Give & take : After KSA request Pak devising its own wish list

[wiseone2]

Than KSA will never support you. KSA doesn't want anyone to strike a balance between them and Iran, it's either them or nothing. You overestimate India's power and influence.

we are not striking a balance with Saudi Arabia and Iran. we do business with both of them
we do not owe the saudis anything like Pakistan does

 

[TankMan]

Isn't your parliament supporting KSA? Where is the criticism?

Not the whole parliament. Many politicians are criticizing it and a lot of the media is. Actually, a very big lot of the media, journalists, anchors and analysts are.

Sure, sure.... In the last post, it was a very Taliban defeated Soviets....

They played a big part in it, no doubt. Are you saying the Taliban didn't defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan?

Support indigenous rebellions elsewhere, curb them when it comes to suit you. I thought that was quite visible.

I asked which one because there are so many.

Of-course it isn't...when everyone here is busy justifying the intervention.

Right, so you say the intervention isn't justified. On what basis? The joke we call 'international law'? The UN? Like I said, it's as legitimate as it gets.

 

[Icarus]

Saudi Arabia, the biggest buyer of Al-Khalid tanks, which were jointly developed by Pakistan and China, would be offered more materials for sale, said the sources.

Saudia does not operate a single AK, or did I miss the memo whilst they procured the largest batch of the tank?

 

[That Guy]

we are not striking a balance with Saudi Arabia and Iran. we do business with both of them
we do not owe the saudis anything like Pakistan does

We're talking about hypothetical situations, in which case, you're overestimating India's power projection.

You underestimate India's power and influence.

We refused sanctions on Iran despite both KSA and USA asking us constantly to support it. We bought Iranian oil, we paid them money in billions despite the global banking channels being shut.

KSA alone is next to powerless(in terms of its influence directly or using via-media) in front of us. They have neither goodwill among Indians nor influence with India.


Whatever influence they have on account of being a large supplier of oil is also on the wane as we are diversifying out oil sources now - with purchasing energy even from US - contract inked and deliveries set to start in 2016.

India didn't refuse sanctions, it (much like Japan), was given a waiver. India has actually decreased it's reliance on Iranian oil as a direct result of sanctions. I agree, KSA can't do anything to India, which is why the KSA will never look to replace Pakistan with India.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Great post!
But if, as the OP says, Pakistan can influence GCC to expel Indian workers during a war situation between India-Pakistan then that is not likely scenario: The last full scale "war" happened in 1971 and even an old man like me was a child then--though I do remember some.

***IF--and a big IF--Pakistan can replace Indian workers with Pakistani and BD workers now then it is a big long term investment for Pakistan.***

Thanks much!
With that particular point; I was primarily sensitizing Pak policy wonks to see the quantum of wealth being shifted from GCC to India. That per se is a node in leverage matrix. GCC does not have to "expel" a few million Indians to help Pakistan. Pakistan can insist that for every Indian worker, a proportionate amount of Pakistanis be hired going forward-Match every dollar expated to India. Of course that implies Pakistan has that sort of Human Capital. Otherwise, better begin training/educational development programs. The "Iqama" for Paks can be streamlined with waiver of fees and preferential treatment within GCC, whilst Indian fees could be incrementally raised. Saudi already disallow non-believers in certain areas so a precedent exists.
Geopolitically it is not advisable to do this openly. However, implied threat of loss of livelihood of such a large number of her citizens for any democratic nation can deter that nation from undertaking an adverse & precipitous action. Of course there are limitations to such manœuvrés in real terms. I can tell you that Indians have agonized over such outcomes but have decided that Arabs do not have the guts to do it.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

There is...
All this for what...10000 Pakistani ground troops? You must be in a different world.
Let me tell...in the end of this whole episode, Pakistan will be the net looser. ...either way.

TMI? Oops.

My aim was to discuss a broadened template of talking points for Paks as they negotiate with their close ally. As it has been appreciated by them so I may not be in your world but I seem to have achieved my aim. "All this" as you put it, is not mere division strength Pak grunts marching into Aden; the overarching strategic conundrum for Pakistan has many facets:
1. How to help an ally like Saudi while letting them know that they have come up short with respect to Pakistani concerns.
2. Anticipate the profound shifts taking place in the Greater MidEast and take appropriate steps.
3. Keep her own national interests front & center.
4. Take a wider, unemotional view of her own neighborhood.
5. ....Oops I did it again! ....TMI (Ref:Ms Spears)
But seriously committing forces overseas is always a major decision fraught with risks and rewards. That is why big nations do it a lot! Albeit with very careful planning. Pakistan must ponder all the pros & cons and choose wisely. If they take deliberate measured steps they can minimize risks and maximize rewards. Thanks for prognosticating the outcome (net loser) but most of us in the western circles are interested in what the Paks will do next regardless.

I may add that the balance of power is shifting and Al Saud family has internal dynamics, economics, demographics and external challenges. They will be needing Pakistan more as time wears on.....stay tuned my Indian friend.

I am now going to go into my "different world" and try and have a far more consequential conversation with a few young ladies and sample some microbrews. Ciao!

 

[tsinga]

India didn't refuse sanctions, it (much like Japan), was given a waiver. India has actually decreased it's reliance on Iranian oil as a direct result of sanctions. I agree, KSA can't do anything to India, which is why the KSA will never look to replace Pakistan with India.

Let me put it this way - it was not for lack of trying on part of US that India continued to trade with Iran.
On your last statement, you are on the money.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

The last paragraph is the silliest !!!

Give and take: After Saudi requests, Pakistan devising its own wish-list - The Express Tribune

ISLAMABAD: After senior Saudi officials in Riyadh requested a high-powered Pakistani delegation both ‘material and manpower’ to tackle Houthi rebels attempting to gain control of Yemen, the government of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif is mulling over what to ask Saudi Arabia in return.

The request was made during a two-day visit that ended on April 1. Pakistan’s wish list would be shared with Saudi authorities in the next round of talks, sources privy to the development told The Express Tribune.

While the top civil-military leadership of Pakistan is said to have decided joining the regional alliance along with Turkey to support the Saudi-led Operation Decisive Storm, the Nawaz-led government is trying to work out how the country could benefit from the alliance.

Riyadh is said to have asked for Pakistani troops as well as fighter jets and navy vessels for logistic support. Though the Pakistani authorities have not turned down the request, they are weighing their options for fulfilling it, said the sources.

They said the government would seek the approval of parliament for dispatching troops, but it would not enter the regional alliance without Turkey.

On a day-long visit to Turkey on Friday as part of his consultations with the brotherly countries on the Yemen conflict, Nawaz and his Turkish counterpart Ahmet Davutoglu said they were willing to work together for a peaceful resolution of the crisis.

Sources said both the premiers also discussed the possible outcomes of their decision to join the Saudi-led military operation.

Saudi Arabia, the biggest buyer of Al-Khalid tanks, which were jointly developed by Pakistan and China, would be offered more materials for sale, said the sources. The Pakistan Air Force is also expected to negotiate a deal on combat aircraft JF-17 Thunder.

Regarding the Saudi request of gaining control of a swathe of land in Yemen and holding it until peace is restored in the country, the sources said the civil-military leadership has decided to join the military operation and not to take control of any single area.

Regarding the Special Services Group’s support to Saudi forces, the sources said the duration of their deployment would be for a short span, between two and three years, adding that if their services are required for a longer period of time, relevant conditions would be incorporated in the draft that Pakistan would put before the Saudi authorities.

About economic benefits for the country, the sources said the Pakistani authorities were interested in receiving sureties from Saudi Arabia at the forum of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) on some important issues. They said that if Pakistan joins the Saudi forces, then the GCC should ensure that when Pakistan feels threatened by India, then the GCC would not only slap restrictions on Indian employees working in the region but also support Pakistan on many fronts.

Published in The Express Tribune, April 6th, 2015.

In Pakistan everything has a price tag...even Armies and the country..