Ganesha idols adorn Indian town before Hindu festival

[Manindra]

As per Hinduism Lord Ram used to worship Shivlingam, so idol worship really goes far far back

I have not read this chapter in Valmiki Ramayan so can't say about & I have serious reservation about authenticity of Tulsidas's 'Ram Charit Manas'.

 

[Fireurimagination]

I have not read this chapter in Valmiki Ramayan so can't say about & I have serious reservation about authenticity of Tulsidas's 'Ram Charit Manas'.

Well the fact remains that Hinduism is ever evolving and their is no one school of thoughts that drives Hinduism, thus the logic to claim that idol worship is not part of original Hinduism is flawed.

 

[Manindra]

Well the fact remains that Hinduism is ever evolving and their is no one school of thoughts that drives Hinduism, thus the logic to claim that idol worship is not part of original Hinduism is flawed.

Every scripture before Buddhism does not back idol worship theory, even atheist like Charwak who didn't criticise it in his writing (Charwak was very critical about foolish ritual).

 

[Hindustani78]

Devotees take part in chariot procession of Lord Ganesha on the occasion of Ganeshotsav at Tasgaon in Sangli, Maharashtra.

Bollywood actor Salman Khan dances during Ganesh festival at his residence in Mumbai.

 

[navtrek]

We BELIEVE in IDOL Worship

Idols are an INTEGRAL part of Hinduism

Nope you have no idea of Hinduism then. Idol worshiping is not an integral part it has become due to a gradual degradation of thought.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Nope you have no idea of Hinduism then. Idol worshiping is not an integral part it has become due to a gradual degradation of thought.

What seems to be degraded here is thought process of people who claim idol worship is degradation. This is clearly due to islamization of their thought process and import of shame at idol worship.

 

[navtrek]

What seems to be degraded here is thought process of people who claim idol worship is degradation. This is clearly due to islamization of their thought process and import of shame at idol worship.

No not really Hinduism has nothing to do with idol worshiping. Showing an idol and teaching about god is way more easy than teaching about god without any support. Thats how the idol worshiping started but at the end of the day it was only a means of visualization or focusing the attention.

The idea was to reach higher and reach the almighty to realize the oneness. That I am not the body and I am the soul.

Idol worshiping is not prohibited in Vedas, but considered as least kind of worshiping. Preference is given to Manasika Pooja which means a person who wish to worship any god, need to assume god's image in his mind and concentrate on that god and worship in his mind Manasika. This method is possible to only those who have a lot of meditation practice, and those people are mostly be saints or Rushi. So all other people who can't achieve this method, they can use alternate way. Idol worshiping is one of the alternate way which can be followed by a common man.

Ways of worshiping will also differ in each Yuga. Difficulty is reduced from one Yuga to another.

In Kruta Yuga or Satya Yuga worshiping is only by Yagna or Yaga and Tapass because gods were coming to earth more often and people were living like few 1000 years. Only those who have ability to do Tapass for many 100 years will be considered for special reward.

In Treta Yuga still Tapass and Yagna or Yaga is the way to worship. But because people live like few 100 years, less than Kruta Yuga, the duration and count also reduced.

In Dwapara Yuga this is again reduced. In Kali Yuga as all we know, no guaranty to live 100 years, among all of it 50-60 years will be spent for career building and settle down. So common people can't follow those difficult methods to worship. So this is again reduced to Nama Smarana. Just chanting gods name is enough. If they have will power then can perform Manasika Pooja for few Seconds.

There are few Shlokas in Vedas which will describe a god. They are called as Dhyana Shlokas. By which one can assume a god with those descriptions.

Most of them can't imagine what they think for very long time, its because of Manasika Chanchalatva, so for those people who can't do Manasika pooja they can follow Idol Worshiping.

reference: Do the Vedas prohibit idol worship? - Hinduism Stack Exchange

 

[Hindustani78]

Nope you have no idea of Hinduism then. Idol worshiping is not an integral part it has become due to a gradual degradation of thought.

Sages and holy men in Hinduism worship the supreme creator and do meditation for years being alone away from people.

 

[punit]

Nope you have no idea of Hinduism then. Idol worshiping is not an integral part it has become due to a gradual degradation of thought.

idol worship may be a later addition but in no way it is a degradation.

 

[Hindustani78]

idol worship may be a later addition but in no way it is a degradation.

Why its an issue , I dont understand ??

Let people to worship supreme creator as they want. Faith is important and its the supreme creator who is going to judge.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

No not really Hinduism has nothing to do with idol worshiping. Showing an idol and teaching about god is way more easy than teaching about god without any support. Thats how the idol worshiping started but at the end of the day it was only a means of visualization or focusing the attention.

The idea was to reach higher and reach the almighty to realize the oneness. That I am not the body and I am the soul.

Idol worshiping is not prohibited in Vedas, but considered as least kind of worshiping. Preference is given to Manasika Pooja which means a person who wish to worship any god, need to assume god's image in his mind and concentrate on that god and worship in his mind Manasika. This method is possible to only those who have a lot of meditation practice, and those people are mostly be saints or Rushi. So all other people who can't achieve this method, they can use alternate way. Idol worshiping is one of the alternate way which can be followed by a common man.

Ways of worshiping will also differ in each Yuga. Difficulty is reduced from one Yuga to another.

In Kruta Yuga or Satya Yuga worshiping is only by Yagna or Yaga and Tapass because gods were coming to earth more often and people were living like few 1000 years. Only those who have ability to do Tapass for many 100 years will be considered for special reward.

In Treta Yuga still Tapass and Yagna or Yaga is the way to worship. But because people live like few 100 years, less than Kruta Yuga, the duration and count also reduced.

In Dwapara Yuga this is again reduced. In Kali Yuga as all we know, no guaranty to live 100 years, among all of it 50-60 years will be spent for career building and settle down. So common people can't follow those difficult methods to worship. So this is again reduced to Nama Smarana. Just chanting gods name is enough. If they have will power then can perform Manasika Pooja for few Seconds.

There are few Shlokas in Vedas which will describe a god. They are called as Dhyana Shlokas. By which one can assume a god with those descriptions.

Most of them can't imagine what they think for very long time, its because of Manasika Chanchalatva, so for those people who can't do Manasika pooja they can follow Idol Worshiping.

reference: Do the Vedas prohibit idol worship? - Hinduism Stack Exchange

Both Idol Worship and without is fine in Sanatan Dharma. The aim remains the same. People change with times. Perhaps your convent education has made you ashamed and apologetic about it. But let us Hindus follow whatever we wish to. With or without Idols. You can and should take your Commandment of No Idol worship to a Church or a Mosque.

 

[Hindustani78]

Both Idol Worship and without is fine in Sanatan Dharma. The aim remains the same. People change with times. Perhaps your convent education has made you ashamed and apologetic about it. But let us Hindus follow whatever we wish to. With or without Idols. You can and should take your Commandment of No Idol worship to a Church or a Mosque.

The main concept in all the religions is to worship the supreme creator and all are having different type of ways to worship the Supreme Creator and this debate is never ending but after Independence , our consitution have gave us the right to worship the Supreme Creator the way we want.

 

[punit]

Both Idol Worship and without is fine in Sanatan Dharma. The aim remains the same. People change with times. Perhaps your convent education has made you ashamed and apologetic about it. But let us Hindus follow whatever we wish to. With or without Idols. You can and should take your Commandment of No Idol worship to a Church or a Mosque.

ABRAHMIC religions are pseudo idol worshipper. Christians not only worship Jesus but a plethora of saints while for Muslims pages of Quran are their idols. just look at the level and intensity of agitation each time a few pages ( even newspaper with koranic verses) get burnt mistakenly or intentionally. Macca and Haj are another examples.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

No not really Hinduism has nothing to do with idol worshiping. Showing an idol and teaching about god is way more easy than teaching about god without any support. Thats how the idol worshiping started but at the end of the day it was only a means of visualization or focusing the attention.

The idea was to reach higher and reach the almighty to realize the oneness. That I am not the body and I am the soul.

Idol worshiping is not prohibited in Vedas, but considered as least kind of worshiping. Preference is given to Manasika Pooja which means a person who wish to worship any god, need to assume god's image in his mind and concentrate on that god and worship in his mind Manasika. This method is possible to only those who have a lot of meditation practice, and those people are mostly be saints or Rushi. So all other people who can't achieve this method, they can use alternate way. Idol worshiping is one of the alternate way which can be followed by a common man.

Ways of worshiping will also differ in each Yuga. Difficulty is reduced from one Yuga to another.

In Kruta Yuga or Satya Yuga worshiping is only by Yagna or Yaga and Tapass because gods were coming to earth more often and people were living like few 1000 years. Only those who have ability to do Tapass for many 100 years will be considered for special reward.

In Treta Yuga still Tapass and Yagna or Yaga is the way to worship. But because people live like few 100 years, less than Kruta Yuga, the duration and count also reduced.

In Dwapara Yuga this is again reduced. In Kali Yuga as all we know, no guaranty to live 100 years, among all of it 50-60 years will be spent for career building and settle down. So common people can't follow those difficult methods to worship. So this is again reduced to Nama Smarana. Just chanting gods name is enough. If they have will power then can perform Manasika Pooja for few Seconds.

There are few Shlokas in Vedas which will describe a god. They are called as Dhyana Shlokas. By which one can assume a god with those descriptions.

Most of them can't imagine what they think for very long time, its because of Manasika Chanchalatva, so for those people who can't do Manasika pooja they can follow Idol Worshiping.

reference: Do the Vedas prohibit idol worship? - Hinduism Stack Exchange

There are plenty of flaws and contradictions in your argument. First you argue idol worship is not integral to Hinduism, as in it is not advocated as well as prohibited. Then you come out and state it is not prohibited but considered tuchha or least kind of worship. Can you quote a passage from Vedas which says it is the least kind of worship?

If one has to imagine an "image" of god in mind, then that is idolatory, because the "GOD" vedas speaks about is Nirguna Brahman, then one without attributes or qualities, hence imageless. The rest are devatas, Gods created by Nirguna Brahman and they always have attributes. These attributes can be crystallized in the form of idols or mental images. No difference really, because by their very virtue of having attributes they can be assessed and accessed any which way humans can and want to.

Also if idol worship is not integral to Hinduism,by your own argument they would not have weaved in a need for idol worship in kaliyuga. The very fact that idol worship was needed for Kaliyuga indicates it is integral to Hinduism unless you want to argue that mass access to worship is not desirable or Hinduism is not the religion for masses, but only of rishis and sages.

Next, is the flaw in your understanding of the yugas. In Satya, Treta, Dwapar yugas "humans" themselves had god like attributes and were nearly flawless in the diminishing order of the yugas and in turn they are the Gods for us in Kali yuga.

Then modernists cannot cry themselves hoarse enough saying Hinduism is not a static dogmatic religion but an ever evolving one when they want to import Western characteristics into our society, but on the issues of beef consumption and idolatory, they always seek to jump back to Satyuga and freeze Hinduism as it supposedly (based on their innovations and misinterpretations) was during that time period as if the next few thousands of years were of no consequence to Hinduism at all. This when they alternately claim Vedic period was not Hinduism at all but Brahmanism.

Finally, you seem to be laboring under the impression that all of Hinduism is vedic in origin and Agamas or Tantra have no role or are not integral to Hinduism when in reality majority of Hindu practices are Agamic. While yoga and tapasya have in fact Agamic origins.

What you are trying to do is conceptualize Hinduism as a variant of Abrahamic religion but with Eastern artefacts. Just replace Jesus or Allah with God, and instead of pew worship substitute it with yagna. Pare it down so that it looks, feels, and is just another "Religion." This is not Hinduism.

 

[navtrek]

Both Idol Worship and without is fine in Sanatan Dharma. The aim remains the same. People change with times. Perhaps your convent education has made you ashamed and apologetic about it. But let us Hindus follow whatever we wish to. With or without Idols. You can and should take your Commandment of No Idol worship to a Church or a Mosque.

Hmmm this is what is the problem with people these days instead of trying to learn and understand another persons views we just jump and tell you are a traitor (In your case calling me a convent educated).

Its not like its my way or the highway. There is nothing there in an idol, I believe that god is there in each and everyone of us and when we realize that truth we become one with the universe.

Worshiping the idol is only the beginning its like teaching a dyslexic kid by showing object examples but in our case the same idol worshiping has become the end also we are not moving forward.

idol worship may be a later addition but in no way it is a degradation.

It is because now people are not moving forward idol worshiping was supposed to be the beginning of the spiritual journey but for most of us its the end.

Sages and holy men in Hinduism worship the supreme creator and do meditation for years being alone away from people.

Yes that is exactly what my point is real search of god only begins with a idol and after that its more of a subconscious mental search via meditation. But what is happening in reality people just blindly worship idols without even realizing the meaning that its only the first step and they have to move onward.

Here is the reason why i think the way i do:

All of you have been taught to believe in an omnipresent God. Try to think of it. How few of you can have any idea of what omnipresence means! If you struggle hard, you will get something like the idea of ocean, or of the sky, or of a vast stretch of green earth, or of a desert. All these are material images, and so long as you cannot conceive of the abstract as abstract, of the ideal as the ideal, you will have to resort to these forms, these material images. It does not make much difference whether these images are inside or outside the mind. We are all born idolators, and idolatry is good, because it is in the nature of man. Who can get beyond it? Only the perfect man, the God-man. The rest are all idolators. So long as we see the universe before us, with its forms and shapes, we are all idolators. This is a gigantic symbol we are worshipping. He who says that he is the body, is a born idolator. We are spirit, spirit that has no form or shape, spirit that is infinite, and not matter. Therefore any one who cannot grasp the abstract, who cannot think of himself as he is, except in and through matter, as the body, is an idolator. And yet how people fight among themselves, calling one another idolators! In other words, each says, his idol is right, and the others' are wrong.

two sorts of persons never require any image--the human animal who never thinks of any religion, and the perfected being who has passed through these stages. Between these two points all of us require some sort of ideal, outside and inside.

The Christians think that when God came in the form of a dove it was all right, but if He comes in the form of a fish, as the Hindus say, it is very wrong and superstitious. The Jews think if an idol be made in the form of a chest with two angels sitting on it, and a book on it, it is all right, but if it is in the form of a man or a woman, it is awful. The Mohammedans think that when they pray, if they try to form a mental image of the temple with the Caaba, the black stone in it, and turn towards the west, it is all right, but if you form the image in the shape of a church it is idolatry. This is the defect of image worship.

We may worship anything by seeing God in it, if we can forget the idol and see God there. We must not project any image upon God. But we may fill any image with that Life which is God. Only forget the image, and you are right enough---for "out of Him comes everything". He is everything. We may worship a picture as God, but not God as the picture. God in the picture is right, but the picture as God is wrong. God in the image is perfectly right. There is no danger there. This is the real worship of God.

Superstition is a great enemy of man, but bigotry is worse. Why does a Christian go to church? Why is the cross holy? Why is the face turned toward the sky in prayer? Why are there so many images in the Catholic Church? Why are there so many images in the minds of Protestants when they pray? My brethren, we can no more think about anything without a mental image than we can live without breathing. By the law of association the material image calls up the mental idea and vice versa. This is why the Hindu uses an external symbol when he worships. He will tell you, it helps to keep his mind fixed on the Being to whom he prays. He knows as well as you do that the image is not God, is not omnipresent. After all how much does omnipresence mean to almost the whole world? It stands merely as a word, a symbol. Has God superficial area? If not, when we repeat the word "omnipresent", we think of the extended sky or of space, that is all.

Idolatry in India does not mean anything horrible. It is not the mother of harlots. On the other hand it is the attempt of undeveloped minds to grasp high spiritual truths.

Man is to become divine by realising the divine. Idols, or temples or churches or books are only the supports, the helps, of his spiritual childhood; but on and on he must
progress.

Swami Vivekananda.

references:
Swami Vivekananda on
Concept of Image Worship