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FBI arrests two for being allegedly on ISI payroll

no....we would be celebrating on 1972 if British occupation ended that year and if Muslims of the subcontinent didnt have seperate nation until that year.....

Pakistan went its way in 1947. Bangladesh (always a seperate nation from the beginning) went ''its own way'' in 71. Both entities which were part of british-run hindustan went seperate ways in 47, neither ever rejoined (if they did, it would have been catastrophic)

so you should admit your mistake in that post and just move on

But your country as it exists today only came into existence in 1972. The country created on 14th Aug 1947 by Quid-e-Azam does not exist any more. Instead there are 2 smaller countries that split. None of them should have the sole claim on the idea and vision on Jinnah and Iqbal since that ceased to exist on that day

After all, we are applying the same logic to Pakistan splitting out of India..
 
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What makes this case of lobbying particularly pernicious, in my opinion, is that the accused appear to be portraying Pakistan's desires as the same as Kashmir's.

which has long been a similar ''desire'' of the rest of the civilized world --and a ''desire'' of the UN itself;

i.e. both sides coming to the table, allowing the so-called ''displaced pundits'' to return, allowing for conditions conducive (as if they werent already) for a referendum in which the PEOPLE of Kashmir are allowed their existential right towards self-determination

i fail to see how such an outcome --a seemingly very fair and balanced one --can be mistaken as ''pro Pakistani''

you'd be best served by visiting KAC's web site; dont allow these indians to clog your thinking with their empty rhetoric



I've discussed earlier what Pakistan's ambassador has written, how the ISI worked to suppress pro-independence dissent in Kashmir,

I think Asim Aqil said it best:

Your pro-freedom positions are "national interests" thick. Tomoorow if Oil is discovered in Kashmir, suddenly Kashmir's freedom would be the most important thing for the Americans. America goes around the world convincing everyone else not to support Pakistan on Kashmir because we have the moral upper ground and its always possible people will support us. All your talk about democracy goes down the drain when you prove through your actions on why the self-determination right is not allowable for Kashmiris.


including the slaying of anti-Indian activists, because the ISI wants only pro-Pakistani Kashmiris to have a voice.

i personally dont subscribe to that nonsense, though I will point out that those fighting for Kashmiri Azady would be best served not allowing themselves to become factionalized. They should ''secularize'' their struggle and remove religious over-tones. Because in actuality, the Kashmiri freedom struggle against indian occupation is not a war of religious ideals. It's a war over the occupied resisting the occupier, despite threats of violence and retribution by the bullying and draconian-minded occupier.

interestingly enough (and as we saw during the large protests some months back) you had Islamists and ''westernized'' more moderate/secular protestors --all side by side. Similar to what we saw at Tahrir Square in Cairo, where everyone from pro-Ikhwan al Muslimeen types to secular nationalists to apolitical people --protesting and demanding rapid changes. A movement that has so far been succesful, without the need for terrorism or anarchy (which failed entities like ''al qaeda'' seem to think is the only means necessary)



This appears to be the Washington arm of such efforts.

Washingtons aim is to attempt to use the indians as some sort of half bulwark against China. Given Pakistan's recent non-compliance towards American/NATO demands, given the arrests of RD and American contractors (spies) in Pakistan, and given that Pakistan is not playing by your '''rules and role'' in Afghanistan while at the same time cooperating with your rivals (China, Iran) are reason behind Washingtons aim at punishing Pakistan.

it's a failed strategy simply because arresting Mr. Fai (using him as a scapegoat to snub Pakistan) will have no effect on either the Kashmiri struggle itself, nor will it cause any paradigm shift as far as Pakistan and the Kashmir issues are concerned. It also highlights inconsistencies and double-standards because there are countless missions in Washington where foreign money is used to influence local lobbyists and political figures

cases in point:

AIPAC and israeli interests; the Armenian lobby and its mass politicization (drama) of the so-called ''Turkish genocide''
 
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But your country as it exists today only came into existence in 1972. The country created on 14th Aug 1947 by Quid-e-Azam does not exist any more. Instead there are 2 smaller countries that split. None of them should have the sole claim on the idea and vision on Jinnah and Iqbal since that ceased to exist on that day

After all, we are applying the same logic to Pakistan splitting out of India..



I just came to know that Bangladesh was a separate country from the beginning. lol

Stop spewing nonsense please. The political entity in existence before 1947 was the British Colony of British India, which also consisted of various Princely States with rulers that in essence 'paid tribute' to the British in order to be allowed to govern their 'Kingdoms'.

Prior to the British colonizing the sub-continent, it was an amalgamation of various Princely States and Kingdoms - there was never a single political entity of India - the lands comprising Pakistan, and parts of India, have been parts of various empires centered both East and West of modern Pakistan.

In contrast, a sovereign nation called Pakistan did exist from 1947 to 1971, and it was Bangladesh that was created in 1971, which resulted in a smaller 'Pakistan'. There was no unified, sovereign nation called 'India' prior to 1947.

Indians need to stop regurgitating this nonsensical propganda taught in their text-books.
 
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On Topic - does the documentation available publicly so far indicate what kind of evidence the FBI actually has to support its allegations against these two individuals?

The FBI is arguing the two individuals received money from the ISI specifically for the purposes of promoting the Kashmir cause - that would mean that they have some sort of credible evidence linking the money received by these individuals to the 'Institution of the ISI' and/or 'individuals employed by the ISI'. I'd like to see what the basis of their case is.
 
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On Topic - does the documentation available publicly so far indicate what kind of evidence the FBI actually has to support its allegations against these two individuals?

The FBI is arguing the two individuals received money from the ISI specifically for the purposes of promoting the Kashmir cause - that would mean that they have some sort of credible evidence linking the money received by these individuals to the 'Institution of the ISI' and/or 'individuals employed by the ISI'. I'd like to see what the basis of their case is.

The basis is failure to register, not the source of the funds or the promotion of the Kashmir cause per se, just like Al Capone was caught for tax evasion.
 
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thus far and based on the givens, it appears to be technical/financial in nature.....misdemeanor 'crimes' at best

worst-case scenario: Mr. Fai is imprisoned, with some of the sentencing suspended; back-taxes paid; new head of KAC appointed

though we'll have to wait for further info (and politics) to take place.
 
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On Topic - does the documentation available publicly so far indicate what kind of evidence the FBI actually has to support its allegations against these two individuals?

The FBI is arguing the two individuals received money from the ISI specifically for the purposes of promoting the Kashmir cause - that would mean that they have some sort of credible evidence linking the money received by these individuals to the 'Institution of the ISI' and/or 'individuals employed by the ISI'. I'd like to see what the basis of their case is.

The FBI affidavit according to media reports talks about the 4000 e-mail and telephone conversations between Fai and his ISI handlers.
 
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Stop spewing nonsense please. The political entity in existence before 1947 was the British Colony of British India, which also consisted of various Princely States with rulers that in essence 'paid tribute' to the British in order to be allowed to govern their 'Kingdoms'.

Prior to the British colonizing the sub-continent, it was an amalgamation of various Princely States and Kingdoms - there was never a single political entity of India - the lands comprising Pakistan, and parts of India, have been parts of various empires centered both East and West of modern Pakistan.

In contrast, a sovereign nation called Pakistan did exist from 1947 to 1971, and it was Bangladesh that was created in 1971, which resulted in a smaller 'Pakistan'. There was no unified, sovereign nation called 'India' prior to 1947.

Indians need to stop regurgitating this nonsensical propganda taught in their text-books.

Oh, the irony is killing me ! :lol:

Although the whole of India has never existed as one country, the region has always been known as India unlike East and West Pakistan which never existed until the 1900's except for a poet's imagination.
 
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Failure to register as what?

the Americans are saying that he did not register his alleged ''ties with foreign government'' to the Justice Department......whatever funds he was ALLEGEDLY receiving ''from the ISI'' was untaxed and undeclared money


thus far, all allegations......''crimes'' that regularly take place in other lobbying operations in the city, ''crimes'' that take place every 4 years during campaign season as well :)



you know how much the Saudis pay to support the Republican party? Fox News?
 
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both sides coming to the table, allowing the so-called ''displaced pundits'' to return, allowing for conditions conducive (as if they werent already) for a referendum in which the PEOPLE of Kashmir are allowed their existential right towards self-determination i fail to see how such an outcome --a seemingly very fair and balanced one --can be mistaken as ''pro Pakistani''
The original desire was a democratic vote for Kashmir to choose either Pakistan or India. The people the ISI has been murdering want independence to be an option as well. Whether you consider adding that option to account for the separate developments of the past sixty years to be just or not, that cannot justify Pakistani efforts to oppress and kill Kashmiris for political purposes.[/quote]

it's a failed strategy simply because arresting Mr. Fai (using him as a scapegoat to snub Pakistan)
So far, only Pro Publica found an official willing to comment on the matter. So this isn't a case of using Mr. Fai as some kind of scapegoat; officials are keeping quiet to assure a successful conviction.

will have no effect on either the Kashmiri struggle itself, nor will it cause any paradigm shift as far as Pakistan and the Kashmir issues are concerned.
It has already had an effect upon how the Kashmiri struggle is seen in Washington.

It also highlights inconsistencies and double-standards because there are countless missions in Washington where foreign money is used to influence local lobbyists and political figures
Foreign governments use REGISTERED lobbyists and the GoP knows the score. Obviously they tried to conceal their connection because they knew the KAC would immediately be portrayed as a Pakistani puppet.
 
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Failure to register as what?

Failure to register as a Foreign agent for lobbying purposes indicating the source of the funding. Fai never himself registered for lobbying on behalf of Pakistan. Basically, he was doing Illegal lobbying for Pakistan and if proved (most likely will be proved) will face up to 5 year prison.
 
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The FBI affidavit according to media reports talks about the 4000 e-mail and telephone conversations between Fai and his ISI handlers.
So the FBI is certain that these individuals are 'ISI agents'?

Do the phone and email conversations refer to them as such?

The identity of these individuals will have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt in court.

Emails alone I would be skeptical of, given the ease with which they could be forged, and if Fai denies writing such emails that would certainly cast suspicion on their veracity IMO.
 
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Failure to register as a Foreign agent for lobbying purposes indicating the source of the funding. Fai never himself registered for lobbying on behalf of Pakistan. Basically, he was doing Illegal lobbying for Pakistan and if proved (most likely will be proved) will face up to 5 year prison.
Which goes back to my point made earlier that:

The FBI is arguing the two individuals received money from the ISI specifically for the purposes of promoting the Kashmir cause - that would mean that they have some sort of credible evidence linking the money received by these individuals to the 'Institution of the ISI' and/or 'individuals employed by the ISI'. I'd like to see what the basis of their case is.
 
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