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(GCC VS IRAN) GI + AIR FORCE

Quite simply because they both have fairly fragile economies. The Sauds are at the greatest risk due to their centralised structure and reliance on a single source of income(although they are moving to tax the Hajj now to make up for their horrendous losses due to bad policies implemented to try and kill shale oil).

They will however, continue to wage massive diplomatic and proxy warfare in the babylonian basin.
That is why Iran and Saudis going to war(if they ever do, not counting proxies) against each other would be a win for Israel and allies.
They should just kiss and make up if you ask me. Like you said, their economies is fragile. They have too many mouths to feed without war, what do you think will happen when they actually start waring? Their Oil/Gas will not be there forever.
I just hope Turkey doesn't get dragged into this.
 
Iran has only ordered 4 batteries of the S-300; please do not try to exaggerate numbers. The deal is under the auspices of international agencies and well monitored.
Nobody has disclosed the type or quantity of the purchase:

https://www.rt.com/news/335207-s300-iran-delivery-chemezov/

Originally it was supposed to be 5 squadron (a squadron can be a battalion or just a unit depending on which army is using the term). Later the contract was renegotiated and the outcome was that "Iran can buy as many units as it wants.

So no one knows what type or how many Iran has acquired. But a reasonable assumption is that Iran needs much more than 4 batteries to cover It's air space. On the other hand they may want to fill the gaps with the Iranian made Bavar-373 system.

You can bet more than 4 batteries are waiting for invading jet fighters and given Iran's OTH radars, Iran won't be caught by surprise.
 
Quite simply because they both have fairly fragile economies. The Sauds are at the greatest risk due to their centralised structure and reliance on a single source of income(although they are moving to tax the Hajj now to make up for their horrendous losses due to bad policies implemented to try and kill shale oil).

They will however, continue to wage massive diplomatic and proxy warfare in the babylonian basin.

King Salman Cancels Umrah Visa Fees

Nobody has disclosed the type or quantity of the purchase:

https://www.rt.com/news/335207-s300-iran-delivery-chemezov/

Originally it was supposed to be 5 squadron (a squadron can be a battalion or just a unit depending on which army is using the term). Later the contract was renegotiated and the outcome was that "Iran can buy as many units as it wants.

So no one knows what type or how many Iran has acquired. But a reasonable assumption is that Iran needs much more than 4 batteries to cover It's air space. On the other hand they may want to fill the gaps with the Iranian made Bavar-373 system.

You can bet more than 4 batteries are waiting for invading jet fighters and given Iran's OTH radars, Iran won't be caught by surprise.

Iran is expected to get one of the latest versions of the air defense complex, the S-300PMU-2 Favorit, manufactured by Almaz-Antey.
 
Iran has only ordered 4 batteries of the S-300; please do not try to exaggerate numbers.
Please don't try to lecture me on something I have researched well enough. I assure you, as an Iranian, I am more learned in Iranian Defence affairs, just as you are more learned in Pakistani Defence affairs.

The S-300 is a long-range surface-to-air missile system, and can engage aircraft, cruise missiles and theater ballistic missiles. One S-300 battery usually consists of an engagement radar, a low-altitude radar, and up to eight transporter erector launchers (TEL) with four launch tubes each. Each tube carries one surface-to-air missile. A battalion comprises up to six batteries in addition to a command/fire and control post, as well as an extra target acquisition radar unit.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/russia-supplied-s-300-air-defense-battalion-to-iran/

As for the number of battalions ordered:

Iran plans to sign contract for Russian S-300 missiles next week

Iran will sign a contract with Russia next week to buy four S-300 surface-to-air missile systems, the Iranian defense minister said on Tuesday, bringing Tehran closer to acquiring an advanced air defense capability.

Russian state arms producer Almaz-Antey in June said it would supply Iran with a modernized version of the S-300, among the world's most capable air defense systems, once a commercial agreement was reached.

"The text of the contract is ready and our friends will go to Russia next week to sign the contract," Defense Minister Hossein Dehghan was quoted as saying by the Fars news agency.

Russia says it canceled a contract to deliver S-300s to Iran in 2010 under pressure from the West. But President Vladimir Putin lifted that self-imposed ban in April following an interim nuclear deal between Iran and world powers.

Tuesday's announcement came a day after Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif visited Moscow to discuss the civil war in Syria, in which Tehran and Moscow support President Bashar al-Assad. Western powers and most Arab countries have called for Assad to resign as part of a peace deal.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, one of the most vocal critics of last month's final nuclear deal between Iran and world powers, has expressed Israel's "dismay" at Russia's decision to supply the S-300s to Tehran.

Dehghan said Iran had initially planned to acquire three "battalions" of S-300 launchers, but had since increased its order to four.

He did not specify how many missile launchers would be in each battalion, a standard military grouping whose size can vary depending on nationality, equipment and role.

Pieter Wezeman, an arms expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), said each battalion was likely to be an independent unit comprising a radar system, control system, and an unknown number of launchers.


"With four battalions, they should be able to deploy missile systems in four different locations," he said.

The S-300, first deployed at the height of the Cold War in 1979, can engage multiple aircraft and ballistic missiles up to 300 km (186 miles) away.

Dehghan also said Iran was negotiating with Russia to buy fighter jets, in a likely attempt to upgrade its aging fleet of mostly U.S.-made jets for which it cannot obtain spare parts or upgrades due to long-standing hostility between the two countries. He did not provide further details.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-iran-arms-idUSKCN0QN11B20150818

That is how I get to 4 battalions. Each battalion consists of a maximum of 6 batteries, each of which each consists of a maximum of 8 launchers. Mathematically speaking this corresponds to up to 192 launchers.

@Arminkh

I also remember seeing a print screen of a SIPRI Arms Transfers Database (monitors global arms transfers) which also said this 4 battalions of PMU2, unfortunately I cannot find it now as the forum it was posted on is not longer working.
Iran is expected to get one of the latest versions of the air defense complex, the S-300PMU-2 Favorit

The "one of" is referring to the version, not the quantity of missiles delivered.
 
Please don't try to lecture me on something I have researched well enough. I assure you, as an Iranian, I am more learned in Iranian Defence affairs, just as you are more learned in Pakistani Defence affairs.



http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/russia-supplied-s-300-air-defense-battalion-to-iran/

As for the number of battalions ordered:

Iran plans to sign contract for Russian S-300 missiles next week

Iran will sign a contract with Russia next week to buy four S-300 surface-to-air missile systems, the Iranian defense minister said on Tuesday, bringing Tehran closer to acquiring an advanced air defense capability.

Russian state arms producer Almaz-Antey in June said it would supply Iran with a modernized version of the S-300, among the world's most capable air defense systems, once a commercial agreement was reached.

"The text of the contract is ready and our friends will go to Russia next week to sign the contract," Defense Minister Hossein Dehghan was quoted as saying by the Fars news agency.

Russia says it canceled a contract to deliver S-300s to Iran in 2010 under pressure from the West. But President Vladimir Putin lifted that self-imposed ban in April following an interim nuclear deal between Iran and world powers.

Tuesday's announcement came a day after Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif visited Moscow to discuss the civil war in Syria, in which Tehran and Moscow support President Bashar al-Assad. Western powers and most Arab countries have called for Assad to resign as part of a peace deal.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, one of the most vocal critics of last month's final nuclear deal between Iran and world powers, has expressed Israel's "dismay" at Russia's decision to supply the S-300s to Tehran.

Dehghan said Iran had initially planned to acquire three "battalions" of S-300 launchers, but had since increased its order to four.

He did not specify how many missile launchers would be in each battalion, a standard military grouping whose size can vary depending on nationality, equipment and role.

Pieter Wezeman, an arms expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), said each battalion was likely to be an independent unit comprising a radar system, control system, and an unknown number of launchers.


"With four battalions, they should be able to deploy missile systems in four different locations," he said.

The S-300, first deployed at the height of the Cold War in 1979, can engage multiple aircraft and ballistic missiles up to 300 km (186 miles) away.

Dehghan also said Iran was negotiating with Russia to buy fighter jets, in a likely attempt to upgrade its aging fleet of mostly U.S.-made jets for which it cannot obtain spare parts or upgrades due to long-standing hostility between the two countries. He did not provide further details.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-iran-arms-idUSKCN0QN11B20150818

That is how I get to 4 battalions. Each battalion consists of a maximum of 6 batteries, each of which each consists of a maximum of 8 launchers. Mathematically speaking this corresponds to up to 192 launchers.

@Arminkh

I also remember seeing a print screen of a SIPRI Arms Transfers Database (monitors global arms transfers) which also said this 4 battalions of PMU2, unfortunately I cannot find it now as the forum it was posted on is not longer working.


The "one of" is referring to the version, not the quantity of missiles delivered.

Your research is from the same source that I used, except that your definition of battalions and batteries is different to mine. I still would maintain that the purchase is NOT as huge as you think.

Each Battalion that is being reported is essentially the same definition as a battery in NATO terms. That means radar and fire control along with 8 missile launchers. That means a total of 4 possible locations where S-300 coverage can be provided using anywhere between 24-48 launchers or 96-192 missile available for use if theoretically operational readiness is at 100%.

Please do not try to lecture me on missile systems; I have spent far too long studying them.
 
except that your definition of battalions and batteries is different to mine
Its not my definition. It is the definition of the people that made the missiles.

Each Battalion that is being reported is essentially the same definition as a battery in NATO terms. That means radar and fire control along with 8 missile launchers. That means a total of 4 possible locations where S-300 coverage can be provided using anywhere between 24-48 launchers or 96-192 missile available for use if theoretically operational readiness is at 100%.

Please do not try to lecture me on missile systems; I have spent far too long studying them.
I'm sorry but again you are making fundamental mistakes here. Russia is not NATO. Russian structure is different to that of NATO.

Please read the source carefully, however much you have studied missiles, your level of knowledge is unknown to me.

I'm going to use the maximum values for simplicity. I am not implying these are the actual values.

1 Battery = 8 TELs

1 Battalion = 6 Batteries = 48 TELs

4 Battalions = 192 TELs

192 TELs = 768 Missiles
One S-300 battery usually consists of an engagement radar, a low-altitude radar, and up to eight transporter erector launchers (TEL) with four launch tubes each. Each tube carries one surface-to-air missile. A battalion comprises up to six batteries

I'm only using the data you yourself used and I assure you I double, triple, quadruple checked it. Please do not confuse the batteries and battalions, batteries are part of a battalion, they are not synonyms.

That is unless you are going to claim that Iran ordered 4 batteries (which seems small for such a large country). I've only seen sites refer to them as battalions.
 
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Its not my definition. It is the definition of the people that made the missiles.


I'm sorry but again you are making fundamental mistakes here. Russia is not NATO. Russian structure is different to that of NATO.

Please read the source carefully, however much you have studied missiles, your level of knowledge is unknown to me.

I'm going to use the maximum values for simplicity. I am not implying these are the actual values.

1 Battery = 8 TELs

1 Battalion = 6 Batteries = 48 TELs

4 Battalions = 192 TELs

192 TELs = 768 Missiles


I'm only using the data you yourself used and I assure you I double, triple, quadruple checked it. Please do not confuse the batteries and battalions, batteries are part of a battalion, they are not synonyms.

That is unless you are going to claim that Iran ordered 4 batteries (which seems small for such a large country). I've only seen sites refer to them as battalions.

Pieter Wezeman, an arms expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), said each battalion was likely to be an independent unit comprising a radar system, control system, and an unknown number of launchers.

"With four battalions, they should be able to deploy missile systems in four different locations," he said.


^ that statement from your own post pretty much ends all the maths(which in itself is flawed as it is counting missiles and not a deployed system with FCR and C2). 4 battalions are overkill for 4 locations. I will use the Russians as the example to end your own confusion regarding batteries and battalions. Yes, 4 Russian Battalion of systems have been delivered to Iran, but they are not to be confused by assuming that all batteries are complete firing systems.
A Battery is either 2 or 3 TELs or even 1.

In Russian Orbat, a SAM Battalion is made up of the following:
img355.gif


Clearly there are not 48 launchers per battalion as you claim, but generally 4 in the case of the SA-3 or at maximum 8 in the case of the S-300. You cannot cover only 4 locations with the improbable number of launchers and missiles you specify.

The bold bit you bring on battalion size is ONLY from Press TV sources or from this guy:
http://thediplomat.com/authors/franz-stefan-gady/

No other source is available to back that claim up.

I am eager to learn otherwise in a very objective manner if you can bring a reliable source in regarding Russian AD battalion size or exact number of missile launchers and associated systems sold to Iran.

If not, Ill have to agree to disagree with your assessment.
 
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@AmirPatriot this from AusPoewr what do you think.

A typical S-300PM/PMU1 battery comprises a 30N6E1 engagement radar, a 76N6 (76N6E export) low level early warning / acquisition radar and up to a maximum of eight 5P85S/5P85T (SE/TE export variant) TELs, each with four 48N6 rounds. A PVO battalion then combines up to six batteries, using a shared 64N6E acquisition radar, supported by a 54K6E command post. Both the TEL variants departed from earlier subtypes in that all TELs qualify as "smart" and can be independently addressed by the 30N6E1 battery radar via datalinks. The more compact electronics package saw the removal of the large cabin used with the S-300PS/PMU 5P85S/SU TEL.

6*8=48*4=192 missiles ready
Every battalion have 192.

Thats why big nations buy more battalions to cover bigger area.
 
I also want this Saudi Irani rivalry to come to an end. It is dividing and damaging Muslims alot but you can see for yourself here the Irani members are full of hatred against Saudi Arabia. They dont want peace so they will continue to bark against Saudia till they die and their children will also do the same without any success. the problem lies in Iran not Saudi Arabia.

I think the old Iraq-Iran war have left deep seeds of hate plus old rivalries which have failed to die out.

But for any pragmatic person they would say , the nations need to sit down on table and start with clean slate

However on global stage both nations set to lose tremendously in absence of a roadmap for normalized ties between two nations

Syrian refugee crisis is a good example how the world forgets or peaceful conventions and acords rather quick and fast.
 
Its not my definition. It is the definition of the people that made the missiles.


I'm sorry but again you are making fundamental mistakes here. Russia is not NATO. Russian structure is different to that of NATO.

Please read the source carefully, however much you have studied missiles, your level of knowledge is unknown to me.

I'm going to use the maximum values for simplicity. I am not implying these are the actual values.

1 Battery = 8 TELs

1 Battalion = 6 Batteries = 48 TELs

4 Battalions = 192 TELs

192 TELs = 768 Missiles


I'm only using the data you yourself used and I assure you I double, triple, quadruple checked it. Please do not confuse the batteries and battalions, batteries are part of a battalion, they are not synonyms.

That is unless you are going to claim that Iran ordered 4 batteries (which seems small for such a large country). I've only seen sites refer to them as battalions.


It means batteries
http://www.up-00.com/

S-300PMU1 cost 160 milion $
You order 5 which will cost 800 million $
With radars and missiles and logistics support it will cost over 1 bilion $

ANALYSIS
Most of Iran's older long-range systems are currently located around the central cities of Tehran, Esfahan, and Kashan, although there are S-200s and HQ-2s on the Gulf coast at Bushehr and Bandar Abbas.

These systems are being augmented by four S-300PMU-series systems that Russia started delivering earlier this year.
http://www.janes.com/article/61873/iranian-air-defence-to-cover-gulf
 
It means batteries

Under Iran's section in your print screen it shows battalions. The one on the left is for Algeria.
You order 5 which will cost 800 million $

That's the old 2007 S-300PMU1 order. Russia cancelled that and now there is the new order for the 4 S-300PMU2 battalions, which nobody knows the cost of.
4 battalions are overkill for 4 locations.
The way I see it is that each battalion would have these several batteries spread out over a large area, and in the event of a threat the central battalion command post would relay the information it garnered from the acquisition radar to the batteries. Of course, Iran's IADS would mean there can be a lot more data from a lot more sources going to that command post, which would mean a better picture of the situation. I'd think in the event of war the battalions would be moved to more threatened area.

4 battalions are overkill for 4 locations.
There is no such thing as overkill :devil:

Jokes aside, I don't think so. When you think this will be used to defend high value targets like the capital city Tehran, major military bases, and the nuclear program. Bearing in mind Iran got the S-300 to repel large and skilled forces like the US and Israeli Air Forces. Also considering that Iran probably didn't get the full 192 missiles.
which in itself is flawed as it is counting missiles and not a deployed system with FCR and C2
I am only using it as a measuring method. It avoids complication to just use those instead of everything, besides, then we have to actually define a system, which would be a battalion, since as @Malik Alashter shows with AusAirpower each battalion has just 1 acquisition shared radar between the up to 6 batteries.
I am eager to learn otherwise in a very objective manner if you can bring a reliable source in regarding Russian AD battalion

@Malik Alashter already brought a VERY reputable source in Australia Airpower. If you are not familiar with that site I suggest you pay a visit, they are outstanding.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-300PMU2-Favorit.html
 
Under Iran's section in your print screen it shows battalions. The one on the left is for Algeria.


That's the old 2007 S-300PMU1 order. Russia cancelled that and now there is the new order for the 4 S-300PMU2 battalions, which nobody knows the cost of.
The way I see it is that each battalion would have these several batteries spread out over a large area, and in the event of a threat the central battalion command post would relay the information it garnered from the acquisition radar to the batteries. Of course, Iran's IADS would mean there can be a lot more data from a lot more sources going to that command post, which would mean a better picture of the situation. I'd think in the event of war the battalions would be moved to more threatened area.


There is no such thing as overkill :devil:

Jokes aside, I don't think so. When you think this will be used to defend high value targets like the capital city Tehran, major military bases, and the nuclear program. Bearing in mind Iran got the S-300 to repel large and skilled forces like the US and Israeli Air Forces. Also considering that Iran probably didn't get the full 192 missiles.

I am only using it as a measuring method. It avoids complication to just use those instead of everything, besides, then we have to actually define a system, which would be a battalion, since as @Malik Alashter shows with AusAirpower each battalion has just 1 acquisition shared radar between the up to 6 batteries.


@Malik Alashter already brought a VERY reputable source in Australia Airpower. If you are not familiar with that site I suggest you pay a visit, they are outstanding.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-300PMU2-Favorit.html


Give me the source
 
Iran will plasma everything in suadi and certainly will turn it to 1000 BCE.

Plus millions of Iranians/ Shias soldiers are ready to take revenge of Ahlulbayt (PBUT) from filthy Umayyads and their children as hero Abu Muslim Khorasani and many other Iranian, Iraqi generals did in past.
 
Give me the source
And the old contract:

he contract, signed in 2006−2007, on supplying Iran with five S-300 PMU-1 air defense systems. This contract had a price tag of $800 million when it was signed. The failure to carry it out due to Moscow’s broad interpretation of the relevant UN Security Council resolutions prompted Iran to file a complaint totaling $4 billion with the International Court of Arbitration in Geneva against the Russian arms company Rosoboronexport.

http://www.iranreview.org/content/D...ntial-Consequences-of-Bartering-with-Iran.htm

It got cancelled and Iran ordered improved S-300PMU2 version last year (or maybe the year before)

http://thediplomat.com/2016/07/russia-delivers-first-missiles-for-irans-new-air-defense-system/

https://www.rt.com/news/351865-iran-s-300-missile-batch/

http://www.military-today.com/missiles/s300_pmu2.htm

http://defence-blog.com/news/iran-d...tems-around-nuclear-facilities-in-fordow.html

All of them, as well as many other sources, say Iran got the PMU2.
 

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