FBI arrests two for being allegedly on ISI payroll

[VCheng]

I am sorry, but which part of all those excerpts actually addresses my question regarding information about the evidence being used by the FBI to support its allegations against these individuals?

As far as I can tell, the excerpts merely reiterate the allegations in detail, rather than provide any insight into the kind of evidence being used to support the allegations. LP did understand my question and his excerpts did cover my question.

Failure to register as what?

Oh I am sorry, I thought I was answering the "register as what" part you had asked.

The indictment is public. The evidence will be presented at the trial.

I hope I answered you correctly this time.

 

[Dance]

Pakistan accuses US of slander over Fai’s arrest​

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan accused United States on Thursday of a “slander campaign” against Islamabad over the arrest of a man accused of acting as a Pakistani government agent in the United States.

Ghulam Nabi Fai, 62, a US citizen detained on Tuesday, is suspected of links to a decades-long effort that allegedly funnelled millions of dollars to Washington to lobby US politicians on behalf of Kashmiri causes.

The US Justice Department said Fai and Zaheer Ahmad, 63, a US citizen and resident of Pakistan, faced five years in prison if found guilty.

“Dr Fai is a US citizen. A demarche was made to the US embassy in Islamabad today to register our concerns, in particular the slander campaign against Pakistan,” the ministry of foreign affairs said in a statement.

Fai was arrested on Tuesday morning and set to appear Thursday before a court in Alexandria, near the US capital. Ahmad is believed to be in Pakistan.

“Foreign governments who try to influence the United States by using unregistered agents threaten our national security,” FBI Assistant Director in Charge James McJunkin said.

The influence peddling allegations provoked an angry response from Islamabad.

“Upholding fundamental rights of Kashmiris is the fundamental responsibility of the international community and all conscientious people who value human rights and values,” the statement from Pakistan’s foreign ministry added.

“Campaigns to defame the just cause of the Kashmiri people will not affect its legitimacy,” it added.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/07/21/pakistan-accuses-us-of-slander-over-fai’s-arrest.html

 

[Dance]

Dr Fai`s arrest​

R Ghulam Nabi Fai`s arrest for purportedly threatening US national security and having alleged links to the ISI must come as a surprise to many, including US officials, who have known him for decades as a political activist with an unblemished record. As director of the Kashmiri American Council, Dr Fai had been working for projecting the cause of Kashmir`s freedom to the American people by means which until his arrest on Tuesday had never aroused suspicion. A PhD in mass communications from Temple University, Pennsylvania, Dr Fai is a recipient of some prestigious American awards. Against this background, the National Security authorities` allegation that Dr Fai is an ISI agent does not appear credible. The prosecutors alleged that Dr Fai and another Pakistani, Zaheer Ahmad, acted in a manner that tried to hide Islamabad`s involvement in efforts to influence US policy on Kashmir through organisations which were funded by the ISI.

Lobbying in America is a recognised political activity and profession operating within the law. The lobbies range from ethnic and denominational groups to those catering to commercial interests, and help clarify issues for lawmakers. Dr Fai and his organisation have behaved no differently. He is not linked to any terrorist activity directly or indirectly. All along he has acted as a political activist projecting the cause of Kashmir`s freedom to the American people. It appears that the main allegation against him was of violating lobbying laws by taking money from another country. If that is the case, the issue could have been raised during the recent negotiations between the ISI and CIA chiefs at a time of strained US-Pakistan ties. His arrest at this stage, after decades of peaceful work, can only be considered as yet another manifestation of the post-9/11 paranoia characterising the policies of America`s security set-up.

Dr Fai`s arrest | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

 

[Evil Flare]

ISI & govt must be working in interest of Pakistan than ...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh I am sorry, I thought I was answering the "register as what" part you had asked.

The indictment is public. The evidence will be presented at the trial.

I hope I answered you correctly this time.

You completely misunderstood my original question in your original response to me, and merely repeated the allegations, rather than providing the actual justification behind them. My question was meant to point that out, a subtlety you missed entirely, obviously.

As for the 'evidence at trial', as I said, there is a significant burden of proof on the accuser that needs to be satisfied, and merely claiming 'XYZ said so' does not suffice - yet the American media, Americans, Indians and their apologists appear to have thrown out 'wait till the trial is over and guilt established' in condemning Pakistan and these individuals.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

ISI & govt must be working in interest of Pakistan than ...

The ISI does not have armed ISI agents roaming the streets of America shooting down Americans in broad daylight at least ....

 

[ramu]

Oh, the irony is killing me !

Although the whole of India has never existed as one country, the region has always been known as India unlike East and West Pakistan which never existed until the 1900's except for a poet's imagination.

Obviously his text books don't make any mention of history from the last 1000 years but start cherry picking histoty in the last 200 years.

 

[VCheng]

You completely misunderstood my original question in your original response to me, and merely repeated the allegations, rather than providing the actual justification behind them. My question was meant to point that out, a subtlety you missed entirely, obviously.

As for the 'evidence at trial', as I said, there is a significant burden of proof on the accuser that needs to be satisfied, and merely claiming 'XYZ said so' does not suffice - yet the American media, Americans, Indians and their apologists appear to have thrown out 'wait till the trial is over and guilt established' in condemning Pakistan and these individuals.

I must have missed any intended subtleties simply because there are none in the judicial system here. Indeed, the burden of proof is on the State, and the prosecution will do its best to satisfy it, as will the defence in trying to exonerate their client. The "justification" of the charges you seek is clearly laid out in the indictment: that is the failure to register as required under the FARA legislation.

And, in all fairness, the media here is not at all hysterical as it was in Pakistan over RD. This site of course, went into Status Epilepticus over that episode.

 

[karan.1970]

Stop spewing nonsense please. The political entity in existence before 1947 was the British Colony of British India, which also consisted of various Princely States with rulers that in essence 'paid tribute' to the British in order to be allowed to govern their 'Kingdoms'.

Prior to the British colonizing the sub-continent, it was an amalgamation of various Princely States and Kingdoms - there was never a single political entity of India - the lands comprising Pakistan, and parts of India, have been parts of various empires centered both East and West of modern Pakistan.

In contrast, a sovereign nation called Pakistan did exist from 1947 to 1971, and it was Bangladesh that was created in 1971, which resulted in a smaller 'Pakistan'. There was no unified, sovereign nation called 'India' prior to 1947.

Indians need to stop regurgitating this nonsensical propganda taught in their text-books.

Firstly, a hi after a long time..

Secondly, Isnt India (as a whole entity) one of the original signatories on the UN charter of 1942 as a separate entity from Britain and doesn't Current India's membership in the UN date back to 1945 ( a couple years before Pak came into existence). Which leads me to extrapolate that atleast in UN, India as a country existed from 1942 and has a full membership from 1945. Which in turn means Pakistan was carved out of that entity only and not amalgamated from a bunch of princely states or carved out of Britain...

But then why are we discussing this historical fact in a thread about 2 allegedly fake Kashmir sympathizers ??

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Obviously his text books don't make any mention of history from the last 1000 years but start cherry picking histoty in the last 200 years.

You mean 'history' from when Pakistan and parts of modern day Western India were part of 'Afghan Empires'?

So why solely claim an 'Indian nation', when the peoples and lands of modern Pakistan were parts of empires not centered in modern India?

Some of you Indians need to get your collective heads out of the Hindutva 'Akhand Bharat' nonsense tought to you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Firstly, a hi after a long time..

Secondly, Isnt India (as a whole entity) one of the original signatories on the UN charter of 1942 as a separate entity from Britain and doesn't Current India's membership in the UN date back to 1945 ( a couple years before Pak came into existence). Which leads me to extrapolate that atleast in UN, India as a country existed from 1942 and has a full membership from 1945. Which in turn means Pakistan was carved out of that entity only and not amalgamated from a bunch of princely states or carved out of Britain...

How could India exist as a 'nation' in 1945, when it wasnt even independent of the British at that point?

Modern day India's membership was essentially applied retroactively - perhaps because modern day India chose to adopt the name 'India' and was the largest entity, geographically and demographically, to come out of the partitioning of the British colony of India. The fact that the rulers of various princely states had to determine whether or not to become part of India or Pakistan further supports the argument that India did not exist as a nation prior to 1947, since there would be no need for 'accession of States'.

But then why are we discussing this historical fact in a thread about 2 allegedly fake Kashmir sympathizers ??

Ask the Indian posters who resorted to regurgitating Hindutva nonsense related to the above issue.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I must have missed any intended subtleties simply because there are none in the judicial system here. Indeed, the burden of proof is on the State, and the prosecution will do its best to satisfy it, as will the defence in trying to exonerate their client. The "justification" of the charges you seek is clearly laid out in the indictment: that is the failure to register as required under the FARA legislation.

Your interpretation is incorrect - the 'charge' is 'failure to register ...', - the 'justification for the charge', based on what is known currently, are alleged 'witness statements and email/phone records', whose veracity will have to be proved in court.

And, in all fairness, the media here is not at all hysterical as it was in Pakistan over RD. This site of course, went into Status Epilepticus over that episode.

Utter poppycock - the media in the US has gone overboard in calling these men 'spies, ISI agents' and calling Pakistan 'duplictious and guilty of running an espionage ring', when anyone with half a brain could see that none of the charges involve 'espionage'.

Davis was involved in gunning down two Pakistanis in cold blood in broad daylight on a busy street - for you to even compare the two incidents and try and correlate the reaction in Pakistan to the reaction in the US exposes your bias and lack of objectivity in covering Pakistan-US affairs.

 

[karan.1970]

How could India exist as a 'nation' in 1945, when it wasnt even independent of the British at that point?

Modern day India's membership was essentially applied retroactively - perhaps because modern day India chose to adopt the name 'India' and was the largest entity, geographically and demographically, to come out of the partitioning of the British colony of India. The fact that the rulers of various princely states had to determine whether or not to become part of India or Pakistan further supports the argument that India did not exist as a nation prior to 1947, since there would be no need for 'accession of States'.

Ask the Indian posters who resorted to regurgitating Hindutva nonsense related to the above issue.

Hmm.. Not sure I agree to your logic here..
1. http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/history/declaration.shtml --> clearly shows India as a separate signatory from Britain. Dont understand your comment about retrospective application of Membership. So while India was under the rule of British, it was still a separate entity which is clearly shown in the link I have posted.
2. I think the 1st comment on this was posted by Abu Zolfiquar. (and poor AmberDutt got banned ). Or may be I am missing some post

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...eing-allegedly-isi-payroll-8.html#post1961670

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hmm.. Not sure I agree to your logic here..
1. History of the United Nations Charter --> clearly shows India as a separate signatory from Britain.

Dont understand your comment about retrospective application of Membership. So while India was under the rule of British, it was still a separate entity which is clearly shown in the link I have posted.

A 'separate signatory' does not equate to 'separate nation'. Given that this entity was not even an independent and sovereign 'country', all it amounts to is the British essentially trying to get an extra vote in the UN.

2. I think the 1st comment on this was posted by Abu Zolfiquar. (and poor AmberDutt got banned ). Or may be I am missing some post

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...eing-allegedly-isi-payroll-8.html#post1961670

Your link takes me nowhere ... and I do not remember AZ calling Pakistan 'a part of India, similar to Kashmir or Bangladesh'.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan never was part of india...so lets just leave it at that. I dont know why you people bark on and on about Pakistan or its nationhood when all else fails. Isnt it enough that people demanded an independent country (by Muslims, for all Muslims & non-Muslims even of the sub-continent)

so just leave it, otherwise leave the forum and go to bha-rat rakshak.


as for the topic, Mr. Fai was remanded --'he's still in judicial custody. Being in DC, I hope i'll get a chance to very closely monitor the proceedings and show my moral support to this alleged ISI agent.