Fighter jet makers eye Indian riches after scaled-back French deal - G Lobby Vs LCA

[ito]

No need to go many different fighters. Get some more Rafales and invest the remaining funds in Tejas.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Tha fact is MODI GAVE AWAY $ 6 B to French to please them and you're just BSing to defend him His INCOMPETENCE is just unbelievable. For everything make a big song and dance and then f**k things up. Screwed up budget, now this.

A few things sir:

1) No one has said the 36 Rafale deal was made simply to keep the French "happy" (in fact there is plenty of business coming their way that would have kept them content )
2)We don't know what the 36 Rafale deal consists of, Modi and the DM have stated the offer the French made was "very attractive" so let's wait until the specifics are known.
3) We can't properly judge this deal nor if there will be any long term benefits including more follow-on units (and made in India) until the conclusion of the govt-govt talks that are going on AS WE SPEAK
4) 30% of the $6 billion is coming back to India in the form of offsets anyway.

 

[anant_s]

Who build them, the industrial benefits they bring, the cost to build in India and ToT are what is unclear as of now.

I'm getting a feeling that government has actually started to move in a direction of license manufacturing (which is consistent with Make in India) and perhaps relaxing ToT part. Offset clause will remain intact, but ToT will not become a roadblock in quick induction of fighters.
Infact in an another thread there are unconfirmed reports of Russia supplying 36 odd PAK FAs built in Russia reportedly in 3 years time.
Last government failing to take decision, delay in LCA induction and other factors have now led to a situation where desperation might have started to creep in IAF brass.
In this scenario if we are able to induct some high performance fighter squadrons, it actually will create a cushion for operational needs of IAF and may be from there we can dictate our own terms for Technology sharing and domestic manufacturing. But it is prudent to create an industrial complex in next decade or so, beyond HAL, that will be ready for absorbing such tech transfer. Otherwise, it will be a case of back to square one, i'm afraid.

 

[SpArK]

Along with Rafale announcement we have ordered additional 30 SU-30 MKIs ....

 

[airuah]

F-16IN is superior to block 52s in each and every sense....

Its like comparing Maruti 800 and Dzire.

Imagine a fighter formation where LCA , F16, Rafale, Mirage, Migs , Jaguar and Su 30 MKI and possibly FGFA fly together!
It would be logistical nightmare but really amusing to watch

 

[anant_s]

Along with Rafale announcement we have ordered additional 30 SU-30 MKIs ....

This is in addition to 42 ordered last year?

 

[SpArK]

This is in addition to 42 ordered last year?

Looks so...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Pakistan is not being financed by KSA or Gulf. What they pay us is something for the work we deliver them. Or compensate in terms of land lending.

your nation your views sire

thing is we cant afford to have too many fighter platforms so new MOD now wants the best it could make with existing infra with a little help form USA , Israel , France & Japan

so in future what my "chirria"tells me is that IAF might have 4-6 squads of LCA MK1 (with GE414 &indo-Israeli AESA radar) & mix wepons

272 MKIs (all will get MLU very shortli) + existing Mig 29s & M2Ks & Jags(all will be given an AESA upgrade as well)

while 36+126 Rafles & equal number of 5th gen fighters(FGFA/AMCA/AURA)

cheers mate

 

[Abingdonboy]

I'm getting a feeling that government has actually started to move in a direction of license manufacturing (which is consistent with Make in India) and perhaps relaxing ToT part. Offset clause will remain intact, but ToT will not become a roadblock in quick induction of fighters.

In this scenario if we are able to induct some high performance fighter squadrons, it actually will create a cushion for operational needs of IAF and may from there we can dictate our own terms for Technology sharing and domestic manufacturing.

I actually agree with this, I think this could be what we are seeing- to an extent. However, the issue with the MMRCA and Dassualt was never about ToT but about workshare and liability vis a vis HAL. If reports are to be believed the Govt-Govt talks will discuss the possibility of setting up a JV in India with Dassualt and a partner of their choice (probably Reliance if history tells us anything) and this would be a direct workaround to the issues Dassualt had with HAL. This would fit almost perfectly with the "Make in India" policy of the PM- local production and involving the private sector.

This seems to be the most likely scenario emerging that I can see.

Infact in an another thread there are unconfirmed reports of Russia supplying 36 odd PAK FAs built in Russia reportedly in 3 years time.

That is total horsesh!t mate. Russia is going to screw India with the FGFA and have made no indications they won't. Another reason the Rafale is needed and in large numbers- to fill the void until the FGFA is online in the IAF, the LCA obviously won't do that. And thus why the DM keeps using the phrase "strategic" when it comes to the Rafale.

Looks so...

View attachment 215569

Lol, the FGFA is going nowhere, no way are the Rafale's funds going to be used for the FGFA (which has already been budgeted for for a LONG time).

 

[black-hawk_101]

your nation your views sire

thing is we cant afford to have too many fighter platforms so new MOD now wants the best it could make with existing infra with a little help form USA , Israel , France & Japan

so in future what my "chirria"tells me is that IAF might have 4-6 squads of LCA MK1 (with GE414 &indo-Israeli AESA radar) & mix wepons

272 MKIs (all will get MLU very shortli) + existing Mig 29s & M2Ks & Jags(all will be given an AESA upgrade as well)

while 36+126 Rafles & equal number of 5th gen fighters(FGFA/AMCA/AURA)

cheers mate

We are hoping that PAF is going to get funds and will order these:
32-52 Block-52s.
14 used F-16s Block-15s from US which is our own
additional used F-16s Block-15s from South America, EU and Asian countries.

Most of the Indians think Pakistanis want to fight with India. Honestly its not the case. We have security issues with:
INDIA
IRAN
AFGHANISTAN
China-some minor ones

Non-Border related
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
other ex-soviet countries
Africa

 

[GURU DUTT]

We are hoping that PAF is going to get funds and will order these:
32-52 Block-52s.
14 used F-16s Block-15s from US which is our own
additional used F-16s Block-15s from South America, EU and Asian countries.

good luck with it sir i hope you get them fast as u are sending your troops to "help SA in defending itself from yemen"

as for pakistani problems well thats none of owr buisness to bother about your nation your forign policy so good luck with it too Sir

 

[N3oN]

And which part of 'is we have no money then why are we splurging USD 6 BILLION on 30 fighters did you not get? You don't have the money today then you know you don't have money tomorrow so why did you buy fighters you know were always going to be most expnsive?

You will have more money if you don't spend half a Billion USD on building statue, dressing up like peacock etc. ANd no, Antony would have never allowed this kind of a lame duck decision to go ahead. He would never have sold India's interests to please trhe French like Modi has done. Total cancellation is not a ;preferance', it is an inevitability if that's how you are looking at thigs. Even the French will have to build fighters no ask tooth fairy to send them down. The same could have been asked from the Russians if price is the only option. UIS would have delivered them even sooner- the F 18 has been in production for decades and even the AUssies have used them stop gaps now as part of regulaer squadrons. Tha fact is MODI GAVE AWAY $ 6 B to French to please them and you're just BSing to defend him His INCOMPETENCE is just unbelievable. For everything make a big song and dance and then f**k things up. Screwed up budget, now this.

You are just a UPA supporter nothing else.. LCA as a replacement of mig21 is win win situation... Rafal can do much in lower numbers.. MOD took this decision to improve IAF capabilities in short term.. And as per the IAF requirement because they only selected rafal .. LCA mk2 is the best possible option for replacement of migs21 in long term.

Regards.

 

[anant_s]

Must say, just a week of PM declaring India's intention to get Rafale has really set Cat amongst Pigeons.
Now all of a sudden HAL may supply 6 LCA squadrons in 5 years, France is ready to make deal more attractive, SAAB is offering support and perhaps Russia will supply India PAK FA/FGFA even before meeting its own requirement.
Sajid Khan's movie scripts are less crazy.

 

[GURU DUTT]

You are just a UPA supporter nothing else.. LCA as a replacement of mig21 is win win situation... Rafal can do much in lower numbers.. MOD took this decision to improve IAF capabilities in short term.. And as per the IAF requirement because they only selected rafal .. LCA mk2 is the best possible option for replacement of migs21 in long term.

Regards.

if corrupt UPA & IAF had its way they would havegiven a green signal to MMRCA deal as it was + orderred equal numbers of second hand american F-16(given a AESA & new engine MLU)

as for LCA well even a MK1 as of now can do job of a bison & mig 27 as it is

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Along with Rafale announcement we have ordered additional 30 SU-30 MKIs ....

Which will supplement the heavy class. It's the mid category & light fighters where we need to fill the gaps.