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Government appeases religious parties on blasphemy law

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The blasphemy law right now is abused to settle personal scores and being ridiculous cases against people. Remember the guy who threw a business card in the trash?

Sir, this argument can be applied to all laws. It's not the law itself, but the procedures which need to be reformed. For example, someone can be falsely accused of murder and be punished, so why single out this law?

Pakistan has a serious problem with underfunded and ineffective law enforcement. I would much prefer our limited resources go towards serious crimes like rape, child abuse, murder and terrorism. I am pretty sure Rasoolullah would prefer us to focus on these evils first.

The love, respect and honor of The Beloved Prophet (Salalaho Alaihe Wasalam) is the core of our imaan and defines us as who we are as a nation and as a people. Hence, there is and never will be anything that can ever compromise this belief.
Therefore, the greatest of all crimes is the insult of The Beloved Prophet (Salalaho Alaihe Wasalam), a crime which holds greater priority and attention in comparison to all other crimes.

Pakistan is not the guardian of Islam; nobody in the Muslim world looks to us as their savior.

It does not mean we abandon Islamic rules.


In fact, most Muslim countries have better relations with India than they do with Pakistan.

The relations are based on interests not ideology.


I am not saying for one second that we abandon Islam, but we have to realize that we will be able to do much more to defend Islam globally if we are a strong economic and cultural power. And we will never become one until we bring the mullahs under control.

Ulema are the necessity for Islamic rules and unity. To paint a broad brush on all Ulema is unjustified.
Currently, it's the clean shaven, shirt and tie wearers who are in charge and responsible for the state of this nation.

In order for us to become a great nation we need to decide who are. Are we an Islamic country or a secular country? If we become a true Islamic nation, success will be our destiny.
 
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"Congratulations" everyone. Religious goons have won again.:sick:

i dont understand one thing thats inspite of you selected people trying to make sure that the country becomes seular and religion be kicked out of the government why you dont pray that the government becomes more sincere to its public and corruption becomes less..

ohh yeah the religious hate is more important than any development...

why not land reforms, why not stricter follow of rules, but in your eyes blasphemy laws has damn more importance than any other!!!
 
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Thanks. I find religious talks boring but what is someone tries to preach religion to me over there and it turns into a theism vs atheism debate where I say god doesn't exists, religions are man made ideologies, such things are considered as insults ? I am not dumb enough to use foul language but I know enough scientific arguments to get me into trouble :D, do non-muslims have right to express. What is tolerance level of pakistanis(karachi) in that context.

Would I have right to disagree or just sit dumb and repeat No Comments.

Well i will rather ask you to avoid religious discussion altogether. If someone tries to convince you or try to drag you into religious discussion then ask him to change the topic straight away and refuse to respond if he doesn't give up. That's for your own personal safety. In Pakistan, you will find people of all types i.e conservative, liberal and moderate people but it's better to avoid religious discussion to any person because you never know that who you are talking to.;)
 
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i dont understand one thing thats inspite of you selected people trying to make sure that the country becomes seular and religion be kicked out of the government why you dont pray that the government becomes more sincere to its public and corruption becomes less..

ohh yeah the religious hate is more important than any development...

why not land reforms, why not stricter follow of rules, but in your eyes blasphemy laws has damn more importance than any other!!!

You are wrong. First of all i am not advocating here to remove religion from the state neither i am saying that Pakistan should become secular. Just because i am against blasphemy law, you branded me some sort of anti religious person. Secularism is not a bad thing and it is not against religion. However this is a separate discussion.

In my eyes, everything is important related to Pakistan. Be it economy, be it defence, be it land reforms and even if it means the protection of minorities. Everything is important and demands attention.

Strange that you are not perturbed by the power of religious mafia in our country who is keeping the whole country hostage. Rather you chose to shoot the messenger.
 
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you secularist who have been running the country for 60 years don't have a great track record

Since Bhutto, who was supposedly secular but made Islam the state religion and brought in religious laws, no leader has been secular in Pakistan.

Zia was an Islamist and that is evident from his rule.

Benazir kept religious laws and rules without challenging them, she and her party were never labelled as secularists.

Sharif was an Islamist, he even tried to make himself Ameer-ul-Momineen.

Musharraf within his first few years stated in the public domain that Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic state, albeit more UAE then Saudi Arabia.

As for Zardari and Pir Gillani, secular leaders?

When Pakistan was partially secular, it was a great nation, respected and progressive where all people had one identity and worked side by side.

I have noticed your dislike for all things secular, why exactly are you in USA then?
 
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Since Bhutto, who was supposedly secular but made Islam the state religion and brought in religious laws, no leader has been secular in Pakistan.

Zia was an Islamist and that is evident from his rule.

Benazir kept religious laws and rules without challenging them, she and her party were never labelled as secularists.

Sharif was an Islamist, he even tried to make himself Ameer-ul-Momineen.

Musharraf within his first few years stated in the public domain that Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic state, albeit more UAE then Saudi Arabia.

As for Zardari and Pir Gillani, secular leaders?

When Pakistan was partially secular, it was a great nation, respected and progressive where all people had one identity and worked side by side.

Finally! One of the MODs, champions of anti-Islamic secularism, has spoken! The answer to all your baseless arguments is that none of the leaders you mentioned above were sincere in bringing Islamic rule. They all played politics in their time to suit their political agenda, hence Islam was never brought into it's entirety.

I have noticed your dislike for all things secular, why exactly are you in USA.

I have noticed your dislike for all things Islamic, why exactly are you in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?
 
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Finally! One of the MODs, champions of anti-Islamic secularism, has spoken! The answer to all your baseless arguments is that none of the leaders you mentioned above were sincere in bringing Islamic rule. They all played politics in their time to suit their political agenda, hence Islam was never brought into it's entirety.

Secularism isn't anti Islamic, it's not anti religion. It's basic neutrality in the matter of religion whereby a secular identifier, be it an individual or state remains quiet on matters of religion.

As for my baseless arguments, they are simple and straight forward. If Islam is to be brought in it's entirety, what exactly is Islam in it's entirety?

Similarly, Zia and Sharif were very sincere in bringing in their version of Islam, the kind you might not necessarily agree with but it was according to them, Islam in it's entirety.

Some even consider the Taliban to be the true reflection of what an Islamic rule ought to be.

I have noticed your dislike for all things Islamic, why exactly are you in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan then?

I am a 'Kafir' born into the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, I didn't choose to be born here, it happened because it was Gods will.

Now that I am here and so has been my family since the time it wasn't an Islamic republic, we decided to put time and effort into it so that the country may achieve what a nation/state ought to.

Somewhere along the line, the country got heavily involved in religion and the end result is in front of you.

Here is a nice quote that most should try and understand.

”In order to be a Muslim by conviction and free choice, which is the only way one can be a Muslim, I need a secular state.” – Abdullahi An Naim
 
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Maybe the government took this step as a temproary measure to ensure peace prevails.
 
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XV​

OF OFFENCES RELATING TO RELIGION​

295. Injuring or defiling place of worship, with Intent to insult the religion of any class:
Whoever destroys, damages or defiles any place of worship, or any object held sacred by any class of persons with the intention of thereby insulting the religion of any class of persons or with the knowledge that any class of persons is likely to consider such destruction damage or defilement as an insult to their religion. shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years, or with fine, or with both.

106[
295-A. Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any class by insulting Its religion or religious beliefs:

Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the 'religious feelings of any class of the citizens of Pakistan, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations insults the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, or with fine, or with both.

] 106
107[
295-B. Defiling, etc., of Holy Qur'an:

Whoever wilfully defiles, damages or desecrates a copy of the Holy Qur'an or of an extract therefrom or uses it in any derogatory manner or for any unlawful purpose shall be punishable with imprisonment for life.

] 107
108[
295-C. Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:

Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.

] 108
296. Disturbing religious assembly:

Whoever voluntarily causes disturbance to any assembly lawfully engaged in the performance of religious worship, or religious ceremonies, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both.

297. Trespassing on burial places, etc.:

Whoever, with the intention of wounding the feelings of any person, or of insulting the religion of any person, or with the knowledge that the feelings of any person are likely to be wounded, or that the religion of any person is likely to be insulted thereby, commits any trespass in any place of worship or on any place of sculpture, or any place set apart for the performance of funeral rites or as a, depository for the remains of the dead, or offers any indignity to any human corpse or causes disturbance to any persons assembled for the performance of funeral ceremonies, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both.

298. Uttering words, etc., with deliberate intent to wound religious feelings:
Whoever, with the deliberate intention of wounding the religious feelings of any person, utters any word or makes any sound in the hearing of that person or makes any gesture in the sight of that person or places any object in the sight of that person, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year or with fine, or with both.

109[
298-A. Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of holy personages:

Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation, or by any imputation, innuendo or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of any wife (Ummul Mumineen), or members of the family (Ahle-bait), of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him), or any of the righteous Caliphs (Khulafa-e-Rashideen) or companions (Sahaaba) of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both.

] 109
110[
298-B. Misuse of epithets, descriptions and titles, etc., reserved for certain holy personages or places:

(1) Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name who by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation-
(a) refers to or addresses, any person, other than a Caliph or companion of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), as "Ameer-ul-Mumineen", "Khalifatul- Mumineen", Khalifa-tul-Muslimeen", "Sahaabi" or "Razi Allah Anho";
(b) refers to, or addresses, any person, other than a wife of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), as "Ummul-Mumineen";
(c) refers to, or addresses, any person, other than a member of the family "Ahle-bait" of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), as "Ahle-bait"; or
(d) refers to, or names, or calls, his place of worship a "Masjid";
shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, and shall also be liable to fine.

(2) Any person of the Qaudiani group or Lahori group (who call themselves "Ahmadis" or by any other name) who by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation refers to the mode or form of call to prayers followed by his faith as "Azan", or recites Azan as used by the Muslims, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, and shall also be liable to fine.


298-C. Person of Quadiani group, etc., calling himself a Muslim or preaching or propagating his faith:
Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name), who directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.

Pakistan Penal Code (Act XLV of 1860)

I found nothing bad in this law and this should be retained... If anyone have problems go educate your self a bit about Islam... and please mind it that this is Islamic republic of Pakistan not any secular state..
Secular states are very kind towards any one who insults any religion but we are not and InshaAllah we 'll not be like that in future as well... :cheers:
 
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Maybe the government took this step as a temproary measure to ensure peace prevails.
 
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Secularism isn't anti Islamic, it's not anti religion. It's basic neutrality in the matter of religion whereby a secular identifier, be it an individual or state remains quiet on matters of religion.

Secularism by it's very definition is anti-Islamic because it isn't Islamic

As for my baseless arguments, they are simple and straight forward. If Islam is to be brought in it's entirety, what exactly is Islam in it's entirety?

Read Islamic history


Similarly, Zia and Sharif were very sincere in bringing in their version of Islam, the kind you might not necessarily agree with but it was according to them, Islam in it's entirety.

Irrelevant argument. My sincerity is not proof of righteousness. My sincerity must be compatible with The Holy Qur'an & Hadees.


Some even consider the Taliban to be the true reflection of what an Islamic rule ought to be.

Does not matter what some, I or you consider. Please read above.

I am a 'Kafir' born into the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, I didn't choose to be born here, it happened because it was Gods will.

Thank you for clarifying

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

I found nothing bad in this law and this should be retained... If anyone have problems go educate your self a bit about Islam... and please mind it that this is Islamic republic of Pakistan not any secular state..
Secular states are very kind towards any one who insults any religion but we are not and InshaAllah we 'll not be like that in future as well... :cheers:

well said brother
 
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Secularism by it's very definition is anti-Islamic because it isn't Islamic

You are just emotionally ranting all over the forum with no substantial argument. I am trying to initiate a debate which is the natural course required on this forum but you seem to be limited in your knowledge and emotional with your ideas.

Can an Islamic State be Secular? | Pak Tea House

Read Islamic history

So I just read history, I asked a specific question and your inane reply is 'read history'. What will i achieve by reading history again, answer the question I am asking or do not bother to reply.

Irrelevant argument. My sincerity is not proof of righteousness. My sincerity must be compatible with The Holy Qur'an & Hadees.

How can a factual statement be irrelevant, first of all you have not shown any signs of sincerity, blabbering nonsense is not sincerity.

What exactly do you know about the The Holy Quran and Hadees that makes you think your path is the right one.

Does not matter what some, I or you consider. Please read above.

What?

Thank you for clarifying

Now let me state this too, I as a citizen of this country whose family has a long history within this region and members of high repute have the natural right to choose the path for this country.

Some illiterate Mullahs who opposed and cursed its creation have no damn right over this country.

They are the curse of this society and will be dealt with rightfully in due time.
 
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You are just emotionally ranting all over the forum with no substantial argument. I am trying to initiate a debate which is the natural course required on this forum but you seem to be limited in your knowledge and emotional with your ideas.

Can an Islamic State be Secular? | Pak Tea House

The honor of The Beloved Prophet (Salalaho Alaihi Wasalam) is an emotional issue. Something only a Muslim can understand. Also, please take your useless propaganda blog elsewhere.
Oh yes of course! Only those who don't agree with you have limited knowledge

So I just read history, I asked a specific question and your inane reply is 'read history'. What will i achieve by reading history again, answer the question I am asking or do not bother to reply.

Well. I don't have time to waste. Your a non-Muslims so there is no point of me trying to convince you from a reference that you don't believe in such as Quran and Hadees. Especially given your staunch anti-Islamic agenda on this forum.


Now let me state this too, I as a citizen of this country whose family has a long history within this region and members of high repute have the natural right to choose the path for this country.

is it the path to what we are seeing? well done!
 
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You are just emotionally ranting all over the forum with no substantial argument. I am trying to initiate a debate which is the natural course required on this forum but you seem to be limited in your knowledge and emotional with your ideas.

Can an Islamic State be Secular? | Pak Tea House



So I just read history, I asked a specific question and your inane reply is 'read history'. What will i achieve by reading history again, answer the question I am asking or do not bother to reply.



How can a factual statement be irrelevant, first of all you have not shown any signs of sincerity, blabbering nonsense is not sincerity.

What exactly do you know about the The Holy Quran and Hadees that makes you think your path is the right one.



What?



Now let me state this too, I as a citizen of this country whose family has a long history within this region and members of high repute have the natural right to choose the path for this country.

Some illiterate Mullahs who opposed and cursed its creation have no damn right over this country.

They are the curse of this society and will be dealt with rightfully in due time.

I don't know why people like you always target Mullahs and no other class in Pakistan ?? This clearly shows that your fight is with mullah and generally your comments are to degrade mullahs any religious figure... I said all this to prove that secularism is a competetion to Islam and your comments support my argument....

and if you agree that a secular state can be Islamic then why don't you support Islamic state??

According to you definition a secular state is the one in which all religions are treated with harmony and this is what Islam states so why not support Islamic state ??

there are many common things in any form government... one is that it will not go against it self.... Secular government is based on nationalism and it will not go against nation (the geographic nation).... Islamic state is based on Islam so it cannot go against Islam... (It can definitely go against muslims)....

not every one is treated equally in a secular government like I can give you a recent example , Adnan sami's property was seized in India because he does not hold the nationality of India..... Is this not discrimination ??

and Islamic state also provides certain facilities to Muslims only like secular state provides some facilities to her nationals only....
 
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The honor of The Beloved Prophet (Salalaho Alaihi Wasalam) is an emotional issue. Something only a Muslim can understand. Also, please take your useless propaganda blog elsewhere.
Oh yes of course! Only those who don't agree with you have limited knowledge

As Mohammed said (SAW), religion is simple, don't make it complicated.

When he himself did not punish those who cursed him on his face, what emotional interpretation are you using to propagate Blasphemy laws.

What propaganda, everything that does not conform to your views is propaganda.

Well. I don't have time to waste. Your a non-Muslims so there is no point of me trying to convince you from a reference that you don't believe in such as Quran and Hadees. Especially given your staunch anti-Islamic agenda on this forum.

Nonsense, you simply do not know what you are talking about or you cannot find it on Google. Isn't proselytizing a major component of Islam, shouldn't your knowledge be adequate in converting others.

Promoting secularism isn't and cannot be classified as staunch anti-Islamic agenda. But some think of anything and everything as a threat so I cannot be held responsible for their shortcomings.

is it the path to what we are seeing? well done!

Well it was all great (Late 50's and 60's) but extremists like Jamaat-e-Islami took over and wrecked the nation. We all know how emotional and coward like they are with their men.

Also, show respect when you are conversing, its much easier to blurt nonsense over the internet, in real life it would be a different matter.

But being in US has its own benefits.
 
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