France, Germany vie to sell Pakistan subs

[graphican]

Sir Zardari

Now we have PPP Jiyalas on the forum too. Ofcourse he as kids to feed; the country can **** itself over coz zardari has 3 kids to feed... fuckin sick mentality...

Comon its a valid reason. Can you think why a person would do billions of dollars of corruption and why would he choose to earn such a humility within nation and elsewhere? He is really helpless in that, please understand that.. he needs our support and backing. Worry to raise 2 English speaking daughters and one son studying abroad! In spite of all these differences they are in Pakistan for our betterment! All the senior members of his party and public representatives have understood that and they are supporting him to earn amenities. These are the people who could see the worries of a father not insane people like you who laughs at others posts in military defense forums.

and yes, if Sir Zardari says yes to French Subs, It better be French Subs or I will gather-up Jialas and do street protest! We support Bhutto that's why we are behind Zardari! Simple theory!

 

[fatman17]

why french and not german - here's why!

FRENCH have potentially offered
SUBS
RADAR for JF-17
BVR missiles for JF-17
LCH for army
ENGINE for JF-17
Upgrade security for Pak Nuke power-plants

GERMANS have offered
SUBS
Torpedoes for subs
Excess APCs
Excess TANKS

go do the sums - the dice is loaded against the germans!
bribes / kick-backs are secondary at this point!

 

[Developereo]

Everything we want to get or try to get, certain controversy hits it and this again is not different. The chance of getting U boats is seeming to fade away by each day.
One thing always amuses me how come you never see these non governmental organization and left wing parties protest when India is buying. They only wake up when Pakistan decides to buy something.

It's a combination of two things:
- Western media is overwhelmingly anti-muslim, and the media shapes public opinion.
- India has one of the best diplomacy/lobbying machines in the world.

 

[Developereo]

Friend does that mean india's subs are advanced good quality subs than china's? Even when its in far less amount that china's subs? France making 6 subs for india. While few top countries helping india to build 3 nuclear submarines. i still doubt that china's subs less capable because china even builds nuclear subs. China can help pakistan but i dont understand why pakistan not requested china for building new subs. Pakistan can trust china more than germany or france.

If China was smart they would give money to Pakistan to buy Western subs. It would do two things:

- Strengthen Pakistan against India
- Transfer of technology from West -> Pakistan -> China

 

[Myth_buster_1]

why french and not german - here's why!

FRENCH have potentially offered
SUBS
RADAR for JF-17
BVR missiles for JF-17
LCH for army
ENGINE for JF-17
Upgrade security for Pak Nuke power-plants

GERMANS have offered
SUBS
Torpedoes for subs
Excess APCs
Excess TANKS

go do the sums - the dice is loaded against the germans!
bribes / kick-backs are secondary at this point!

excuse me but we want what is best for our navy! why should we let french make us swallow their crapy subs when we want Type-214? just because they are offering us alot more stuff does not mean we have to buy all of them or simply f off... this is a sing of very very bad diplomacy! we are going to leave a very bad example of self ripping off... letting others rip us of...

 

[HAIDER]

excuse me but we want what is best for our navy! why should we let french make us swallow their crapy subs when we want Type-214? just because they are offering us alot more stuff does not mean we have to buy all of them or simply f off... this is a sing of very very bad diplomacy! we are going to leave a very bad example of self ripping off... letting others rip us of...

I think so too, we should give a shot to world best sub after American......As far as French, its famous saying for them " show me the money ". But German rarely sell their technology to others and its not even expose to many nations, specially Indian..

 

[hj786]

If China was smart they would give money to Pakistan to buy Western subs. It would do two things:
- Strengthen Pakistan against India
- Transfer of technology from West -> Pakistan -> China

I don't think the West would transfer blueprints for anything worth showing to the Chinese, they want to keep their customers as long as possible.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

U-214's stealth and silent features made one sided to go for U-214 instead of french marlin subs

 

[fatman17]

excuse me but we want what is best for our navy! why should we let french make us swallow their crapy subs when we want Type-214? just because they are offering us alot more stuff does not mean we have to buy all of them or simply f off... this is a sing of very very bad diplomacy! we are going to leave a very bad example of self ripping off... letting others rip us of...

only thing i have done is put whats on offer on the table! i have not made any comment on which way to go!

 

[Screaming Skull]

Hi guys,

I don’t think that this decision to cancel the German order coming just days after the launch of the Indian nuke sub is a mere coincidence. Here is why-

For starters, AIP version of the Scorpene, with the MESMA air-independent propulsion is much larger than the German U-214. It is 76.2 m in length with a displacement of 2000 tonnes, whereas the U-214 is 65 m long with a displacement of just 1700 tonnes! Does that ring a bell? What this difference in dimensions and tonnage clearly signifies is that the Scorpene has more room to carry missiles! And IMHO, the PN has suddenly changed its strategy after the recent developments and now wants to use the three subs it procures in a tactical role rather than an attack role. Add to that the fact that Germany is not a nuclear weapons state. What that means is that the Germans will never allow Pakistan to carry Nuke tipped CMs on a sub supplied by them. Whereas, France being a Nuclear weapons state itself will not have any ideological differences with Pak carrying Nuke tipped missiles as compared to the Germans. Though, I doubt that any country will openly allow Pak to carry nuke tipped missiles on its sub as it would lead to a violation of the NPT, France may be the only country that may give covert approval. Also, once the CMs are loaded in the sub, no one will know what warhead it carries. So, Pakistan can afford to be ambiguous on that front. I will go so far as to say that the French might have even offered to assist Pakistan with the integration of their CMs with the Scorpenes just to sweeten the deal.

In essence, if the PN indeed intends to use the three subs in a tactical role than an attack role, then make no mistake, the French Scorpene is ‘THE BEST’ option for PN as of now for all the reasons stated above.

Just my 2 paisas!

 

[HAIDER]

But India is also acquiring same French subs?????....Both country same weapon ???

 

[Super Falcon]

that mesma air propulision our agosta already have dont worry U 214 is more silent than agosta and scorpene

 

[Myth_buster_1]

what utter nonsense.. these indians never stop amusing me with their masala news..

Hi guys,

I don’t think that this decision to cancel the German order coming just days after the launch of the Indian nuke sub is a mere coincidence. Here is why-

its merely a "coincidence".. PN new way long before that IN will be inducting nuclear subs...

For starters, AIP version of the Scorpene, with the MESMA air-independent propulsion is much larger than the German U-214. It is 76.2 m in length with a displacement of 2000 tonnes, whereas the U-214 is 65 m long with a displacement of just 1700 tonnes! Does that ring a bell?

seriously is this your logic? even PN Agosta-90B is 76 meters? so what? i highly dough that with the integration of AIP in conventional subs you can increase the ammo cartridge /torpedo tubes etc... the hull with AIP is going to be totally separate from cartridge hull and not a single inch is going to be increased in that section...

What this difference in dimensions and tonnage clearly signifies is that the Scorpene has more room to carry missiles! And IMHO, the PN has suddenly changed its strategy after the recent developments and now wants to use the three subs it procures in a tactical role rather than an attack role.

prime example of bedroom general.. keep on dreaming..

Add to that the fact that Germany is not a nuclear weapons state. What that means is that the Germans will never allow Pakistan to carry Nuke tipped CMs on a sub supplied by them. Whereas, France being a Nuclear weapons state itself will not have any ideological differences with Pak carrying Nuke tipped missiles as compared to the Germans. Though, I doubt that any country will openly allow Pak to carry nuke tipped missiles on its sub as it would lead to a violation of the NPT, France may be the only country that may give covert approval. Also, once the CMs are loaded in the sub, no one will know what warhead it carries. So, Pakistan can afford to be ambiguous on that front. I will go so far as to say that the French might have even offered to assist Pakistan with the integration of their CMs with the Scorpenes just to sweeten the deal.

this has already been discussed to death in various threads and forums... the germans have agreed to supply us type-214 and we can use it how ever we want it... their is absolutely no restriction..

In essence, if the PN indeed intends to use the three subs in a tactical role than an attack role, then make no mistake, the French Scorpene is ‘THE BEST’ option for PN as of now for all the reasons stated above.

yep... tell this to germans and they will slap your face... you can compile **** load of cra*...

 

[SSGPA1]

why french and not german - here's why!

FRENCH have potentially offered
SUBS
RADAR for JF-17
BVR missiles for JF-17
LCH for army
ENGINE for JF-17
Upgrade security for Pak Nuke power-plants

GERMANS have offered
SUBS
Torpedoes for subs
Excess APCs
Excess TANKS

go do the sums - the dice is loaded against the germans!
bribes / kick-backs are secondary at this point!

French offer does look good but PN will have a better position with the German subs.

I truly hope that German subs get approval so that PN have some stealth capability.

With the present economic situation, France will still offer the other goodies.

 

[Super Falcon]

dont forgot german tanks is best tank in the world even abram is no match leopard 2 is tried and tested