Foreigners don’t like Muslims, only their money: Turkish President Erdoğan

[flamer84]

1000% True ' Foreigners don’t like Muslims, only their money'

Greedy and Hypocrite ppl.

While muslims absolutely love the kaffirs huh ?

 

[al-Hasani]

Of course I'm aware. I just don't make it a point to count as you've asked. You're raising a red herring as a distraction.

Once, when [Caesar's] passion for administration flagged, he refused audience to a petitioning woman with the plea, "I haven't time." "Don't be emperor, then," she cried. He granted her a hearing. link​

If you're "getting tired" of caring about justice then you have surrendered your claims to pursue justice.

Like I wrote, you're a slave to the existing convention of your culture.

You're probably aware on the intellectual level that this is utter nonsense but don't want to admit it publicly, both for emotional and cultural reasons.

What have you done, personally, to combat rampant Jew-hatred in your culture? Nothing? Then you're condoning it.

This I understand.

Actually, we should be the first, shouldn't we? Who knows more about how to wage war humanely than Israel? Who gives even putative enemies access to its justice system other than Israel? Which nationality refuses to erase peaceful others from its midst? The Jews.

Israel is much of the good that Mohammed promised Muslims would be but without the attendant evils, is that not so?

I also see most Europeans as cynical exploiters and promoters of Jewish suffering. You might want to try to get your hands on The Forgotten Ally, written by Pierre von Passen in 1943, when he especially blames the Brits for setting up the middle east this way. The Brits wanted to preserve as much of their empire as they could and feared a middle east led by Jewish brains and powered by Arab manpower as an industrial competitor.

The current line of Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza and their apologists is that there will be peace between Jews and Arabs when the Jews are all dead. I do not consider this a 100-fold improvement..

Oh, al-Hasani, the Arabs have to give so much more before they merit this.

No, I am not. I am pointing out your very unhealthy obsession.

You do not represent justice but radicalism and extreme Zionism. You deny the basic rights of the Palestinians and you support the continuous discrimination of them and the illegal settlements. You are not interested in the end of the conflict on MUTUAL terms.

I suggest that you read up on the Hashemites. The family I belong to. It's a highly educated and traditionally a cosmopolitan family. Famed for its tolerance and inclusiveness everywhere that they have ruled. We are not like you Zionists. In fact Hashemites ruled over lands that compromised hundreds of thousands of Jews and nobody ever denied their rights nor did anyone kill them. So do not discuss culture here. I have no need to save any face. Unlike you I have both ties to this region and Europe and I am able to see this from two sides unlike most other people here. I have Muslims, Christians and Atheists in my family. Can you say the same? Moreover I am not a Palestinian nor are they my responsibility. So I have nothing to do with it. In fact I neither have anything to do with the leaders of KSA who I have not elected. Unlike your leaders. Try again.

Israel is not the West? What are you blabbering about? Israel doing wars in a humane way? Go tell that to the 1000 civilians in Gaza that died. How many Hamas members did you kill? 100?

What are you talking about? Israel did not exist when Prophet Muhammad (saws) lived. But there were plenty of Jews in Arabia and their reputation was weak to say the least.

"I also see most Europeans as cynical exploiters and promoters of Jewish suffering. You might want to try to get your hands on The Forgotten Ally, written by Pierre von Passen in 1943, when he especially blames the Brits for setting up the middle east this way. The Brits wanted to preserve as much of their empire as they could and feared a middle east led by Jewish brains and powered by Arab manpower as an industrial competitor."

Is that you there @Solomon2 ? No, it would be Arab and Jewish brainpower AND manpower. But nice hidden insult right there.

Arabs do not need to get any merit from the Jews and most Jews unlike you, can differentiate between Palestinians and for instance Moroccans and Omanis. In fact I hear that many Jews are traveling to Morocco to visit their ancestral lands.

Anyway you are discussing this with the wrong person but because I am very good at exposing your inner demons you are hellbent on challenging me to no avail as your arguments are weak as usual. I am not the one that denies the existence of Israel like you deny the existence of Palestine. You do that, not me. I am not the one that oppresses Jews. Your government in Israel that your people helped ELECT are doing that. You are the one that hates Arabs and Muslims. I am not the one that hates Jews or Judaism.

Yet because I seek justice for the Palestinians and coexistence you attack me and try to paint me with the same brush as you paint all the "evil Arabs and Muslims". Is that not right?

In fact outside of religion 50% of all Jews of this world would be the exact same as the non-Jewish Arabs. And to make matters even more funny Judaism and Islam are the most similar religions of all religions. Both founded by Semitic people and neighbors moreover. You can deny this as well but history and historical facts are on my side as usual.

 

[Serpentine]

Is this a joke? Are you for real?

Your government and the entire West have been sanctioning the Al-Assad regime for decades and put that country on the "list of terror" or what the hell Bush Jr. called it yet now you are suddenly trying to portray yourself as a Al-Assad ally.

You are clueless. Right now while we speak the US and Qatar are training the Syrian opposition at a base in Qatar. And since the UK is a client state of the US we know that you have backed that as well just like your government also supports the removal of the Al-Assad. Anyway that's not the point here as this is a point I agree with and so do the governments of those countries that you are crying about. Aside from your own obviously.

You also messed up Iraq. Together with the US. Which created ISIS. Before 2003 there had been zero terrorist attacks in Iraq. Zero.

Yet you have the audacity to criticize the local powers.

Let's not even forget what happened some 100 years ago and afterwards.

In short it's hard for me to conclude anything else other than you being a ignorant two-faced clown.

You also helped create the Palestinian-Israeli conflict (in fact this is your legacy) and this conflict has given rise to most of the problems that you witness in the ME today and much of the Muslim world.

The ME would have been a much better place without your involvement. Just like it was for MILLENNIUMS before. Nothing to do with Islam, some sects or modern-day rulers. Everyone knows this including your own academics.

You are saying UK is a client state of U.S like most GCC countries aren't, also serving as a permanent U.S base in ME. Funny, isn't it?

 

[al-Hasani]

You are saying UK is a client state of U.S like most GCC countries aren't, also serving as a permanent U.S base in ME. Funny, isn't it?

What's funny about that when I already wrote that there are only 3 truly independent countries on earth? The US, China and Russia. Ironically also the 3 main world powers.

If you think that the fake wannabe Arab Mullah's that rule your country have a independent policy then you are dead wrong. Ask yourself why your leaders are now prepared to negotiate and kiss the hands of the "Great Satan" and have been trying to do that for decades.

If it was not the West it was Russia or China. Currently you are working together with the West and the GCC in Iraq/Syria through proxies.

Many of your leaders/politicians are educated in the West. What's independent about anything like that unless you aspire to be a North Korea II which many observers have already called Iran.

 

[Steve781]

Is this a joke? Are you for real?

Your government and the entire West have been sanctioning the Al-Assad regime for decades and put that country on the "list of terror" or what the hell Bush Jr. called it yet now you are suddenly trying to portray yourself as a Al-Assad ally.

You are clueless. Right now while we speak the US and Qatar are training the Syrian opposition at a base in Qatar. And since the UK is a client state of the US we know that you have backed that as well just like your government also supports the removal of the Al-Assad. Anyway that's not the point here as this is a point I agree with and so do the governments of those countries that you are crying about. Aside from your own obviously.

You also messed up Iraq. Together with the US. Which created ISIS. Before 2003 there had been zero terrorist attacks in Iraq. Zero.

Yet you have the audacity to criticize the local powers.

Let's not even forget what happened some 100 years ago and afterwards.

In short it's hard for me to conclude anything else other than you being a ignorant two-faced clown.

You also helped create the Palestinian-Israeli conflict (in fact this is your legacy) and this conflict has given rise to most of the problems that you witness in the ME today and much of the Muslim world.

The ME would have been a much better place without your involvement. Just like it was for MILLENNIUMS before. Nothing to do with Islam, some sects or modern-day rulers. Everyone knows this including your own academics.

Yes five million Jews are undermining 250 million Arabs. That's the root of the problem.
I'm sure the Middle east would be better without our involvement. The Ottoman Empire would have survived and maintained its control of the Arabian peninsula meaning no bandits on the throne to spread their Wahhabhist poison, and no Ba'thist fascism either.
Mind you I seriously doubt that tent dwelling Bedouin nomads would have discovered oil on their own or developed the technology to extract it.

 

[al-Hasani]

Yes five million Jews are undermining 250 million Arabs. That's the root of the problem.
I'm sure the Middle east would be better without our involvement. The Ottoman Empire would have survived and maintained its control of the Arabian peninsula meaning no bandits on the throne to spread their Wahhabhist poison, and no Ba'thist fascism either.
Mind you I seriously doubt that tent dwelling Bedouin nomads would have discovered oil on their own or developed the technology to extract it.

450 million. There are 13-15 million Jews as well.

The Ottomans never had any control of the Arabian Peninsula outside of Hijaz which was ruled by a local ruling family (which happened to be my family) and they were allies of the Ottomans and recognized the Sultans supremacy until the Arab Revolt which game as a consequence of negative Ottoman policies (Young Turks Movement) and by then a rise of nationalism in the ME.

Well it was not the Brits who discovered oil nor was it the Brits that found out how to extract it.

But oil or not 3000-2000 years ago Arabia was one of the main trade centers on the planet and one of the richest areas in the world due to the incense trade and trade in general. Where was England back then? It did not even exist.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Big words from a citizen of a tiny God forsaken Island which a irrelevant history outside of the past 600 years or so who compares his tiny island with the ME - the cradle of civilization. For God's sake in KSA alone you have cities that are well over 5000 years. Inhabited by the same people. Long before anybody had heard the word "England" spoken.

When Arabs ruled most of the world England was totally irrelevant. Don't' get a few centuries of hegemony (200 years) into your head. Something that is moreover long gone by now.

 

[Steve781]

Big words from a citizen of a tiny God forsaken Island which a irrelevant history outside of the past 600 years or so who compares his tiny island with the ME - the cradle of civilization. For God's sake in KSA alone you have cities that are well over 5000 years. Inhabited by the same people. Long before anybody had heard the word "England" spoken.

When Arabs ruled most of the world England was totally irrelevant. Don't' get a few centuries of hegemony (200 years) into your hand. Something that is moreover long gone by now.

All Arab cultural and scientific acheivements have come from the Levant and North Africa. The Gulf prior to the discovery of oil was one of the most primitive places on the planet. It will be again when the oil runs out.

 

[al-Hasani]

All Arab cultural and scientific acheivements have come from the Levant and North Africa. The Gulf prior to the discovery of oil was one of the most primitive places on the planet. It will be again when the oil runs out.

LOL. Funny that more or less every cultural and scientific achievement then came from people from the Arab world came from people with an Arabian ancestry that moreover proudly emphasized that in their writings. Very strange that it were people of Arabia, Hijaz more precisely, that also ruled 4 of the 11 largest empires in human history. Basically all the Arab empires. Also funny that it was their culture, language and religion that ruled supreme. There is nothing called "The Gulf" either. KSA is not part of the "Gulf".

Strange, when the Arabian Peninsula is home to some of the oldest civilizations on the planet and 2 MILLENNIUMS before the word England appeared and it was created on your tiny God forsaken island it was one of the richest areas and most important areas of the ancient world.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dilmun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian Ocean trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pre-Islamic Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway we are talking about fellow Arabs and Semites who in ancient times were as connected as Slavic peoples in Europe, Celts or Germanic people.

Fact of the matter is that you should never talk about any history when speaking with an Arab or person from the ME as you are far behind. You have only been ahead for the past 600 years out of a history that is millennium year old. Before you even became a global power we were that for almost 1000 years. That's just during the Islamic age.

When the oil runs out, let alone all the other tons of natural resources, the GCC will become an even bigger financial power long not influenced by natural resources.

Try again clown and worry about the Arabs from the GCC that keep investing and gaining more assets in your country to your great frustration.

 

[Steve781]

LOL. Funny that more or less every cultural and scientific achievement then came from people from the Arab world came from people with an Arabian ancestry that moreover proudly emphasized that in their writings. Very strange that it were people of Arabia, Hijaz more precisely, that also ruled 4 of the 11 largest empires in human history. Basically all the Arab empires. Also funny that it was their culture, language and religion that ruled supreme. There is nothing called "The Gulf" either. KSA is not part of the "Gulf".

Strange, when the Arabian Peninsula is home to some of the oldest civilizations on the planet and 2 MILLENNIUMS before the word England appeared and it was created on your tiny God forsaken island it was one of the richest areas and most important areas of the ancient world.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dilmun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian Ocean trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pre-Islamic Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway we are talking about fellow Arabs and Semites who in ancient times were as connected as Slavic peoples in Europe, Celts or Germanic people.

Fact of the matter is that you should never talk about any history when speaking with an Arab or person from the ME as you are far behind. You have only been ahead for the past 600 years out of a history that is millennium year old.

When the oil runs out, let alone all the other tons of natural resources, the GCC will become an even bigger financial power long not influenced by natural resources.

Try again clown and worry about the Arabs from the GCC that keep investing and gaining more assets in your country to your great frustration.

You keep talking about the past. How about living in the present.
Arab Human Development Report - Worldpress.org
Apparently there are less books translated into Arabic every year than Greek despite there being only 11 million people in Greece and Cyprus

 

[atatwolf]

There are no Turkish weapons in Syria period.

So we were the ones who invaded Britain, not the other way around?

All those ISIS terrorists in Iraq and Syria are running around with US weapons.

 

[al-Hasani]

You keep talking about the past. How about living in the present.
Arab Human Development Report - Worldpress.org

Do I? You were the one that started to talk about history and got embarrassed in the process. The average KSA citizen is wealthier than the average EU citizen. They have all the opportunities and sometimes more than you outside of political/social rights which is changing constantly but you are not aware of that. The GCC on its own has a economy that is in the top 10 in the world. The GDP is almost 2 trillion and the growth rates are some of the highest. Now you are going to talk about resources? So what? Does are our resources just like gold and frankincense and other valuable resources were ours 3000 years ago. Your tiny God forsaken island without any natural resources only became relevant because you conquered other people and stole their resources. Otherwise you would be another Ireland.

We have challenges (some also big) and we are behind the West on many fronts as is the entire Muslim world and non-Western world but who said anything else? We all have good and bad periods in history. For the vast majority of the history my part of the world was far ahead of your part of the world. Very few things are static.

We are still far ahead most of the Muslim countries and we are improving constantly. Our infrastructure, economy, wealth etc. is comparable to the West. We only lack when it comes to social/political rights and we started our industrialization much, much later than you guys so you are ahead there too. It's question of time before the GCC and the Muslim world catches up with you. Your populations are dying out and aging while our populations are made up by young people many of them very driven and if they get guarantees of security etc. they will make big things. You also laughed at China when they were in a bad situation just 30 years ago but they like us are also from ancient civilizations which were leading on many fronts before you even existed.

According to the HDI as of 2014 KSA is placed as number 34. That's comparable to many European states.

Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

P.S: LOL at posting some propaganda articles written back in 2002.

 

[Solomon2]

No, I am not. I am pointing out your very unhealthy obsession.

I'm touched by your concern for my "health", cousin.

You do not represent justice but radicalism and extreme Zionism. You deny the basic rights of the Palestinians and you support the continuous discrimination of them and the illegal settlements. You are not interested in the end of the conflict on MUTUAL terms.

By terming Jewish settlements "illegal" you've rejected history and law and revealed your bias: "mutual terms" means the Arabs must have their way in everything.

I suggest that you read up on the Hashemites. The family I belong to. It's a highly educated and traditionally a cosmopolitan family. Famed for its tolerance and inclusiveness everywhere that they have ruled.

Didn't stop them from kicking the Jews out of Jordan. Their "tolerance and inclusiveness" is relative: the Arab Legion sometimes let Jews depart peacefully instead of killing them. Yet I know some Jews do agree with you, that there was a chance that under Hashemite rule to have a peaceful joint Jewish-Arab state. I once saw Jews in Jerusalem with posters of (the previous) King Hussein. Unfortunately events weren't written by Zionists and Hashemites in isolation.

We are not like you Zionists. In fact Hashemites ruled over lands that compromised hundreds of thousands of Jews and nobody ever denied their rights nor did anyone kill them. So do not discuss culture here.

I suppose you're talking about pre-1958 Iraq? Certainly not Jordan. Or maybe pre-Saudi Arabia?

I have no need to save any face. Unlike you I have both ties to this region and Europe and I am able to see this from two sides unlike most other people here. I have Muslims, Christians and Atheists in my family.

And if one of them declared himself a Zionist would he or she still be an accepted part of the family?

...I have nothing to do with it. In fact I neither have anything to do with the leaders of KSA who I have not elected.

The responsibility for a culture's biases rests both with the people and their leaders.

Israel is not the West? What are you blabbering about? Israel doing wars in a humane way? Go tell that to the 1000 civilians in Gaza that died. How many Hamas members did you kill? 100?

If you dig a bit more you'll find that many "civilians" were actually claimed by Hamas as fighters later - Hamas was just telling their usual lies. I am a bit surprised they worked on you, though - I thought you were more perceptive than that, especially since this wasn't the first time Hamas did this trick.

Is that you there @Solomon2 ? No, it would be Arab and Jewish brainpower AND manpower. But nice hidden insult right there.

No, I was representing von Passen accurately. He was not a fan of the Arabs by any means.

Arabs do not need to get any merit from the Jews and most Jews unlike you, can differentiate between Palestinians and for instance Moroccans and Omanis. In fact I hear that many Jews are traveling to Morocco to visit their ancestral lands.

While differentiating between Arabs is a just concern you nevertheless need to act to gain merit in Jews' eyes and, I think, in the eyes of G-d.

I am not the one that denies the existence of Israel like you deny the existence of Palestine. You do that, not me. I am not the one that oppresses Jews. Your government in Israel that your people helped ELECT are doing that.

Truth-turned-upside-down approach, used by Arabs when they're running on empty.

You are the one that hates Arabs and Muslims. I am not the one that hates Jews or Judaism.

But you nevertheless condone unjustifiable jew-hatred in your own culture, preferring invented "facts" to reality to justify yourself to yourself.

Yet because I seek justice for the Palestinians and coexistence -

I doubt you seek "justice for Palestinians", and co-existence is a separate subject - did not Saudis toss tens of thousands of Palestinian Arabs out after the 1991 Gulf War? How do Saudis treat the Shi'a of the Eastern Province? How do Arabs (other than Egyptians, Moroccans, and Tunisians) treat minorities of any sort on their territories today? No, for co-existence one has to look to the ZIonists, not the Arabs.

you attack me and try to paint me with the same brush as you paint all the "evil Arabs and Muslims". Is that not right?

They're the paintbrush and you're their willing canvas and paint-supplier.

 

[asquare]

450 million. There are 13-15 million Jews as well.

The Ottomans never had any control of the Arabian Peninsula outside of Hijaz which was ruled by a local ruling family (which happened to be my family) and they were allies of the Ottomans and recognized the Sultans supremacy until the Arab Revolt which game as a consequence of negative Ottoman policies (Young Turks Movement) and by then a rise of nationalism in the ME.

Well it was not the Brits who discovered oil nor was it the Brits that found out how to extract it.

But oil or not 3000-2000 years ago Arabia was one of the main trade centers on the planet and one of the richest areas in the world due to the incense trade and trade in general. Where was England back then? It did not even exist.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Big words from a citizen of a tiny God forsaken Island which a irrelevant history outside of the past 600 years or so who compares his tiny island with the ME - the cradle of civilization. For God's sake in KSA alone you have cities that are well over 5000 years. Inhabited by the same people. Long before anybody had heard the word "England" spoken.

When Arabs ruled most of the world England was totally irrelevant. Don't' get a few centuries of hegemony (200 years) into your head. Something that is moreover long gone by now.

Why cling on to the achievements of a civilisation in the distant past? Nationalists everywhere look back at their civilisation's history, identify what they feel was its peak and then, at least in their minds, want to live there indefinitely.

Pan-Islamic nationalism of the kind Erdogan espouses is retrograde and has no purpose other than to stir up emotions. What bearing does does it have on the well being of the Turkish people, Erdogan's primary responsibility? Turkey should be admired as an island of liberalism and prosperity in an, otherwise, difficult region. Erdogan seems to be doing his best to destroy the former, if not the latter.

 

[al-Hasani]

I'm touched by your concern for my "health", cousin.

By terming Jewish settlements "illegal" you've rejected history and law and revealed your bias: "mutual terms" means the Arabs must have their way in everything.

Didn't stop them from kicking the Jews out of Jordan. Their "tolerance and inclusiveness" is relative: the Arab Legion sometimes let Jews depart peacefully instead of killing them. Yet I know some Jews do agree with you, that there was a chance that under Hashemite rule to have a peaceful joint Jewish-Arab state. I once saw Jews in Jerusalem with posters of (the previous) King Hussein. Unfortunately events weren't written by Zionists and Hashemites in isolation.

You should be as people who turn a blind eye to diseases often pay a high price.

LOL. You even have Jewish users here (Zionists even) who agree that the illegal settlements are harming a possible peace.

Listen to your female cousin below:

According to most articles dealing with international law those settlements are deemed as illegal settlements hence my use of illegal.

Dismay at more Israeli illegal settlements | @guardianletters | World news | The Guardian

So at one hand you praise us Hashemites and on the other you were previously writing nonsense. I don't know what history that you have written. Before Israel came to an existence in 1948 local Arabs and mostly Jewish migrants were fighting against each other.

Jews killed more Arabs than vice versa before Israel came to an existence in 1948.

List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_villages_depopulated_during_the_Arab–Israeli_conflict

Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have a very disturbing and one-sided view of this conflict.

Yes, just like Arabs in what is now Israel were expelled. Besides most of the Arab Jews were not expelled. Only a minority. Both sides were doing bad stuff. The only difference is that more Jews lived in the remaining Arab world than Arabs in Israel which is only natural as you are dealing with what later became 22 countries.

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In any case I would have preferred (personally) that the Arab Jews had stayed in their native lands just like I would have preferred that the Arabs of Israel would have stayed in their native lands.

Stop including God in your arguments.

If you are willing to have a serious debate then we can exchange emails and you will be invited to the newly founded Arab/international forum which I cannot talk about here. This forum is not a place for serious discussion.

 

[rockstar08]

well somewhat true .. Arabs are famous for their innovative Styles of Wasting money