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Future of Pakistan Bangladesh relations

A 'Euro-Western centric world'? Which world would you suggest I live in? A Bengali nationalist centric world? Your world? No thanks...:lol:

There are books on tactics and strategy regarding non-Western theaters of war. Sun Tsu's The Art of War is a part of Chinese literature after all. The war of 1971 is just not in military academia. Very little is known. I don't see how that is being 'Euro-Western centric'.

I am not insulting the movement for separation. It was a model bound to fail due to simple geography. Nixon asked the Chinese to advance their troops at the Sino-Indian border just to scare the Indians, but they didn't. They knew the inevitable outcome. Why conduct a military operation for no reason? The man was bad at strategy.

I was suggesting a different approach to our Pakistani friends here. Rather than criticizing the war crimes trial in Bangladesh, I suggested something which would be beneficial for the global military academia as a whole. Knowledge creates value, and value advances humanity no matter which point of view you look at it. If you found that offensive, then I take it that you are not a very educated person. There's also a thing called mutual respect which maybe very alien to you and your kind.

I never said that I'm a 'representative' of Bangladesh. I would say that I'm a minority. But if you are going to be a representative of Bangladesh here, then please by all means go right ahead. I can already see how well that is going. Bangladesh becoming a 'powerful and influential' country in future. How exciting!

I used to be just like you. But then one day, I decided to have a really good look in the mirror.

Very well said!
 
A 'Euro-Western centric world'? Which world would you suggest I live in? A Bengali nationalist centric world? Your world? No thanks...:lol:

There are books on tactics and strategy regarding non-Western theaters of war. Sun Tsu's The Art of War is a part of Chinese literature after all. The war of 1971 is just not in military academia. Very little is known. I don't see how that is being 'Euro-Western centric'.
No one is asking you to live any other world other than your choosing.But it is a common knowledge that, non western events don't get the same attention like the western one.Pundits have long termed this phenomenon as 'Euro centric bias'. Even after discounting that bias, 1971 war got fairly decent amount of attention.I can see a large number of books in English language written by both south Asian writers and western writers either singularly focused or discussed as a part of international relation among the countries involved in it.Just because, you didn't found a single book in a 'Malaysian library' doesn't mean it does not exist.What if, books were in that library, but you overlooked? Can you claim, you have checked every book in that library?Tell me at first how many books were there?

It is laughable that, you are giving example of Sun Tsu's 'The Art of War'(5th century BC) with that of 1971 war,Are you really expecting a book like 'The Art of War' to be written based on 1971 war? That book is a classical literature have similar significance like that of Plato's 'Republic' or Kautilya's 'Arthashastra'.San Tsu didn't focused any singular war in Chinese history, he wrote his book on a broader pattern of warfare in ancient and classical China.That book and like that of above mentioned two are part of world literary heritage.They were written at the dawn of human civilization.Expecting anything like that for 1971 is a little far fledged.Isn't it?
I am not insulting the movement for separation. It was a model bound to fail due to simple geography.
Excuse of geography is one which Pakistani apologist like to give when confront the realities of gross injustice and repression carried out by Pakistani military junta.Hadn't Bengalis joined Pakistan despite knowing geographic distance? Had East Bengal were connected to west Pakistan geographically and west Pakistani rulers carried out same type of discrimination, ethnic prejudice and exclusion, do you think we would have not revolted? During the 24 years period, had any Bengali complained about geographic distance? Or they were complaining about the injustice?
Does geographic distance beget injustice? Then what about the many current successful states around the world who are geographically fragmented? Old Pakistan were 2 part with common religion.Indonesia is 17,000 part with diverse culture, religion, language.Some Christian majority province of Indonesia is as far distant from Jakarta as were between East and West Pakistan.Or what about East Malaysia and West Malaysia? They are not only geographically separated but also have different linguistic and religious majority with East Malaysia is a lot of less Bhumiputra and more Christian than Wast Malaysia which contain Kuala Lampur.How they are surviving? May be they have formulated a just and workable federal system early on their country's foundation? Had anything happened with Pakistan like this? They monopolize all the power at the center from the day one for just one objective.To rule East Pakistan like a colony and exploit it as much as possible.So how do you expect that union to survive? Or all these were not important, only geography decided?
I was suggesting a different approach to our Pakistani friends here. Rather than criticizing the war crimes trial in Bangladesh, I suggested something which would be beneficial for the global military academia as a whole.
If you don't know, Pakistanis already have written a lot of books on 1971 from their perspective.More are welcome.My objection was not for your claimed suggestion to your Pakistani friends about this.But your notion that, Bangladesh is only independent because of Pakistani military failure at the hands of India and Bangladeshi people were passive spectator, had no desire for independence or control over the course of the events.Which I found offensive and you have decided for that reason that I am intolerant to opposing view?

It is a funny contradiction, Whenever you say anything which we know to be against the truth and accepted facts based on historic realities, it is your 'seeing from different angle and mutual respect and understanding' but if I object that proposition and give some counter argument than I am 'intolerant, nationalistic and less educated'? Perhaps, Jews should not contradict the claim of Holocaust denier and question the deniers honesty? If they do then they are intolerant, less educated and ultra jewish nationalist.Right? Well you may claim, Bengali people's suffering is not like that important of jew or other nationalities who suffered past injustice, or even not true at all.
Knowledge creates value, and value advances humanity no matter which point of view you look at it. If you found that offensive, then I take it that you are not a very educated person. There's also a thing called mutual respect which maybe very alien to you and your kind.
I do not claim to be a very educated person, I just tell what I consider to be right in my view point. No dispute about your sermon on Knowledge, value, humanity and mutual respect.But moral relativism which you are propagating here in this forum looks very ugly when there is a clear aggressor and victim in that said events and a huge power imbalance.One is a powerful militaristic state hellbent of crushing opposition and others are unarmed civilian population. Moreover a section of population who acted like Quisling during the war and still roaming free and propagating similar views like that you.So it became a little difficult to engage in debate without questioning the allegiance of that person towards his motherland.You know, questioning about allegiance is the 'lack of education' even if that questioned person is Golam Azam.Right?
I never said that I'm a 'representative' of Bangladesh. I would say that I'm a minority.
Yes we know about a minority who doesn't claim to be the representative of Bangladesh despite living here and being granted citizenship.Nothing new.We are seeing them since 1971.
But if you are going to be a representative of Bangladesh here, then please by all means go right ahead. I can already see how well that is going. Bangladesh becoming a 'powerful and influential' country in future. How exciting!
Yes, I am a representative of Bangladesh and we will go ahead no matter what.I don't know about whether Bangladesh will be 'powerful and Influential' But we will strive hard to make it poverty free, illiteracy free, corruption free with decent living standard and a dignified position among the family of nations.There will always be naysayer, but cultivating a dream and working to fulfill that is what count.There will be ups and downs,but the spirit of a determined nation doesn't extinguished that easily.
 
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Well majority of bangladeshis ( 90%+ those who stays abroad) do understand Urdu/Hindi. What ever u may say. the same language you guys were against since inception. lol



In ASEAN usually they consider us as Persians or Arabs.



Majority Bangaldeshis do understand urdu/hindi but some of them pretend they dont. In Malaysia there are less than a million bengalis and i can assure you if not all but max can understand basic words of our language.

See the delimma is none Pakistani can speak bengali but they can speak our lang. the same Lang which they hated most thanks to our drams and bollywood :). Karma is a bitch.



What kind a blushitt is this, Why millions of Bangladeshi Men and Women go to every other country for shitty jobs, though by Bangladeshis they are the 2nd fastest and much better economically than Pakistan?

Why the remittance of Bangladeshis send way less money than Pakistanis though they have almost same ratio of people? Poor shits like u think u have become so powerful. Though u r still third rated people. 99% people of this world dont even point in which hell Bangladesh is.


You know.... I have traveled the world and met many Bengali people all over the place.... 9/10 when I talk in urdu, they understand me and I never thought more about it.

Then one day, years ago, I was just sitting around and it hit me.... why the F--k did these people have a hissy fit over language when now majority of them (outside Bangladesh?) can speak Urdu?
 
No one is asking you to live any other world other than your choosing.But it is a common knowledge that, non western events don't get the same attention like the western one.Pundits have long termed this phenomenon as 'Euro centric bias'. Even after discounting that bias, 1971 war got fairly decent amount of attention.I can see a large number of books in English language written by both south Asian writers and western writers either singularly focused or discussed as a part of international relation among the countries involved in it.Just because, you didn't found a single book in a 'Malaysian library' doesn't mean it does not exist.What if, books were in that library, but you overlooked? Can you claim, you have checked every book in that library?Tell me at first how many books were there?

It is laughable that, you are giving example of Sun Tsu's 'The Art of War'(5th century BC) with that of 1971 war,Are you really expecting a book like 'The Art of War' to be written based on 1971 war? That book is a classical literature have similar significance like that of Plato's 'Republic' or Kautilya's 'Arthashastra'.San Tsu didn't focused any singular war in Chinese history, he wrote his book on a broader pattern of warfare in ancient and classical China.That book and like that of above mentioned two are part of world literary heritage.They were written at the dawn of human civilization.Expecting anything like that for 1971 is a little far fledged.Isn't it?

Excuse of geography is one which Pakistani apologist like to give when confront the realities of gross injustice and repression carried out by Pakistani military junta.Hadn't Bengalis joined Pakistan despite knowing geographic distance? Had East Bengal were connected to west Pakistan geographically and west Pakistani rulers carried out same type of discrimination, ethnic prejudice and exclusion, do you think we would have not revolted? During the 24 years period, had any Bengali complained about geographic distance? Or they were complaining about the injustice?
Does geographic distance beget injustice? Then what about the many current successful states around the world who are geographically fragmented? Old Pakistan were 2 part with common religion.Indonesia is 17,000 part with diverse culture, religion, language.Some Christian majority province of Indonesia is as farr distant from Jakarta as were between East and West Pakistan.Or what about East Malaysia and West Malaysia? They are not only geographically separated but also have different linguistic and religious majority with East Malaysia is a lot of less Bhumiputra and more Christian than Wast Malaysia which contain Kuala Lampur.How they are surviving? May be they have formulated a just and workable federal system early on their country's foundation? Had anything happened with Pakistan like this? They monopolize all the power at the center from the day one for just one objective.To rule East Pakistan like a colony and exploit it as much as possible.So how do you expect that union to survive? Or all these were not important, only geography decided?

If you don't know, Pakistanis already have written a lot of books on 1971 from their perspective.More are welcome.My objection was not for your claimed suggestion to your Pakistani friends about this.But your notion that, Bangladesh is only independent because of Pakistani military failure at the hands of India and Bangladeshi people were passive spectator, had no desire for independence or control over the course of the events.Which I found offensive and you have decided for that reason that I am intolerant to opposing view?

It is a funny contradiction, Whenever you say anything which we know to be against the truth and accepted facts based on historic realities, it is your 'seeing from different angle and mutual respect and understanding' but if I object that proposition and give some counter argument than I am 'intolerant, nationalistic and less educated'? Perhaps, Jews should not contradict the claim of Holocaust denier and question the deniers honesty? If they do then they are intolerant, less educated and ultra jewish nationalist.Right? Well you may claim, Bengali people's suffering is not like that important of jew or other nationalities who suffered past injustice, or even not true at all.

I do not claim to be a very educated person, I just tell what I consider to be right in my view point. No dispute about your sermon on Knowledge, value, humanity and mutual respect.But moral relativism which you are propagating here in this forum looks very ugly when there is a clear aggressor and victim in that said events and a huge power imbalance.One is a powerful militaristic state hellbent of crushing opposition and others are unarmed civilian population. Moreover a section of population who acted like Quisling during the war and still roaming free and propagating similar views like that you.So it became a little difficult to engage in debate without questioning the allegiance of that person towards his motherland.You know, questioning about allegiance is the 'lack of education' even if that questioned person is Golam Azam.Right?

Yes we know about a minority who doesn't claim to be the representative of Bangladesh despite living here and being granted citizenship.Nothing new.We are seeing them since 1971.

Yes, I am a representative of Bangladesh and we will go ahead no matter what.I don't know about whether Bangladesh will be 'powerful and Influential' But we will strive hard to make it poverty free, illiteracy free, corruption free with decent living standard and a dignified position among the family of nations.There will always be naysayer, but cultivating a dream and working to fulfill that is what count.There will be ups and downs,but the spirit of a determined nation doesn't extinguished that easily.

Also very well said!
 
You know.... I have traveled the world and met many Bengali people all over the place.... 9/10 when I talk in urdu, they understand me and I never thought more about it.

Then one day, years ago, I was just sitting around and it hit me.... why the F--k did these people have a hissy fit over language when now majority of them (outside Bangladesh?) can speak Urdu?

Thats true, i have really good bengali friends. and some of them are really damn good. They are also fed up with their govt. propaganda on bongabandhu. But thrit govt. has created such a environment that if any ne say anything against govt. they will call him rajakar or BNP supporter. lol
 
Well majority of bangladeshis ( 90%+ those who stays abroad) do understand Urdu/Hindi. What ever u may say. the same language you guys were against since inception. lol



In ASEAN usually they consider us as Persians or Arabs.



Majority Bangaldeshis do understand urdu/hindi but some of them pretend they dont. In Malaysia there are less than a million bengalis and i can assure you if not all but max can understand basic words of our language.

See the delimma is none Pakistani can speak bengali but they can speak our lang. the same Lang which they hated most thanks to our drams and bollywood :). Karma is a bitch.



What kind a blushitt is this, Why millions of Bangladeshi Men and Women go to every other country for shitty jobs, though by Bangladeshis they are the 2nd fastest and much better economically than Pakistan?

Why the remittance of Bangladeshis send way less money than Pakistanis though they have almost same ratio of people? Poor shits like u think u have become so powerful. Though u r still third rated people. 99% people of this world dont even point in which hell Bangladesh is.

Language alone was not the main issue. United Pakistan broke because we are not connected by land. We would have survived as one country even if we were connected by a mile wide land to main land west Pakistan.

Urdu was in Bd from the time of its inception. Though it was mainly used by elite Muslim class.

I personally still believe Urdu was fitted language for united Pakistan. I have experienced conversations become much easy while using Urdu with Pakistani or Indians friends. It's just works better than English sometimes.
 
United Pakistan broke because we are not connected by land.
Lame excuse. It broke because the concept of "Punjabi master race". See what Doyalbaba posted..
Does geographic distance beget injustice? Then what about the many current successful states around the world who are geographically fragmented? Old Pakistan were 2 part with common religion.Indonesia is 17,000 part with diverse culture, religion, language.Some Christian majority province of Indonesia is as far distant from Jakarta as were between East and West Pakistan.Or what about East Malaysia and West Malaysia? They are not only geographically separated but also have different linguistic and religious majority with East Malaysia is a lot of less Bhumiputra and more Christian than Wast Malaysia which contain Kuala Lampur.How they are surviving? May be they have formulated a just and workable federal system early on their country's foundation? Had anything happened with Pakistan like this? They monopolize all the power at the center from the day one for just one objective.To rule East Pakistan like a colony and exploit it as much as possible.So how do you expect that union to survive? Or all these were not important, only geography decided?
 
Language alone was not the main issue. United Pakistan broke because we are not connected by land. We would have survived as one country even if we were connected by a mile wide land to main land west Pakistan.
Urdu was in Bd from the time of its inception. Though it was mainly used by elite Muslim class.
I personally still believe Urdu was fitted language for united Pakistan. I have experienced conversations become much easy while using Urdu with Pakistani or Indians friends. It's just works better than English sometimes.
I personally, always talk or reply back in English with other South Asian citizens,never spoke in Hindi or Urdu( the language I was taught back during school days in East Pakistan). However, my favorite is to speak in Sylhoti.
 
the geography of East Pakistan requires a friendlier policy towards India. I do not think West Pakistanis would ever change their policies to accommodate it
 
No it doesn't. However it also doesn't need useless conflict with India either.

It is hard for them to fight India over Kashmir and maintain smiling face in the Eastern sector
In 1965 war India ignored the East Pakistan front. If you are a Bangladeshi you would be wondering why India did not attack you despite declaration of war
 
survived as one country even if we were connected by a mile wide land to main land west Pakistan.
This one sentence clearly demonstrate your subservient mental slavery vis-a-vis West Pakistani Punjabi. In 1947-1971 period, majority of people of Pakistan lived in East Bengal.So, if any land rightfully claim to be the mainland. than it should be the East Bengal.West Pakistan was a minority, albeit powerful one.You can't claim the residence of a minority population as a mainland.
 
It is hard for them to fight India over Kashmir and maintain smiling face in the Eastern sector
In 1965 war India ignored the East Pakistan front. If you are a Bangladeshi you would be wondering why India did not attack you despite declaration of war
The whole India-Pakistan conflict is pointless. In an ideal scenarios these countries should get along nicely and form a friendly relation. Which would be a very good thing for South Asia. India and Pakistan share a lot with each other. Urdu is very similar to Hindi. Both suffered under British rule. So such two nations should get along with each other. But no.............you guys can't stand each other. Bangladesh should never get caught up in conflicts like this.

If Mujib was given power to rule all of Pakistan......or if Bengalis in Pakistan were allowed in higher post in administration in significant numbers then India and Pakistan today would've enjoyed a better relation than it has today. Maybe not friendly but not hostile either.
 
the geography of East Pakistan requires a friendlier policy towards India. I do not think West Pakistanis would ever change their policies to accommodate it
We Muslim Babus are simply adopting the Chanakya fine art of Diplomacy, and will impliment the saying at the appropriate time. SABR.
Chanakya.jpg

So in the best traditions of Kautilya (who wrote the classical 60 Indian manual on statecraft) Dr. Subhash Kapila urged upon the Indian government the following observations –

• India’s strategic and foreign policy establishment must recognize that India’s management of its strategic partnerships, both existing and evolving must be adroitly done

• India’s strategic stances must not generate reverberations from other global power centers, until India reaches the culminating stage of emerging as an independent power center in the world.
 

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