamal Abdul Nasser. The Jamaat’s chief Mian Tufail Muhammad’s nephew was Ziaul Haq, and both worked to further US interests in Pakistan and the region. The US supported and financed the so-called fundamentalist groups for decades [refer: The Devil’s Game by Robert Dreyfus] and continues to do so because these groups are considered a buffer against the potential threat of Russia and/or China.

A nation in denial – The Express Tribune

I was just watching Geo and all these industrial workers were stating that they went to Bangladesh recently. They saw that people there were working without any hindrances, be it resources or political step ins.

They said that Pakistan had been reduced to a mere circus show and nothing is working, they would rather go to Secular Bangladesh.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Dont lie T Faz... You yourself said that you will read the material when you have time... Its been weeks since I posted the links for that material... Now you are claiming that you read it and thought it was not practical... To me it shows that you are not interested in a debate at all...

Anyway... since you have reclaimed your Islam by explaining what you meant when you said you were a Kafir... Perhaps you could explain to me what the following verses in the Quran mean...

"..and whoever does not rule with whatever Allah has revealed is an unbeliever (kaffir), oppressor (zalim), wrong doer (fasiq)" [Qur'an 5:44,45,47]

So much for you being a champion of Secularism and still remaining a Muslim on top of it all...

 

[Vassnti]

The love, respect and honor of The Beloved Prophet (Salalaho Alaihe Wasalam) is the core of our imaan and defines us as who we are as a nation and as a people.

Therefore, the greatest of all crimes is the insult of The Beloved Prophet (Salalaho Alaihe Wasalam), a crime which holds greater priority and attention in comparison to all other crimes.
.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654:

Narrated 'Umar:

I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

 

[Ticking Bomb]

"Congratulations" everyone. Religious goons have won again.

They always do, you just dont learn, anyway good news.

 

[unicorn]

"Congratulations" everyone. Religious goons have won again.

Whats your point of concern law or its judgement?

 

[T-Faz]

Dont lie T Faz... You yourself said that you will read the material when you have time... Its been weeks since I posted the links for that material... Now you are claiming that you read it and thought it was not practical... To me it shows that you are not interested in a debate at all...

I did skim over them, I said I would read them properly later so that I am not wrong in my analysis and further discussion.

I have only read one of them, amongst all the other duties, it is hard to make time for such expansive documents.

Anyway... since you have reclaimed your Islam by explaining what you meant when you said you were a Kafir... Perhaps you could explain to me what the following verses in the Quran mean...

"..and whoever does not rule with whatever Allah has revealed is an unbeliever (kaffir), oppressor (zalim), wrong doer (fasiq)" [Qur'an 5:44,45,47]

In essence this verse denotes one thing, whoever does not follow the guidelines as Allah has revealed in the Quran, he is an unbeliever because he does not believe in the guideline of Allah.

Then the following verses follow "They are wrong-doers,” and in a third verse, “They are those who rebel.” This is clear distinction and levels prescribed according to what an individual does.

One who does not rule with Allah's guideline is an unbeliever, however those who believe in Allah's guidelines are believers but wrong doers and those who rebel.

So much for you being a champion of Secularism and still remaining a Muslim on top of it all...

Secularism is basically separation of religion and state, no where is it stated in the Quran that political Islam is a requirement for Muslims.

I am just promoting secular ideals for nation state called Pakistan because it is not and cannot be an Islamic state.

An Islamic state should encompass the whole Ummah under the Khilafat.

That certainly isn't Pakistan.

 

[Dance]

"Congratulations" everyone. Religious goons have won again.

This is going to keep happening unless people in Pakistan start getting educated or get a government sincere to Pakistan

 

[Ticking Bomb]

As Mohammed said (SAW), religion is simple, don't make it complicated.

When he himself did not punish those who cursed him on his face, what emotional interpretation are you using to propagate Blasphemy laws.

What propaganda, everything that does not conform to your views is propaganda.



Nonsense, you simply do not know what you are talking about or you cannot find it on Google. Isn't proselytizing a major component of Islam, shouldn't your knowledge be adequate in converting others.

Promoting secularism isn't and cannot be classified as staunch anti-Islamic agenda. But some think of anything and everything as a threat so I cannot be held responsible for their shortcomings.



Well it was all great (Late 50's and 60's) but extremists like Jamaat-e-Islami took over and wrecked the nation. We all know how emotional and coward like they are with their men.

Also, show respect when you are conversing, its much easier to blurt nonsense over the internet, in real life it would be a different matter.

But being in US has its own benefits.

And what Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharaf did didnt wrecked the nation.

And u r right its easier to blurt nonsence over the internet, than in real life.

And yes there r benefits being in US, you can loath Muhammad (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) but not Hitler, thats a great benefit.

 

[T-Faz]

And what Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharaf did didnt wrecked the nation.

And u r right its easier to blurt nonsence over the internet, than in real life.

And yes there r benefits being in US, you can loath Muhammad (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) but not Hitler, thats a great benefit.

Ayub made mistakes but he did fast tract pakistans progress.

Yayha funded JI to quell the Bengali parties, Zia was very close to JI, having many of their men in his cabinet who implemented laws and rules. Musharraf too had a coalition government with JI and they have been influential since the days of Zia.

JI and their supporters do blurt out a lot of nonsense online.

You last paragraph does not make any sense. Perhaps you should walk down New York dressed as Hitler to test your theory.

 

[black_magic pk]

This is going to keep happening unless people in Pakistan start getting educated or get a government sincere to Pakistan

im educated mashallah and i fully support the law

 

[Dance]

im educated mashallah and i fully support the law

Good for you

 

[greatsequence]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654:

Narrated 'Umar:

I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

The Prophet is preferable for the believers even to their own selves...

Quran-(33:6)

Narrated 'Abd Allah bin Hisham: 'We were with the Prophet
(SAAW) and he was holding the hand of 'Umar ibnu Al-Khattab
(RAA). 'Umar said to him, "O Allah's Messenger (SAAW)!
You are dearer to me than everything except my ownself."
Allah's Messenger (SAAW) said: "No, by Him in Whose Hand my
soul is, (you will not have complete Faith) untill I am
dearer to you than your ownself." Then 'Umar (RAA) said:
"However, now, by Allah, you are dearer to me than my
ownself." He (SAAW) then said: "Now, O 'Umar, (now you are
a believer)."

(Bukhari)

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

im educated mashallah and i fully support the law

assalam alaikum

i was born outside of pakistan and grew up there ( so no chance the mullah's polluted my mind) yes i also support this law LIKE U.

TARIQ

 

[greatsequence]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 654:

Narrated 'Umar:

I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

That simply means that Don't equate me (s.a.w) to God. Not that don't love me.