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Future of Pakistan Bangladesh relations

Pakistan should have good relations with Bangladesh. Recently 90% of Bengalis supported Pakistan over India in CT final. It should tell you relations between people are very good and also between governments. Muhammad Amir who destroyed Bharati dream to win champion trophy is married to UK bengalan.
So you mean there is some bangaladeshi hand too in indian defeat :D

Pakistan should have good relations with Bangladesh. Recently 90% of Bengalis supported Pakistan over India in CT final. It should tell you relations between people are very good and also between governments. Muhammad Amir who destroyed Bharati dream to win champion trophy is married to UK bengalan.

No never iran has defence agreement with India
Your question is akin to "Choli ka pichhey kya hai"?

All I can say is "Bohut hai aur top-secret bhi hai".

We can't discuss....
Donot want to disclose:D.scared from BSF :sniper:
 
How can you say these are temporary? Nearly 40 years of war in AFG, 16 years of war in Pak because of the overspill. Iran is heavily involved in Shia Sunni conflict in several Arab countires and is recruiting Shia fighters from Pak to fight its dirty war in Syria and Iraq. India has created itself a strong presence in AFG and is using the country to launch attacks in Pak. Today Iran and AFG have both aligned themselves with India they have no real interest with Pak. Pak is in a very hostile region.


Biggest mistake Pak made was to involve itself in the Soviet onslaught of AFG. Should have left AFG to become another colony of the USSR. Today Afgahsn have become an extremely ungreatful nation and people.

Ideology prevails eventually over politics. Peoples on either side of the Hindu Kush and Sulaiman ranges have always aided each other in emergencies. Afghan Jihad and 3rd Battle of Panipath are examples.

How can you say these are temporary? Nearly 40 years of war in AFG, 16 years of war in Pak because of the overspill. Iran is heavily involved in Shia Sunni conflict in several Arab countires and is recruiting Shia fighters from Pak to fight its dirty war in Syria and Iraq. India has created itself a strong presence in AFG and is using the country to launch attacks in Pak. Today Iran and AFG have both aligned themselves with India they have no real interest with Pak. Pak is in a very hostile region.


Biggest mistake Pak made was to involve itself in the Soviet onslaught of AFG. Should have left AFG to become another colony of the USSR. Today Afgahsn have become an extremely ungreatful nation and people.

Ideology prevails eventually over politics. Peoples on either side of the Hindu Kush and Sulaiman ranges have always aided each other in emergencies. Afghan Jihad and 3rd Battle of Panipath are examples.
 
We were never as a whole, we were being fed a lie back home. We cannot be blamed as a people, bureaucrats and politicians screwed us up.

Ah, the dichotomy between the people and the government. It'll always be there, but one where there's dynamism. Not something where people feel trapped.

You know, it is very interesting how we South Asians are so cocooned to our views such that we become so biased that it becomes a systematic habit. And that leads to making mistakes. And that in turn leads to suffering. I admit though that this phenomenon is extremely steep among Bangladeshis. They are are in essence trapped in a space they are not even remotely aware of. I would say the same to the Indians (though, they do have a functional democracy). Even though South Asian society is very complicated and diverse, there are reasons why South Asia had always consistently lagged behind their other Asian counterparts on nearly all metrics. Do you similarly feel trapped? That more could have been done for a better world so that we don't feel propelled to migrate abroad?

Like I said before, there is one establishment outside the government and any political party that does seek to undermine Pakistan and overestimate Bangladesh's achievements. It is this soft power that is being exploited. This is not to say that they are evil. Just misinformed, and perhaps weak. Not to mention, a society that makes people feel warm and fuzzy and make them feel closer to one another. It is perhaps the only thing they have left within their sociopolitical spectrum.

The Cold War is long over. 1971 is long over. It shouldn't cast any shadow not just on your country, but nobody. Everyone should be happy, advancing and prosperous and yet we fret over who's version of history is correct. So much so, that some are availing it (a very evil thing to do) just to make themselves look more powerful.

During my recent trip to Malaysia, I went to Kinokuniya - A global bookstore chain containing all sorts of books. I couldn't resist the urge to visit the War Section. So much knowledge out there ranging from the middle ages till the military conflicts of today. Yet, virtually nothing on Indo-Pak wars - let alone 71'. Not a single book of a theater of war that killed three million Bengali people. Is it not strange? And here we are in Bangladesh today along with their Indian friends hounding their opponents and enemies over the most minute matters.

I believe that it is high time to open the books. Let's read about the actual experiences of Pakistani soldiers and their commanders. The failures, and how those lead to the result that is now Bangladesh. How can such failures be prevented for commanders in this day and age (an age presenting a unique set of challenges)? These could be done through academic work and publishing books through world-class publishers. A guide for any modern-day commander and even politicians. It may even force people to rethink of the future.

Your country has the actual experience here from a perceptive different of that of Indians. A perspective seemingly world-wide accepted view, but they are not facts and only what they view (thanks to soft power and their participation in journalism around the world). The Indians don't have that experience from your experiences. It is unique. To them, East Pakistan was just a land they can exploit for a strategically advantageous position. Wouldn't it prudent to use that experience rather than just sticking to old ways? I believe it is high time now.

The past should not pose as a cloud for anybody, nor should it be misused by some greedy potbellies.
 
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@Loki ELITE MEMBER
A brilliant and well written post, the real truth should emerge with established and proven facts instead of squabbling over based on propaganda and politically biased heresy/rumors, Gobbles theory, and then finally, bury the coffin.
 
Would Bangladeshi members like to share their points of view regarding the game Heroes of 1971? Do you support such video games depictin Pakistanis as your enemies? Does revenge still haunt you?
 
A lot of Pakistanis in the UK start talking to me in their native language and I have to
tell them to speak in English as I cannot understand.

Well majority of bangladeshis ( 90%+ those who stays abroad) do understand Urdu/Hindi. What ever u may say. the same language you guys were against since inception. lol

So now bangladeshis are as powerful as America??????????..............lol.......:lol:





Bro, I've even been asked if I'm Colombian or Brazilian.........lol.......:lol:

In ASEAN usually they consider us as Persians or Arabs.

They might have mistaken you as an Indian because Indians tend to understand a bit or Urdu. :lol:

Majority Bangaldeshis do understand urdu/hindi but some of them pretend they dont. In Malaysia there are less than a million bengalis and i can assure you if not all but max can understand basic words of our language.

See the delimma is none Pakistani can speak bengali but they can speak our lang. the same Lang which they hated most thanks to our drams and bollywood :). Karma is a bitch.

The entire world knows who is the aggressor, Pakistan or India. The people of Pakistan have only been duped by the army Generals who take away big money for the military and themselves in the name of so-called existence of Pakistan. In the process the development lacks fund and people suffer.

Why so many millions of poor Pakistanis have to go to middle east to seek employment when the GoP promises plates of Kebab, Karhai Ghost and Biriyani for the Kashmiris? India certainly does not want the demise of Pakistan once Kashmir problem is settled amicably. However, Pakistan does not want to walk the half distance. Well, I am not a spokesman for the GoI. But, it is my personal observation.

What kind a blushitt is this, Why millions of Bangladeshi Men and Women go to every other country for shitty jobs, though by Bangladeshis they are the 2nd fastest and much better economically than Pakistan?

Why the remittance of Bangladeshis send way less money than Pakistanis though they have almost same ratio of people? Poor shits like u think u have become so powerful. Though u r still third rated people. 99% people of this world dont even point in which hell Bangladesh is.
 
During my recent trip to Malaysia, I went to Kinokuniya - A global bookstore chain containing all sorts of books. I couldn't resist the urge to visit the War Section. So much knowledge out there ranging from the middle ages till the military conflicts of today. Yet, virtually nothing on Indo-Pak wars - let alone 71'. Not a single book of a theater of war that killed three million Bengali people. Is it not strange? And here we are in Bangladesh today along with their Indian friends hounding their opponents and enemies over the most minute matters.
You are living in a Euro-Western centric world. So you will find more book on battle of Hastings(1066AD) or Battle of Bannockburn(1314AD) than a major war involving between two poor non-western countries.So, what's so strange if you don't find any book on 1965 war or 1971 war outside south asia? But it doesn't negate the importance of 1971 war on Bengali mind or minimize the pakistani atrocity. If Bangladesh become a powerful and influential country in future, than our history will generate much interest worldwide.Isn't it simple?
I believe that it is high time to open the books. Let's read about the actual experiences of Pakistani soldiers and their commanders. The failures, and how those lead to the result that is now Bangladesh.
You are trying to insult the liberation movement and emergence of Bangladesh as a byproduct of some sort of policy failure on part of Pakistani army and seems to regret that.Bangladesh is independent because, 70 million people wanted it and was determined to sacrifice anything to achieve that goal.Please do not act like, you are speaking as a representative of Independent Bangladesh. You are a mourner from East Pakistan.
 
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You are trying to insult the liberation movement and emergence of Bangladesh as a byproduct of some sort of policy failure on part of Pakistani army and seems to regret that.Bangladesh is independent because, 70 million people wanted it and was willing to sacrifice anything to achieve that goal.Please do not act like, you are speaking as a representative of Independent Bangladesh. You are a mourner from East Pakistan.

Truth is never afraid of being questioned. What is fundamentally wrong with what Loki is asking? You should only ever have one narrative of something as important as formation of a country? To others it just seems you are afraid of something. Btw that extends to the Pakistanis that do not want to read the BD side of matters and experiences too.
 
Truth is never afraid of being questioned. What is fundamentally wrong with what Loki is asking? You should only ever have one narrative of something as important as formation of a country? To others it just seems you are afraid of something. Btw that extends to the Pakistanis that do not want to read the BD side of matters and experiences too.
All the Pakistani general's book on 1971 or important book written by Pakistani author about 1971 war, are available in Bangladesh, many in Bangla translation.A.A.K Niazi's book on 1971 war was best seller in Bangladesh.I have seen that book prominently displayed across many libraries in Bangladesh.I know a Bangladeshi writer, Dr. Muntasir Mamun, who extensively travelled Pakistan and met all the important generals and politician who are were alived then and involved in 1971 including B.Bhutto, Niazi and others and wrote several books in Bengali on their thought and perspective.There is no dearth of Pakistani perspective on 1971 war in Bangladesh and all Bangladeshi informed people about 1971 war are familiar with Pakistani dispute/claim about number of death, ''Indian conspiracy'' and all other mumbo-jumbo and many have refuted them.I find it hilarious that you think, Bangladesh is like North Korea, completely shut out from opposing view and there is a media blackout.People like Loki or idune are like holocaust denier or Nazi admirer.Like Jew, we are not against their right to question but have a very negative view on them like the jew have towards holocaust denier, or a Chinese have for the Nanjing rape/Japanese atrocity denier.
 
I find it hilarious that you think, Bangladesh is like North Korea, completely shut out from opposing view and there is a media blackout.People like Loki or idune are like holocaust denier or Nazi admirer.Like Jew, we are not against their right to question but have a very negative view on them like the jew have towards holocaust denier, or a Chinese have for the Nanjing rape/Japanese atrocity denier.

As long as openly questioning the 3 million genocide claim is a prosecutable offense in BD, yes its a lot closer to North Korea than the region as a whole. You can question both the alleged scale and one-sidedness of a state sanctioned mass-murder without denying it took place at some level (a level to be established, and one that should investigate all deaths not just winning side).

No one in the whole world takes any parallel with Holocaust and armenian genocide seriously for the BD one, BD society ought to introspect why and come to a better foundational truth based on full neutral investigation (as much as can be done) for the world to take it seriously (like they did with the Holocaust, pouring over much detailed evidence and the subject is still not a closed one on both sides). If Loki and others are bridges to that happening for the alleged BD one, more power to them. Or if BD society is not interested in doing that, thats fine, just no one is going to take your claim seriously anywhere outside your borders....and even within it to large degree.
 
No one in the whole world takes any parallel with Holocaust and armenian genocide seriously for the BD one, BD society ought to introspect why and come to a better foundational truth based on full neutral investigation (as much as can be done) for the world to take it seriously (like they did with the Holocaust, pouring over much detailed evidence and the subject is still not a closed one on both sides).
1971 genocide didn't get wider recognition because of our fault.Our previous military rulers(who trained and worked in Pakistan army pre-1971) and their wife were reluctant to pursue anything which might upset Pakistan or their favorite Pak army.But things are changing in right direction now.Newer generation are much more informed and enthusiastic about the events surrounding the independence war.Bangladesh have started from a low intensity international lobbing to get recognition of 1971 war.Observation of 'Genocide remembrance day' will highlight the events of 1971 worldwide through Bangladesh embassy. Our case is not that hopeless.Even Armenian genocide was almost forgotten for almost 70 years.It started to get recognition only after Armenia became an independent nation state.Same with Ukrainian Holodomor genocide.
http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/
 
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1971 genocide didn't get wider recognition because of our fault.Our previous military rulers(who trained and worked in Pakistan army pre-1971) and their wife were reluctant to pursue anything which might upset Pakistan or their favorite Pak army.But things are changing in right direction now.Newer generation are much more informed and enthusiastic about the events surrounding the independence war.Bangladesh have started from a low intensity international lobbing to get recognition of 1971 war.Observation of 'Genocide remembrance day' will highlight the events of 1971 worldwide through Bangladesh embassy. Our case is not that hopeless.Even Armenian genocide was almost forgotten for almost 70 years.It started to get recognition only after Armenia became an independent nation state.Same with Ukrainian Holodomor genocide.
http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/

Would you accept that we might never know the real headcount of those killed ?
 
Would you accept that we might never know the real headcount of those killed ?
Yes, actually all head count are estimate.Some have more margin of error than other.But all have big margin of error if you consider upper and lower claim.For holocaust it is , 0-6million.At least Pakistanis are admitting they have killed 26,000.
 
Yes, actually all head count are estimate.Some have more margin of error than other.But all have big margin of error if you consider upper and lower claim.For holocaust it is , 0-6million.At least Pakistanis are admitting they have killed 26,000.

I presume census, birth & death records are not accurate enough to help here
 
I presume census, birth & death records are not accurate enough to help here
If we undertake a vigorous attempt to find out the number of death, than a partial account can be made.But it need to be like a census in scope and magnitude.There are hundreds of killing field dotted across Bangladesh, including 23 in just core Dhaka metropolitan areas found so far.Many killing field have monuments build on and names were engraved.But most were lost.In case of Bangladesh, our most of the killing fields are actually in the depth of rivers.Pakistani army usually raided a village.Rounded up several hundreds of men, took them at the bank of river and just shoot and dumped in river.One of my maternal uncle were taken in such ways to river bank.He was then a 10th grade student.He was blindfolded and was about to be shoot, but there was a relative of him who used to work for local Pakistani military camp rushed to that site upon hearing news from somewhere and spared his life by begging for his life.Then uncle joined the Mukti Bahini.My another Paternal relative were killed in 1971.He was a soldier of EBR and died at the hands of Pakistani forces during operation searchlight.There are countless such incidence across the land.
http://www.thedailystar.net/killing-fields-1971-our-owes-our-strength-1330243
 
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