Gaza celebrates murder of family

[nirreich]

Whats Israels long term plan regarding this pickle? They should just go ahead with their version of the two state solution, and Israel still suffer attacks from Hamas, hit back and hit them hard.

To keep calm, an carry on...

There is not a lot we can do to change their minds. As you can see, even in PakDef, the hatred towards Israel in Muslim countries and from Muslims (not all of them!) is so deep and so irrational that Israel is forced to handle it as it is.

 

[ephone]

Hamas apparently is not the one Israel look for to have resolution. I think it need to be back with the Palestinian authority.

What Hamas dictates certainly is NOT acceptable. If Hamas does not remove that notion to obliterate Israel from its resolution target, I think Israel is in every right to hit it as hard as possible.

"Two States Solution" according to Hamas' convention:

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]
consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one
can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'
(Article 11)

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and
international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of
the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of
Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by
Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

And for "dessert", Hamas' anti-Semitism:


'The Day of Judgment will not come about until fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have
accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,
they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred
revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the
French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the
revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret
organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -
which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies
and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...
and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the
world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge
financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them
having their finger in it.' (Article 22)

'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet
expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have
finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they
will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out
in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)

'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the
circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over
the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped
for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'
(Article 32)

Do you still think there is a room for mediation? On what?

 

[rubyjackass]

Under the British Mandate its supposed to be part of the Jewish Homeland. Jews can settle where they like as long as they respect Arab property rights. There's a lot of vacant state land in Palestine, that's where the Jews go.

The British mandate itself is seen as illegal by Arabs. The idea that an occupying force allow one community to get settlers from outside with a promise of separate homeland itself was illogical. Is there any justification for the British mandate?

 

[rubyjackass]

"Two States Solution" according to Hamas' convention:

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]
consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one
can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'
(Article 11)

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and
international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of
the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than
a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of
Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by
Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a
waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

And for "dessert", Hamas' anti-Semitism:


'The Day of Judgment will not come about until fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have
accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,
they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred
revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the
French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the
revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret
organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -
which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies
and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...
and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the
world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge
financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them
having their finger in it.' (Article 22)

'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet
expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have
finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they
will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out
in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)

'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the
circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over
the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped
for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'
(Article 32)

Do you still think there is a room for mediation? On what?

Thanks for the info. Really enlightening.

I heard this somewhere: 'I and my children learn what we all learn in school. To those whom evil is done, will do evil upon others.' Israel came about this way. If it does not want to get eaten up the same way, it should act now.

 

[rubyjackass]

Israel already offered to devide Jerusalem.


You said that "Israel will not give back anything it has taken", so I brought example of Sinai which is 3 times bigger than entire Israel and which was returned. Sinai was captured in same 1967 war as West Bank and Gaza. Israel captured these territories not from Palestinians but from Egypt and Jordan. And Israel already gave to Palestininians 100% of Gaza and 40% of West Bank. Israel is the first country that gave to Palestinians territories for self rule.

Giving away Sinai was in Israel's interest. Other wise instead of the round, it would have lost the whole game. IMO Israelis would not be interested in settling in Sinai, an insecure piece of land where any egyptian attack would dump its first bombs on. Egypt would have been waiting for some third arab country like Lebanon to attack Israel and then Israel would have faced a two front war in which Israeli forces would be spread out defending a longer front with hopeless weaknesses. On the other hand, Jerusalem is a piece of cake, which has stick wielding barbarians living on the other side. Why does not Israel prove that it can commit to giving up Palestinian Jerusalem by clearing the settlements? Doesn't it just say that Israel, for all the valid reasons, is not interested in negotiations now?

 

[rubyjackass]

What does the Palestinian authority/Hamas propose as the solution of this problem? Like something realistic? Asking, "all the Israelis to go back where they came from" doesn't count.

Nobody is suggesting anything realistic my friend. This is the story of the 3 idiots. Israel does not want to give any concessions, even UN mandate would have been fine, as the government is held by throat by religious groups that claim right(or duty for some) of Jews to settle all over the Holy Land. Hamas is a bunch of idealistic morons whose wretchedness now turned into anti-Semitism. The Palestinian Authority is just A faction that came to the fore by claiming false victories and by the showmanship of Arafat and least by the secret arrangements with Israeli forces to keep their own people dumb. Case in point: The leaked cable about the Palestinian negotiations. Even with all the stink PA might have taken home a deal tolerable for their people had Israel not rejected any concession about the bare minimum terms. But why would Israel want to yield? It is in control now. They refuse to realize that they may not be in control forever. But I can give two scenarios which are coming after Israel befoore which they have to wake up. One is the fall of USA, or better put its slide from being an able aid provider of Israel. The second is all of Israel brainwashes itself like Pakistanis are getting now and then they become easy target. Israel is its own and only enemy now.
And I almost forgot -- USA is the fourth idiot.

 

[Jigs]

this will happen if you construct buildings on illegal land...

So people will celebrate the death of human babies ? These types of people have long lost their Humility.

 

[Roybot]

Nobody is suggesting anything realistic my friend. This is the story of the 3 idiots. Israel does not want to give any concessions, even UN mandate would have been fine, as the government is held by throat by religious groups that claim right(or duty for some) of Jews to settle all over the Holy Land. Hamas is a bunch of idealistic morons whose wretchedness now turned into anti-Semitism. The Palestinian Authority is just A faction that came to the fore by claiming false victories and by the showmanship of Arafat and least by the secret arrangements with Israeli forces to keep their own people dumb. Case in point: The leaked cable about the Palestinian negotiations. Even with all the stink PA might have taken home a deal tolerable for their people had Israel not rejected any concession about the bare minimum terms. But why would Israel want to yield? It is in control now. They refuse to realize that they may not be in control forever. But I can give two scenarios which are coming after Israel befoore which they have to wake up. One is the fall of USA, or better put its slide from being an able aid provider of Israel. The second is all of Israel brainwashes itself like Pakistanis are getting now and then they become easy target. Israel is its own and only enemy now.
And I almost forgot -- USA is the fourth idiot.

I think Israel is happy to make some concessions and was happy with the two state solution with some alterations. And as far as I know Gaza settlement evacuation in 2005 was part of that approach. Its the Palestinians/HAMAS who don't have any realistic goal. Palestine needs another Yasser Arafat perhaps?

 

[rubyjackass]

I think Israel is happy to make some concessions and was happy with the two state solution with some alterations. And as far as I know Gaza settlement evacuation in 2005 was part of that approach. Its the Palestinians/HAMAS who don't have any realistic goal. Palestine needs another Yasser Arafat perhaps?

2005 is very different from today. At that time there were significant number of Arab leaders and people who thought 'right to return' was possible. They had higher expectations then. Now they are ready for less. But Israel offers lesser. That's how a negotiation always is. But the initiative should start from the giver in the end. Palestinians cannot demand anything by threat.

 

[Roybot]

2005 is very different from today. At that time there were significant number of Arab leaders and people who thought 'right to return' was possible. They had higher expectations then. Now they are ready for less. But Israel offers lesser. That's how a negotiation always is. But the initiative should start from the giver in the end. Palestinians cannot demand anything by threat.

Israels policy is quite clear about this. Stop the attacks and then negotiation can start. Don't forget the 2006 Lebanon War which pretty much threw the peace process off track.

 

[iPakMan]

2005 is very different from today. At that time there were significant number of Arab leaders and people who thought 'right to return' was possible. They had higher expectations then. Now they are ready for less. But Israel offers lesser. That's how a negotiation always is. But the initiative should start from the giver in the end. Palestinians cannot demand anything by threat.

Why did you dig out this thread? Did you have an urging of some sort to blame it all on Israel? Because i`m afraid hundreds of millions do this on a daily basis already.
Allow me to correct you: The Palestinians had far lesser expectations than they have today, which was encouraged by Europe and President Obama.
Yasser Arafat was a monster who although presented himself as a moderate, cost Israel countless of innocent lives by encouraging Martyrdom, suicide bombings, incitement and murder. If there is justice in this world, he is burning in hell right there with Hitler.

 

[rubyjackass]

This thread was just three four days old. And I have been following it. If you have any problem, feel free to close the tab.
About your comments:
When did I express myself as any sympathetic to Arafat? Gods knows how many people he had paid after their kin died while executing a suicide attack.
And about the talks... really?! Palestinians had lesser expectations then? So Palestinians were disillusioned with their intifada you are saying? or is it after Israel announced Gaza withdrawal? Do you think Palestinians thought Israel withdrew because its a peace loving nation? Now at least they have calmed down because they see some sense of justice in that USA and others are not trying to push anything down their throat.


As regards your impression that I blame it all on Israel, I cant help it.
Millions of Hindus shave their heads to offer their hair to the deity. I also get my head shaved sometimes, in the scorching summer here, because it makes sense.

@roy_gaurav : We both know these terrorists wont stop. There will always be some brainwashed idiot who would want to attack Israel, not just Palestinians. There is a single reason behind why Israel does not negotiate. It is because it doesn't have to. It is similar to India's situation in Kashmir. The crazies won't stop messing up their own PR. The 'oppressor' won't find any incentive for a negotiation. Except that there IS an incentive. Lasting peace. But why risk a chunk of your territory as a chip?

 

[GameSparta500]

coming from you who , supported the people chearing cause of the family deaths

your sick, just awful

is this really how humanity is...

 

[Roybot]

coming from you who , supported the people chearing cause of the family deaths

your sick, just awful

is this really how humanity is...

What are you on about

fu*k you... you sick freak for not condemming the brutal murder of this innocent family

you have no right to call yourself a human......, no right.....

 

[Gold1010]

What are you on about

read his posts tell me if u think hes american bro!