France, Germany vie to sell Pakistan subs

[Omar1984]

France and Germany can be very close friends of Pakistan in the future.

My friend works in Germany and he said the Germans are very nice people, he made many good friends there.

Long Live Pakistan-Germany friendship!
Long Live Pakistan-France friendship!

 

[MZUBAIR]

I THINK WE SHOULD GO WITH FRENCH OFFER
OF PROCUREMENT OF FURTHUR ADVANCE VERSIONS OF AGOASTA-90B
AND UPGRADES ON OUR OLD AGEING FLEETS OF AGOSTA 70B

Yes, I agree wt ur thinking.

Pakistan should procure french submarine and ask then for Agoasta 70B and Agosta 90B.........besides that Pakistan also ask them to support in technology for enhancing JF-17 capabilities. like engine and aveonics etc

 

[MZUBAIR]

France and Germany can be very close friends of Pakistan in the future.

My friend works in Germany and he said the Germans are very nice people, he made many good friends there.

Long Live Pakistan-Germany friendship!
Long Live Pakistan-France friendship!

Nobody is ur friend dude. But yes Pakistan shld extend miltary cooperation with germany and France.

Pakistan shld quiet USA.

 

[fatman17]

Well, we could still go for French subs as French will sell anything we want as long as we have cash.

the most critical difference between France and Germany is the Supply Chain - the french dont operate the boats its trying to sell to us, OTOH, the germans have a very flexible supply chain.

why did the PN switch from agostas with ToT to the U214? the reasons above.

 

[TaimiKhan]

the most critical difference between France and Germany is the Supply Chain - the french dont operate the boats its trying to sell to us, OTOH, the germans have a very flexible supply chain.

why did the PN switch from agostas with ToT to the U214? the reasons above.

totally agreed, plus the Merlin submarine they have offered, is just on papers right now, when we went for agosta models, they were in service in french and other nations navy, even scorpene would have been bought as its with other navies too but india has bought them so no need to have a similar system, rather we should go after the german sub, and should check out the chinese in future, which by then would have become very competitive.

 

[Zarbe Momin]

the most critical difference between France and Germany is the Supply Chain - the french dont operate the boats its trying to sell to us, OTOH, the germans have a very flexible supply chain.

why did the PN switch from agostas with ToT to the U214? the reasons above.

U214 dives upto 400m it can also dive a bit more and agosta just upto 300m. U214 is more silent has stealthy technology and better fuel cell technology with crew and officer of total 27 persons. In future it is also going to use surface to air missels.

 

[Brahm0s]

Friends if am right i think china builds subs too. Even nuclear submarine. Why dont pakistan take help from china? Is chinees submarines not capable that pakistan not even requesting for submarine to china? Atleast pakistan can trust china more than germany or france.

 

[hj786]

Friends if am right i think china builds subs too. Even nuclear submarine. Why dont pakistan take help from china? Is chinees submarines not capable that pakistan not even requesting for submarine to china? Atleast pakistan can trust china more than germany or france.

China's subs simply aren't good enough for the PN if they want something as advanced as U-214. Certainly, the Chinese subs would be considered if they were good enough and made available for export to PN. They are already taking help from China in warships, though.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Nobody is ur friend dude. But yes Pakistan shld extend miltary cooperation with germany and France.

Pakistan shld quiet USA.

YEAH THAT's WHY I WANT PN TO ASK FRENCH FOR NEW SUBS...
BEACAUSE IT WILL NOT ONLY GIVE AN EXTRA OPTION OF UPGRADES ON AGOSTA 70B SUBS
BUT IT WILL ALSO OPEN NEW DOORS TO
AVAILABLITY OF NEW ENGINES ,WEAPONS AND RADARS FOR OUR BOCK II SERIES OF JF-17​

 

[sancho]

Unfortunately it comes down to selling to Pakistan, a Muslim state with nuclear arms and this scares them thus always the talk of things falling into the hands of extremists (as if Pakistan is 98% extremists and 2% ATW (Acceptable To West). They talk about concerns about an arms race, one should ask them what race? Its a race when you have two equals. India spends $30 billion a year and we spend $4 billion. They kid themselves and no one else talking about an arms race not realizing that equipping Pakistan conventionally means the nuclear rung is that much further up the chain of escalation.

First of all Germany will sell you the U214, the only problem now is that it would be stupid to do that during the elections, because it would give other parties a chance to attack. When the elections are done in sept I don't think there will be much trouble, because like most of the western countries, Germany also wants to make money!
Secondly, don't you think it is a bit cheap to say that they have problems to sell to Pakistan, because it is a muslim country? There are no big problems to sell the U214 to Turkey right?
The problem is, that Pakistan at the moment is the center of terrorism and Taliban in the worlds view.
You are right, of course it's not 98% terrorist and Taliban, but the threat these few people means to western countries don't let them see it differently. Things like Taliban taking over Swat, terrorists attacks from Pakistan to other countries and even normal news about bomb blast in Pakistan, didn't make it better. Combine that all with the fear of unsecure nuclear weapons and you have more than enough reasons (for western countries) not to sell more hi tech arms, or at least to have doubts.
The arms race reason is a double edged sword, on the one hand they are right, cause India is arming up to counter China and Pakistan is arming up to counter India, everybody with their own capabilities of course. On the other hand this didn't started last week, the arms race began decades ago and the western countries served all sides with arms and made a lot of money with it, so that is really not a real reason.
At the end both, India and Pakistan will be not seen as equal to western states, even if both are nuclear powers. The difference at the moment are, the money and the big market India can offer (which makes it easier to deal with them) and the problems of that Pakistan has with Taliban and terror groups.

 

[IceCold]

First of all Germany will sell you the U214, the only problem now is that it would be stupid to do that during the elections, because it would give other parties a chance to attack. When the elections are done in sept I don't think there will be much trouble, because like most of the western countries, Germany also wants to make money!
Secondly, don't you think it is a bit cheap to say that they have problems to sell to Pakistan, because it is a muslim country? There are no big problems to sell the U214 to Turkey right?
The problem is, that Pakistan at the moment is the center of terrorism and Taliban in the worlds view.
You are right, of course it's not 98% terrorist and Taliban, but the threat these few people means to western countries don't let them see it differently. Things like Taliban taking over Swat, terrorists attacks from Pakistan to other countries and even normal news about bomb blast in Pakistan, didn't make it better. Combine that all with the fear of unsecure nuclear weapons and you have more than enough reasons (for western countries) not to sell more hi tech arms, or at least to have doubts.
The arms race reason is a double edged sword, on the one hand they are right, cause India is arming up to counter China and Pakistan is arming up to counter India, everybody with their own capabilities of course. On the other hand this didn't started last week, the arms race began decades ago and the western countries served all sides with arms and made a lot of money with it, so that is really not a real reason.
At the end both, India and Pakistan will be not seen as equal to western states, even if both are nuclear powers. The difference at the moment are, the money and the big market India can offer (which makes it easier to deal with them) and the problems of that Pakistan has with Taliban and terror groups.

Turkey is a secular state and not a Muslim country, just to get some facts straight.

 

[SSGPA1]

First of all Germany will sell you the U214, the only problem now is that it would be stupid to do that during the elections, because it would give other parties a chance to attack. When the elections are done in sept I don't think there will be much trouble, because like most of the western countries, Germany also wants to make money!.

I agree the delay is due to the Sept elections and Paksitan will get the U214s. This delay will probably give India time to finalize the French sub deal and German govt. will be able to say that this sell will only balance the equation in SE seas.

Combine that all with the fear of unsecure nuclear weapons and you have more than enough reasons (for western countries) not to sell more hi tech arms, or at least to have doubts.

The arms race reason is a double edged sword, on the one hand they are right, cause India is arming up to counter China and Pakistan is arming up to counter India, .... At the end both, India and Pakistan will be not seen as equal to western states, even if both are nuclear powers. The difference at the moment are, the money and the big market India can offer (which makes it easier to deal with them) and the problems of that Pakistan has with Taliban and terror groups.

Blain2 is absolutely right in pointing out the bias towards Pakistan. Situation in Pakistan was not always the same but the Western strategy has been to weaken Pakistan.

Our nuclear weapon was called 'Islamic bomb' but your nuclear weapon was not called a 'Hindu bomb'.

Paksitan never had an extremist Islamic party in power but BJP in India has already stayed in power twice.

As far as the security of our nuclear weapons is concerned, it is as good as any other country if not better.

Talibans had short term gains but now they are on the run so please don't use this point, besides as I mentioned earlier this is not as simple as West suggest.

 

[Brahm0s]

China's subs simply aren't good enough for the PN if they want something as advanced as U-214. Certainly, the Chinese subs would be considered if they were good enough and made available for export to PN. They are already taking help from China in warships, though.

Friend does that mean india's subs are advanced good quality subs than china's? Even when its in far less amount that china's subs? France making 6 subs for india. While few top countries helping india to build 3 nuclear submarines. i still doubt that china's subs less capable because china even builds nuclear subs. China can help pakistan but i dont understand why pakistan not requested china for building new subs. Pakistan can trust china more than germany or france.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Friend does that mean india's subs are advanced good quality subs than china's? Even when its in far less amount that china's subs? France making 6 subs for india. While few top countries helping india to build 3 nuclear submarines. i still doubt that china's subs less capable because china even builds nuclear subs. China can help pakistan but i dont understand why pakistan not requested china for building new subs. Pakistan can trust china more than germany or france.

just because that chinese subs can't match french and german subs in any context

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Everything we want to get or try to get, certain controversy hits it and this again is not different. The chance of getting U boats is seeming to fade away by each day.
One thing always amuses me how come you never see these non governmental organization and left wing parties protest when India is buying. They only wake up when Pakistan decides to buy something.

Sir:
India has China card to play in West, which makes it easy for them to get any weapon they want. Indian propaganda that China will attack India by 2012 or their chief’s statement that China is a bigger threat to India buys them all the help they need in west.

Second card India uses in West is being biggest democracy in the world so Socialism Vs democracy is the name of the game for them.

Third playing card India has in West is that Jewish lobby has taken Indian lobby under their wings.