From Bangladesh to Balochistan

[EjazR]

Help yourself first, we will take care of ourselves. Thank You!

I understand your sentiment, but my comment was only towards eastwatch. Thats why I used the word if

And when I talk about helping, its mostly in terms of helping all citizens not just restricted by religions and applies to everyone. It was the brilliant Bangladeshi economist (Dr. Mohammed Yunus) who revolutionised poverty removal by introducing Grameen bank and micro-financing. That has helped millions of poor of India a lot. Infact it has helped poor around the world!

Similarly, we all (muslims and non-muslims, pakistanis and non-pakistanis) collected money and resources when the earthquake happened in Kashmir and again for the IDPs in Swat.

Again similarly Pakistani NGOs are doing voluntary work to help the poor in Afghanistan as well.

 

[xebex]

Saudi Arab has defense contract with Pakistan, If they get attacked Pakistan will reply and that's why 7000Km missile is ready. we are their deterrent.
Saudi Arab (F-15s) and UAE (Mirage 2000)forth generation planes are being piloted by Pakistanis. In Bosnia Pakistani Army went as Pace keepers.
What can Bangladeshi and Indian Muslim do for defense of Islam? They are like 0 + 0 for Islamic world defense.

U r mistaken my friend. Indian muslims doesnt have to fly fighter jets to defend Islam........ They defend islam by not engaging in violance and terrorism unlike in Middle east.

only idiots thinks declaring war with a country is declaring war with a specific religion.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Yes there are poor muslims in India (infact majority muslims fall in this category), but so is the case with others in India, as well as with Pakistan and Bangladesh. The main thing is what is GoI doing to alleviate this, and the present government is doing a better job (compared to BJP) in this regard. There is no doubt that Minority communities do need extra help in any country and GoIs' efforts like the minority affairs ministry, Sachar report e.t.c. are all examples of this extra help being provided to help the under-priviledged among not only muslims but all minority communities. There are other issues like Communal violence and hate speech/literature that are being looked into and improved.

Though I agree, still needs more work to be done to uplift not only under-priviledged minority communities but all Indians. No society can be perfect there will always be room for improvement, but atleast it should be moving TOWARDS that ideal goal instead of away from it.



Before you selfishly malign deoband in India, go check your facts, its was the hijacking of deoband schools by Pakistani intelligence/CIA/Saudi interests that resulted in extremism. These madrassas don't even follow religious ruling released by Dar-ul-uloom Deoband in India, then how can they be related? It is unfortunate that you would stoop as low as Islamaphobes who potray Deoband in a bad light by connecting it to extremism.

And just because these ulema who fought against the British colonialist you want to call that extermist? They had a very important part in the freedom struggle, which unfortuntately is completely negated in Pakistan, and isn't highlighted as much as it should in India.

What they did with Sir Syed Ahmed khan shows how hardliner they were. He just wanted Muslims to learn English and Science. who stoped Muslims from going to English schools in 18th and 19th century: Deobandis
Ya, Migration to Afghanistan as they declared English-India Harm for Muslims (read history please). Afghanistan took none and every one had to come back.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

U r mistaken my friend. Indian muslims doesnt have to fly fighter jets to defend Islam........ They defend islam by not engaging in violance and terrorism unlike in Middle east.

only idiots thinks declaring war with a country is declaring war with a specific religion.

Islamic holly sites in Saudi Arab are Important to all Muslims, every Muslim will defend them if they are attacked.
Soon many Indian Muslims will go to Saudi Arab for Hajj to these sites.

 

[sajan]

Soon many Indian Muslims will go to Saudi Arab for Hajj to these sites.

Thats not a big news. Every year Indians go for Hajj. And their number increases year after year..

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Thats not a big news. Every year Indians go for Hajj. And their number increases year after year..

Just making it clear: it was an example of importance of these holy sites for Muslims all over the world.

 

[EjazR]

What they did with Sir Syed Ahmed khan shows how hardliner they were. He just wanted Muslims to learn English and Science. who stoped Muslims from going to English schools in 18th and 19th century: Deobandis
Ya, Migration to Afghanistan as they declared English-India Harm for Muslims (read history please). Afghanistan took none and every one had to come back.

Sir Syed was pro-British, ofcourse he did a lot to make English education acceptable among muslims and established the AMU. But that doesnt mean he wasn't responsible for the death and imprisonment of hundreds of ulema and other muslims who were fighting the British at that time. Even a number of his collegues in AMU did not agree with his pro-British policies.

Deoband Ulema`s Movement For The Freedom Of India: A book review article

It was only in this context that British education/indoctrination was opposed. It was because of his siding with the British during 1860s the ulema had an unfavourable view about him. NOT about modern education itself.


It is part propaganda / part mis-understanding that deoband opposes English or modern education.
Aligarh and Deoband: is there any contradiction? | Indian Muslims



Regarding the second part Im not sure what you are referring to. Do you have a neutral link about this that explains this in detail.
There might have been some mullahs who gave individual fatwas(and it happens even today) but you should know that you can't paint all of them with the same brush.

Islamic holly sites in Saudi Arab are Important to all Muslims, every Muslim will defend them if they are attacked.

Ofcourse, they are important. For Sikhs, there is nankana sahib which is also very holy for them.

But no one in their right mind would even think about attacking a holy site. And all nations, including non-muslim majority nations would condemn and unite agains such an attack. Let me remind you that it was the US that was first and major power that helped KSA when Saddam Hussain launced his offensive into Saudi.

You seem to think that Islam is in danger. Alhamdulliah, there is no such thing like that.
If we want to provide service to Islam, lets present the true picture by coming back to the life of the Prophet and to the true spirit of Quran. The problem is most Islamophobia created these days is because of misunderstanding / misconceptions not only among non-muslims but muslims as well. Ofcourse there is miniscule minority that are genuine bigots, but the majority is not like that. If we strive to highlight the fundamental teachings of Islam such as giving in charity, honesty, fairness in trade, being kind to strangers and neighbours and things like that, that is a much greater service to Islam in today's time.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well Baluchistan has 14 % of Pak Population and represent only 14 seats in assembly,

while FATA only have 2.5% of Population only represented by 12 seats

Why is this injustice to them?

According to the 1998 census, the population of Baluchistan was 6.5 million and the the population of FATA 3.1 million, out of a total population of 132 million.

That means Baluchistan comprises a little under 5% (not 14%) of Pakistan's total population and FATA comprises about 2.3%.

Also, Baluchistan has 17 total seats in the National Assembly - 14 men and 3 reserved women.

FATA has 12 total seats. However, the ratio of FATA's seats in the National Assembly is still greater relative to its share of the population, which applies to all provinces.

That greater share may be because of FATA's special status in the constitution. However, it is perhaps also balanced out in the Senate.

59. The Senate
[50][(1) The Senate shall consist of one-hundred members, of whom,-
(a) fourteen shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly;
(b) eight shall be elected [55A] *** from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, in such manner as the President may, by Order, prescribe;
[Chapter 2: Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] of [Part III: The Federation of Pakistan]

 

[eastwatch]

I disagree, Islam is not Pakistan's jagir. Just because you are a muslim in India or Bangladesh does not him inferior to a Pakistani muslim. It is taqwa that matters.

And dont forget the Muslim population of India and Bangladesh combined is much bigger than that of even Indonesia. So I suggest you come out of your inferiority complex.

But yes I agree that the future of Pakistan and the people in that region of Pakistan (muslims as well as non muslims) depends on how Pakistan solves this. Bangladeshi and Indian muslims can chart their own future, and if our Pakistani brothers need help we can help them too.

I think, you are just beating about the bush intentionally or you are trying to derail the thread. Who raised the question of inferiority or superiority of Indian Muslims, did I? I am taliking about the EFFECTS of a bifurcated Pakistan on the Muslim future of the Sub-continent. I am talking of the strategic matter and not necessarily of the good Muslim or bad Muslim thing.

A person with a very small intellect will also know that if Pakistan is dismantled today, Bangladesh will be equal to nothing in terms of military strength in front of a big enemy country like India. And we already know about the present status of Indian Muslims.

They remain the most illiterate group in India and their social status remains essentially lower than even the Dalits. Do I have to remind you of the Gujrat riot and the status of the Kashmiri Muslims? You have to accept the hard reality.

What do you expect of the Indian Muslims in a situation when Pakistan is bifurcated into a few, and BD remains a weak country? To know about the status of their future I request you to read the history of SPAIN after the Muslims (Umayyads) were defeated by the Christian power there.

Whatever Muslims you will find in Spain today are the immigrant Muslims and not the local ones. So, where are the Spanish Muslims? If you have the curiosity to know the answer, please read the history of Spain after the Christian conquest. How they were forced to relinquish the Islamic faith of their fore fathers. It took only a few decades to convert them to Christianity. The same thing will happen to the Muslims of India after the Hindu victory by treachery or what.

In every sense a militarily strong and fully integrated Pakistan is a hindrance to fulfilling India's dream of Akhand Hindu Bharat (AHB). Therefore, it is essential that Pakistan wins over its internal feuds partly created by the Pakistanis themselves and partly fuelled by Hindu India.

 

[EjazR]

@eastwatch
Just a quick fact for you.

Pakistan literacy rate is 49.9% (2005 census)
Bangladesh is 43.1% (2004 census)
And in India its 59.9% (2001 census) And this is specifically Indian muslims. All India it is 65%.

I still think this is deplorable, All countries should improve their literacy levels and the Govt. and volunteer organisations should take active part in this.


I apologies if my post misconstrued what you had to say, but I was merely saying that it is not Pakistan's resposibility to take care of all muslims of the sub-continent. It is unwise to put such a pressure when what woudl be more important is improving the quality of life of people. And we should mutually help in uplifiting the lives of the commono people regardless of religion.

I have explained what I meant in more detail in this post. http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/31528-bangladesh-balochistan-4.html#post452453

And any sane person, including non-muslims would loathe the idea of a disintegrating Pakistan, particularly the result of the fallout that would cause. The loss of lives and any backlash that might result later on. And I fail to see why India would invade Bangladesh. I would vehemently oppose that if it is just for imperialist goals. And Im sure many of my non-muslim co-citizens would oppose it too.

And the Spanish history does not apply to Indian muslims. You know why? Because Chritian Spain did not have freedom of religion. But India does. Hope that clarifies my point

 

[salman nedian]

Salman Nedian, please note that we are two separate countries already and are living far apart from each other. However, I can tell you one thing. Whatever may be our depth of sorrow in our hearts because of 1971 killings by the Punjabi military, if there is an attack on Pakistan by India, no one in BD will sit idle in his house.

Everybody will go out to demonstrate against India. I am very much sure of this sentiment of population. You can expect armed volunteers from BD as well. However, if BD military will move or not depends upon many factors. If BD army moves its forces suddenly towards the border, it will certainly loosen the Indian grip in the west. But, who knows what BD army will do in such a situation.

I think, India is not after direct assault, only because Pakistan is not that weak. So, India is making a two-front covert assault there. One is Balooch and the other is Mehsudi Pathans. Pakistan must start developing Baluchistan, but fight the Indian stooge Mehsudis until they throw away their arms. India is doing sweet talking with Pakistan, but, at the same time, sending logistics to the Mehsudis.

I again say, the future of Pakistan and the Muslim community of our region depends upon how succeessfully Pakistan can tackle their internal twin problems.

Thank you for your support for Pakistan but I would again say that don’t enclose yourself in boundaries.

 

[salman nedian]

now if in war with Pakistan...bangladesh instead of China intervenes in all the ways mentioned in your posts(peaceful demonstration
ruled out)..we'd declare war....and be ready to handle the second front....cuz there are few countries that can fill in china's shoes...and Bangladesh is not one of them.

Hundreds of thousands of Mujahideens can get activated in Pakistan to defend any Muslim country in the world. Beware of that!

 

[salman nedian]

What can Bangladeshi and Indian Muslim do for defense of Islam? They are like 0 + 0 for Islamic world defense.

Indian and Bangladeshi Muslims have created Pakistan and they have a very big role in making us what we are now.

 

[brahmastra]

Saudi Arab has defense contract with Pakistan, If they get attacked Pakistan will reply and that's why 7000Km missile is ready. we are their deterrent.
Saudi Arab (F-15s) and UAE (Mirage 2000)forth generation planes are being piloted by Pakistanis. In Bosnia Pakistani Army went as Pace keepers.
What can Bangladeshi and Indian Muslim do for defense of Islam? They are like 0 + 0 for Islamic world defense.

Give me a break. then with the same logic, why don't you go and fight for the afghani and iraqi muslim. they are in trouble right now. Go there and defend the islam in those country.
You donot need the the 7000Km range missile to defend islam in afghanistan and you guys can easily make 15000Km range missile to aid iraqi muslim as you just start the project and within a month or two inducts in the army.

 

[TopCat]

@eastwatch
Just a quick fact for you.

Pakistan literacy rate is 49.9% (2005 census)
Bangladesh is 43.1% (2004 census)
And in India its 59.9% (2001 census) And this is specifically Indian muslims. All India it is 65%.

HOHOHO.... wait here.

Definition of literacy is BD is "15 years and above people who can demonstrate the skill of 5th grade standard, by appearing actual test".

Definition of Indian literacy "7 years or older person who declare themselves can read and write in census".

Based on our defintion current literacy in Bangladesh "49%" who scores 50 and above in 100 mark test. 65% who scores 25 to 50 range and called semi literate. 75% and above who could declare themselves can read and write. Again they are based on 15 years and above age range. Taking into 98% enrollment rate, if we take 7 years and above age range, yo do the math.

Thanks
PS: we did not have census in 2004 rather its every 10 years and last census was done in 2001 and the next is due in 2011