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Gaza-Israel Conflict | October 2023

Arrre baba, muaf kar do.🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

I never discussed justification or lack of it for killing anyone.

I just highlighted the “OPTICS” aspect of these killings.
Hamas had everything going for them to just attack the uniformed military personnel and take them hostage, thereby denying any negative optics and narrative to anyone.
Trying living in Gaza for 30 plus years and you would do a lot worse.
 
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Every thing fair in love and in war they targeted military installations but if civilians are come a cross in front of fire its not their mistakes

Give the the land of Israel to real settlers Palestinians problem solved

Whats wrong then Israel says and do the same?

Killing people during their music festival and picnic spot- can be called targeted on military installation?
 
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call me whatever you want. These people are fucked.

80 years of struggle, got fucked into the dirt by a 10 second video.

BUT BUT BUT Israel killed so many people
doesn't matter.

You will never recover from this
German_tourist_Israel2.jpg

Already recovered. Don't send European invaders to Muslim Lands. Visit then leave unless invited


I'm surprised they are crying for the Palestinians... wait a minute... they are not... crocodile tears... here is the real tearful picture...

Screenshot_20231009-140017.png
 
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Public opinion is really a product of official media policy. The majority of the public believes whatever they want them to believe.

Erdogan, I believe, is pro-Israel, so I’m sure the Turkish media is building pro-Israeli sentiment.

Until a couple of years ago Pakistani media used to be relatively free, in which case there would have been 90% support for Palestinians. But the traitor generals sold their sorry a$$es for a few dollars, overthrew the government, and throttled the media. So now I don’t know what they’re showing. I don’t watch the controlled Pakistani media.

It all depends on what you’re told. If you know both sides of the story then you can form a more correct opinion.
it's a very simplistic way to look at it

it's not that simple, there are other forces at play. For example, palestinians have agency, palestinian leader mahmud abbas supported south cyprus against TRNC, many such actions pushed Turkey away from Palestine. etc. etc.

And what media policy governs Twitter? You can just visit a few Turkish pages and see that pretty much %80 of people are against Hamas.

We're living in a different world now.
 
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Kashmir is in hand of real owner. thanks for your concern.

LOL Dude, your India got split in pieces. So much for Kashmir being in the right hands.

Yogi wants Sindh? 😅

WILLIAM HAGUE
Hamas has set a trap that Israel must avoid
new
Iranian-backed attacks are a desperate attempt to halt growing collaboration with Saudi Arabia and the UAE

William Hague
Monday October 09 2023, 5.00pm, The Times
Hamas rockets fired from Gaza City are intercepted by the Israeli Iron Dome defence missile system
Hamas rockets fired from Gaza City are intercepted by the Israeli Iron Dome defence missile system
EYAD BABA/AFP /GETTY IMAGES
How Hamas managed to launch a brutal terrorist offensive without any foreknowledge inside Israel’s formidable intelligence services will be the subject of inquiries and soul-searching for years to come. To pull off such a feat will have required absolute secrecy among a tiny leadership group, giving last-minute orders to their followers and working only by word of mouth. But it also needed complacency and distraction in Israel’s leadership.

The intense political divisions in Israel made these attacks opportune, and the approach of a deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia made them urgent. Mossad officers might be blamed for missing the signs but Prime Minister Netanyahu and his cabinet should have been on alert for something like this.

While the question of how this happened will be a preoccupation, it will also be vital to understand why it happened. Why launch an indiscriminate assault on a vastly superior military power? Why expose the two million Palestinians in the crowded space of Gaza to Israel inevitably trying to crush Hamas and restore order? Why, as well as murdering hundreds of defenceless young people at a rave, parade dead bodies as evidence of the atrocities?

• What the Hamas attacks in Israel mean for Binyamin Netanyahu

The answer is that their objective is uncontrolled rage. It is to make Israel lash out in a way that starts a conflagration. To start a war so intense that it spreads, igniting an explosion of violence in the West Bank and bringing in Hezbollah from Lebanon in the north, with Israel fighting on multiple fronts. To see so many Palestinians killed that the Israelis lose the moral high ground of defending themselves against mass murder. To use the fate of hostages, with maximum cruelty, to intensify a frenzy of hatred whenever that seems to be abating. To halt the creeping collaboration between Israel and Arab states. Essentially, to bring down the ceiling on the whole region, including themselves and the people for whom they claim they are fighting.

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The comparison many have made with 9/11 is valid, not only because the shock to Israelis that they are so vulnerable is akin to how Americans felt when the twin towers fell but also because the objective is the same: to wreck everything, to provoke overreach and misjudgments from an enraged enemy. It is not a strategy to make life better for Palestinians or to give them their own state. It is a howl of rage, an act of desperation by Hamas cheered on by an Iranian leadership who can see that the Middle East is moving quickly in a direction they do not like and are struggling to prevent.

Most western governments are stressing in their statements that Israel has the right to defend itself against terror. That is absolutely right. At the same time, they all know that it will require great wisdom on the part of Israel’s leaders to deliver a counterattack that rebuilds their country’s security, deters further attacks, kills the perpetrators and recovers most hostages without falling into the trap of doing what Hamas intended.

The Israelis have some of the most sophisticated armed forces in the world but will need an equally sophisticated political strategy to accompany them. Ultimately 9/11 led the West into Iraq, consuming our strength and dividing our politics, which most of us now recognise was a mistake. Israel will need to do better than that.

• Saudi Arabia seeks Palestinians’ support for Israel deal


Many other commentators stress that these events are a reminder of the case for a two-state solution — Israelis and Palestinians living side by side in sovereign states. But the cold reality is that the last chance for this has probably passed. In 2013, when John Kerry became the United States secretary of state, I was among many who urged him to throw himself at negotiating a two-state solution. It is to his immense credit that he did so. He talked with Netanyahu no fewer than 375 times, made 40 visits to Israel and 34 in one year to the Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas. No one could have tried harder. He failed because of Israel’s steady building of settlements on the West Bank and divided leadership among Palestinians. There was no trust then between the two sides and there is even less now.

Most of the world has given up on such a solution and that includes a great many Arabs. Capitals such as Abu Dhabi and Riyadh can see the global economy changing quickly. They are determined to be at the forefront of it, transforming their societies and linking up their huge wealth with innovation, high-tech security and, most recently, artificial intelligence. That means they want peace around them, to stay ahead of Iran and to co-operate with Israel. The Palestinian cause that was central to their foreign policy for decades is becoming just one of many concerns, to be balanced against other priorities. Much of the Middle East is moving on.

Evidence of that can be seen in the hundreds of thousands of Israeli tourists who have flocked to Dubai. Since the Abraham Accords brought normal relations between Israel and several Arab states, trade and technology links between them have boomed. The UAE looks set for $10 billion of bilateral trade with Israel by 2027. These two countries are working together on cybersecurity, defence systems, banking, healthcare, education and agriculture. An Emirati energy company owns a stake in Israel’s Tamar gas field.

In recent weeks, Saudi Arabia has come to the brink of joining the accords, opening the way to similar co-operation between Israel and the Arab world’s leading power. A few years ago, that would have been unthinkable — the nation whose king is Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques sending an ambassador to Israel and promoting trade and investment between them. Now, it has become an imminent prospect — and one that is of grave concern to an Iranian leadership which partly sustains a strategic rivalry with the Saudis by maintaining hatred of Israel.

ADVERTISEMENT

The shocking terror launched by Hamas has to be seen in this context: of a region that is shifting away from them and their patrons in Tehran. While they will have many motivations — loathing of Israel, antipathy to moderate Palestinians, the opportunity to spring a surprise — their predominant and immediate need is to bring chaos to a region that is progressing without them.

For now, they will have forestalled the Israel-Saudi deal. Whether they can trigger a wider war is in the balance. But in the longer term, if Israel can judge the right response, the forces driving a new geography of power in the Middle East are likely to prove more powerful than this terrible violence. It is no consolation to those caught up in it but nevertheless likely to be true — that this is no strategic masterstroke by Hamas, more a desperate move to fend off a future that is rapidly leaving them behind.

Most likely. Seems like Israelis fell for it.

I agree with other Bengali PDFer.
India has given a muted response for Hamas invasion just a tweet by PM.
India is still trying to walk a tight rope walk.
India has great relation with both Syria and Iran.
It's a war of European and Arabian Civilization.
Indian Chinese are avoiding this pit.

Of course. India votes against Israel at UN. You guys cheerlead on the Internet. The two don't add up. What is it going to be?
 
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Killing a woman in a party, dragging her dead body and claiming that she was a potential soldier?

That is your justification? Ok.
Lol. She was saved by the Palestinian resistance.

You have analysed too many aspects of world order in one para. They all deserve a separate threat for each one of them.

My point was just about the optics, that could have helped Hamas in creating a favourable narrative.

The attack was as daring or innovative as it could be done. No doubts about that.
Screenshot_20231008-210228.png
 
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WILLIAM HAGUE
Hamas has set a trap that Israel must avoid
new
Iranian-backed attacks are a desperate attempt to halt growing collaboration with Saudi Arabia and the UAE

William Hague
Monday October 09 2023, 5.00pm, The Times
Hamas rockets fired from Gaza City are intercepted by the Israeli Iron Dome defence missile system
Hamas rockets fired from Gaza City are intercepted by the Israeli Iron Dome defence missile system
EYAD BABA/AFP /GETTY IMAGES
How Hamas managed to launch a brutal terrorist offensive without any foreknowledge inside Israel’s formidable intelligence services will be the subject of inquiries and soul-searching for years to come. To pull off such a feat will have required absolute secrecy among a tiny leadership group, giving last-minute orders to their followers and working only by word of mouth. But it also needed complacency and distraction in Israel’s leadership.

The intense political divisions in Israel made these attacks opportune, and the approach of a deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia made them urgent. Mossad officers might be blamed for missing the signs but Prime Minister Netanyahu and his cabinet should have been on alert for something like this.

While the question of how this happened will be a preoccupation, it will also be vital to understand why it happened. Why launch an indiscriminate assault on a vastly superior military power? Why expose the two million Palestinians in the crowded space of Gaza to Israel inevitably trying to crush Hamas and restore order? Why, as well as murdering hundreds of defenceless young people at a rave, parade dead bodies as evidence of the atrocities?

• What the Hamas attacks in Israel mean for Binyamin Netanyahu

The answer is that their objective is uncontrolled rage. It is to make Israel lash out in a way that starts a conflagration. To start a war so intense that it spreads, igniting an explosion of violence in the West Bank and bringing in Hezbollah from Lebanon in the north, with Israel fighting on multiple fronts. To see so many Palestinians killed that the Israelis lose the moral high ground of defending themselves against mass murder. To use the fate of hostages, with maximum cruelty, to intensify a frenzy of hatred whenever that seems to be abating. To halt the creeping collaboration between Israel and Arab states. Essentially, to bring down the ceiling on the whole region, including themselves and the people for whom they claim they are fighting.

ADVERTISEMENT

The comparison many have made with 9/11 is valid, not only because the shock to Israelis that they are so vulnerable is akin to how Americans felt when the twin towers fell but also because the objective is the same: to wreck everything, to provoke overreach and misjudgments from an enraged enemy. It is not a strategy to make life better for Palestinians or to give them their own state. It is a howl of rage, an act of desperation by Hamas cheered on by an Iranian leadership who can see that the Middle East is moving quickly in a direction they do not like and are struggling to prevent.

Most western governments are stressing in their statements that Israel has the right to defend itself against terror. That is absolutely right. At the same time, they all know that it will require great wisdom on the part of Israel’s leaders to deliver a counterattack that rebuilds their country’s security, deters further attacks, kills the perpetrators and recovers most hostages without falling into the trap of doing what Hamas intended.

The Israelis have some of the most sophisticated armed forces in the world but will need an equally sophisticated political strategy to accompany them. Ultimately 9/11 led the West into Iraq, consuming our strength and dividing our politics, which most of us now recognise was a mistake. Israel will need to do better than that.

• Saudi Arabia seeks Palestinians’ support for Israel deal


Many other commentators stress that these events are a reminder of the case for a two-state solution — Israelis and Palestinians living side by side in sovereign states. But the cold reality is that the last chance for this has probably passed. In 2013, when John Kerry became the United States secretary of state, I was among many who urged him to throw himself at negotiating a two-state solution. It is to his immense credit that he did so. He talked with Netanyahu no fewer than 375 times, made 40 visits to Israel and 34 in one year to the Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas. No one could have tried harder. He failed because of Israel’s steady building of settlements on the West Bank and divided leadership among Palestinians. There was no trust then between the two sides and there is even less now.

Most of the world has given up on such a solution and that includes a great many Arabs. Capitals such as Abu Dhabi and Riyadh can see the global economy changing quickly. They are determined to be at the forefront of it, transforming their societies and linking up their huge wealth with innovation, high-tech security and, most recently, artificial intelligence. That means they want peace around them, to stay ahead of Iran and to co-operate with Israel. The Palestinian cause that was central to their foreign policy for decades is becoming just one of many concerns, to be balanced against other priorities. Much of the Middle East is moving on.

Evidence of that can be seen in the hundreds of thousands of Israeli tourists who have flocked to Dubai. Since the Abraham Accords brought normal relations between Israel and several Arab states, trade and technology links between them have boomed. The UAE looks set for $10 billion of bilateral trade with Israel by 2027. These two countries are working together on cybersecurity, defence systems, banking, healthcare, education and agriculture. An Emirati energy company owns a stake in Israel’s Tamar gas field.

In recent weeks, Saudi Arabia has come to the brink of joining the accords, opening the way to similar co-operation between Israel and the Arab world’s leading power. A few years ago, that would have been unthinkable — the nation whose king is Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques sending an ambassador to Israel and promoting trade and investment between them. Now, it has become an imminent prospect — and one that is of grave concern to an Iranian leadership which partly sustains a strategic rivalry with the Saudis by maintaining hatred of Israel.

ADVERTISEMENT

The shocking terror launched by Hamas has to be seen in this context: of a region that is shifting away from them and their patrons in Tehran. While they will have many motivations — loathing of Israel, antipathy to moderate Palestinians, the opportunity to spring a surprise — their predominant and immediate need is to bring chaos to a region that is progressing without them.

For now, they will have forestalled the Israel-Saudi deal. Whether they can trigger a wider war is in the balance. But in the longer term, if Israel can judge the right response, the forces driving a new geography of power in the Middle East are likely to prove more powerful than this terrible violence. It is no consolation to those caught up in it but nevertheless likely to be true — that this is no strategic masterstroke by Hamas, more a desperate move to fend off a future that is rapidly leaving them behind.

They will not do without the approval from USA.

If they get, nothing will be left in GAZA strip then.... It will be a disaster
 
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@White and Green with M/S

This is only lip service for Palestinian

And what about you guys? You provide more than lip service?

May I remind you that Gen Zia Ul Haq led the Jordanian forces which crushed Palis in 1970. Indian army has never opened fire on Palis.

Regards
 
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I agree with other Bengali PDFer.
India has given a muted response for Hamas invasion just a tweet by PM.
India is still trying to walk a tight rope walk.
India has great relation with both Syria and Iran.
It's a war of European and Arabian Civilization.
Indian Chinese are avoiding this pit.

India should stop seeing the Palestine conflict from the prism of Pakistan. It is a mistake from our media to provide such biased coverage of this conflict. Remember that all Muslims are not like Pakistani people nor share their radical views about India. So it is a disrespect to their sentiment when we blindly support without realizing the intricacies associated with the Israel and Palestine conflict.
 
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