Former DG ISI My comments have been twisted

[SMC]

Pray tell me how I should view it.

The two statements are obviously contradictory. Besides that, we've obviously gone over other problems with this article already.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Dont you just love the indians getting so excited about conspiracy theories that are represented as fact, they are learning from western propoganda that facts are an optional extra lol

the facts as they see it are from someone who is commenting about events after his dishonourable discharge, and the facts are actually what he "believes" meaning he is speculating. on top of that an organisation that operates strictly on domestic matters is being accused for hiding OBL and the army connection is being justified on the bases that its director Ijaz Shah who was a retired Brigadier. The funniest part is that he was IB chief only during 2004-08. So he wouldn’t have had anything to do from stopping Nawaz Sherif in 1999 when he allegedly decided to help USA find and handover Bin Laden (although OBL was filmed by American UAVs in Afghanistan) Also when OBL was finally found and terminated Mr Ijaz was long retired in 2011. But still that didn’t save him from accusation in this article.

---------- Post added at 05:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 AM ----------

This is not the first time a retired Military/ISI chief has come out with truths -- contrary to the 'official' versions in Pakistan.

this truth?

he revealed that the ISI had helped the CIA to track him down and kill on May 1.

the begining bit of article is speculation .. it states he "believes" Military leadership was aware of OBL presence. such fact or evidence will be dismissed by any court and the person slapped with a fine for wasting court's time.

 

[foxbat]

From your article..

From the same article

The revelation remained unreported for some time because some intelligence officers had asked journalists to refrain from publishing General Butt’s remarks. [1] No mention of the charges appeared until right-wing columnist Altaf Hassan Qureshi referred to them in an Urdu-language article that appeared on December 8. [2]

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You want to cherry pick one part of his speech while denying another ?

The alleged 'source's' contradictory claims point to a lack of credibility ...

You can pick either one of the two statements, but that does not change the fact that one statement/claim contradicts the other, meaning that they are likely both just speculation and hogwash.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is not the first time a retired Military/ISI chief has come out with truths -- contrary to the 'official' versions in Pakistan.

Late.ACM Nur Khan, ACM Asghar Khan, acceptance of NLI role in Kargil are all examples of how truth comes out, but maybe a little late in Pakistan.

However, this particular gentleman, if his identity is correct, was court-martialled and kicked out of the Army for supporting Nawaz Sharif in his bid to kick out Musharraf.

So this individual was out of the Army long before the Afghan invasion, and certainly long before 2005 (assuming 6 years of OBL residing in Abbottabad). Given that he was despised by Musharraf, and Musharraf promoted loyalists, how would Butt have the top-level connections and insider info to something so top-secret as the ISI/Musharraf hiding OBL?

Also, given the fact that Butt was kicked out by Musharraf, and the fact that Butt has offered wildly contradictory statements in this alleged 'speech', his credibility in implicating Musharraf is pretty much zero.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Its an ex Chief of Army and ISI head who is saying this... The proverbial Horse's mouth really

Not the horse's mouth at all - the man was kicked out of the Army by Musharraf long before any of the events he claims to have knowledge about occurred, and the fact that he was kicked out by Musharraf means that he would have a vested interest in maligning Musharraf.

 

[MastanKhan]

We keep hearing the statement, "elements within the Pakistani military/ISI." For a disciplined force like the PA having a proper reporting and command structure, it is not possible that there exist 'sections' within the Army/ISI that have a different agenda of their own. How can this happen? How can this be permitted? Is there an army within an army? Now that's not possible.

Therefore this oft repeated statement of 'certain elements within the Pakistan Army' is nothing but poppycock. Period!

Sir,

No, it is not poppycock---every agency has similiar groups---may it be in pakistan, britain, israel, usofa or india---in you r country---the raw will also have splinter groups with their own agenda---I mean to say----in a simple office----people have groups with their own agendas----so what is different here.

 

[araz]

Sir,

No, it is not poppycock---every agency has similiar groups---may it be in pakistan, britain, israel, usofa or india---in you r country---the raw will also have splinter groups with their own agenda---I mean to say----in a simple office----people have groups with their own agendas----so what is different here.

MastanKhan.
What i feel is that Pakistan needs to investigate impartially whether this was the case or not. If it was not it will be cleared, but even if it was , politically it would be the triumph of truth over obscurity. We can tow the line that the dictator who had US support was the one who harboured the criminal( ???? with consent of his masters!!!). However, the whole episode needs to be ravelled once and for all. I still firmly believe that it was all a con,and the reason PA is so angry is the fact that the US staged it in their backyard while tricking them and perhaps got into a situation of being able to blackmail them. It is not a case of conspiracy theory, but a criminal of this magnitude is never disposed of like this in the quiet of the night without any witnesses.
Araz

 

[Pioneerfirst]

Butt Army Chief?
Remained for Few hours,

Conspiracy theories, Intelligence Bureau is most of the time involved in tracking criminals and political issues.The military establishment will never leave such a sensitive matter on civilians.

 

[Night_Raven]

So the official Pakistani statement is that Osama just hid in the Abottabad compound for 10 years , a stone's throw away from its military academy , without ANY one in Pakistan knowing about his whereabouts , eh ?

 

[Meengla]

So the official Pakistani statement is that Osama just hid in the Abottabad compound for 10 years , a stone's throw away from its military academy , without ANY one in Pakistan knowing about his whereabouts , eh ?

I don't know why is it so hard to understand for some people: Pakistan gained nothing from protecting OBL. No, not even the bogus 'logic' that Pakistan would somehow milk the NATO by having OBL protected. Now, that is a poppycock theory.

It has been mentioned here, especially by Agno, that it was not some 'mansion' where OBL hid and it has been mentioned quite clearly that even OBL's neighbors were genuinely surprised to find his presence there. Further, look up what Rumsfeld said about that--I posted his video shortly after May 2011 raid.

Back to the topic: As @Araz says above: We need to fully investigate this matter. It should not be hard to settle the issue once and for all. I think this general Butt will have his butt kicked at the end.

 

[BATMAN]

GUYS... don't push the gas without listening to the interview.

I have following observation after listening partial interview.

1- The title of the thread is wrong... becasue Gen. Ziaudin didn't said it was IB, in a reply to a pressing question about OBL and ISI! so he replied that>
'ISI is not the only agency in the country comparing to IB it is tiny. He said it is his personal guess that IB could be behind it.'

He got blowed up with very next question that: Could it be possible that, IB organisation and staff appointed by Rehman Malik was part of conspiracy? Butt was looking like an idiot butt after this counter question.

If his claim holds any water than the all IB cheifs from last 10 years shall be called and questioned.
While the official story of US intelligence states that OBL was their since last 3 years, but no one had seen him other than US marines.

2- Timing of his baseless blame tells that govt. is preparing the groundwork for the reception of Musharraf.

3- It also tells a lot about the character of butt. same like AQKhan he is on press and humiliating an institution to which he failed to hijack through a well known idiot.... called sharif.
Present govt.'s coup attempt also failed when army refused the proposal of Rehman Malik as civilian chief of army.
Second coup attempt of present govt. was the KL bill.
Third coup attempt was the so called OBL compound raid with complicity of ghadari, which is now surfacing.
Finally.. disappointed and humiliated govt. is resorting to cheap ways of blame game and this butt head butt has shown his stature.

IMO.. Present army chief had various opportunities for counter coup.

3- How can he be a army chief for even a second... if previous chief has not been served sacking notification?
He himself had acknowledged this in his previous interview... where he said that he was handed over (un-signed) notice of Pervaiz Musharraf's sacking while Musharraf was in air.

 

[Jango]

IB is under the interior ministry, not the army.

hence not only Mush gets questioned, but the present government then also is a culprit in it.

 

[asad71]

Ziauddin emerged as a totally clean man even after a long tenure as ISI Chief. A thorough professional he was known to talk little but act decisive. One PA General who did not go for cheap popularity, he led a simple life. Because he was a Corps of Engrs officer, and because he was not commanding the RWP Corps, he couldn't survive as COAS. However, even for a few hours he was promoted and appointed COAS by the lawful authority. In fact Mush'es entry was unlawful. I understand Zia holds a post under Punjab Govt. Therefore, he needs to talk carefully.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ziauddin emerged as a totally clean man even after a long tenure as ISI Chief. A thorough professional he was known to talk little but act decisive. One PA General who did not go for cheap popularity, he led a simple life. Because he was a Corps of Engrs officer, and because he was not commanding the RWP Corps, he couldn't survive as COAS. However, even for a few hours he was promoted and appointed COAS by the lawful authority. In fact Mush'es entry was unlawful. I understand Zia holds a post under Punjab Govt. Therefore, he needs to talk carefully.

He might be the most upright and honest man in the world, but that does not change the fact that he offers no definitive evidence or statement about any individual or institution sheltering OBL in Pakistan - his statements are prefaced with 'I believe/think', and not 'I know, because the individual/s responsible for hiding OBL are known to me ..' etc. etc.

His statement is no different than the ones by US officials along the lines of 'someone had to know in Pakistan ...'

Another interesting point he makes, about the IB being involved instead of the ISI, and the fact that the ISI is tiny compared to the IB in terms of size.