FBI arrests two for being allegedly on ISI payroll

[Peshwa]

well hmmm gee-whiz!!!

seems to ring some bells.....


but when push comes to shove, and if these ALLEGATIONS are true, then fine, this activist is now an "unregistered agent of Pakistani ISI".......so then what?

Im not arguing about Mr. Fai being an ISI agent.....I am saying that he is an unregistered foreign agent (meaning GOP not ISI) that is "illegally" channeling funds to further Pakistan's cause...
All this based on US law...U can take up the validity/discriminatory aspects of the law with them....

"Then What" You ask?...Nothing...Pakistan and Kashmiri seperatist can potentially lose an influential tool in voicing their opinions in the US....
No sweat here....

Do CIA, Mossad, Mi6, etc. register their agents, operatives, "assets" in foreign countries?

Do foreign countries have the same laws as the US? Assuming the answer is no...

I know that the ISI and CIA inform each other of intelligence attache's within the respective embassies.

In this hypothetical situation, how is he any different from the other lobbyist?

He isnt....But then what was the reason not to register?

The Israeli lobby (AIPAC) surely gets money from Israel and they are the biggest, most influential in Washington DC but Americans are either unaware or unable to criticize them or question their activities (some could argue that US politicians themselves feel 'compelled' to remain deaf, dumb & mute.

AIPAC is a very overt group of Israeli lobbyists....so in essence it is assumed that they are registered as per US law as the US public is aware of their influence on lawmakers....How else would you...a Pakistani know about their role otherwise?

The KAC is unregistered....hence unlike the AIPAC, it is unregistered and hence their "lobbying" is illegal in accordance with US law...

Why do you think they chose to go the covert way?

--20 years of operating in the US, and he gets "uncovered" now?

Could have been an oversight similar to Pakistan's in the OBL case...

--receiving funding from US, yet "Pakistani funding" comes into question?

Because Pakistan is a foreign country....US citizens by definition of democracy are allowed to influence their lawmakers....
You simply have to reference the law and the charge being fielded against Mr. Fai

--allegations arise during Secretary of State's visit to india?

Correlation does not equal causation....but you're free to speculate as a Pakistani

even a mental retard who smokes cheap crack on a daily basis cannot overlook these things.

Maybe its time not to take opinions from crackheads too seriously....like most people, you should learn to ignore them instead of making them the threshold for comparison

 

[Guest01]

the indians are living a fool's dream if they think that Kashmiris aspire to be a part of hindustan.....the country whom the majority of the residents there view as illegitimate occupiers

Pakistani assessment about everyone's aspirations in the region have been wrong. Pakistan could not even correctly predict the Talibani aspirations. Pakistan was wrong about US and wrong about India too. For Pakistan's dream to come true too much had to fall apart, too rapidly. The kashmir dream seems to be flatlining pretty fast for pakistan. As is quite visible, things have turned another corner this week.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

FO concerns over detention of Dr Fai​

ISLAMABAD: Expressing its concern over the detention of Dr. Ghulam Nabi Fai in the United States, Pakistan on Thursday said campaigns to defame the just cause of the Kashmiri people will not affect its legitimacy.

"A demarche was made to the US Embassy in Islamabad today to register our concerns, in particular the slander campaign against Pakistan. Our Embassy in Washington has also been asked to ascertain details," a foreign office statement issued here on Thursday said.

"We appreciate the contributions made by the Kashmiri-American Council (KAC) and Dr. Ghulam Nabi Fai for the cause of Jammu and Kashmir."

"Jammu and Kashmir is one of the oldest disputes on the agenda of the UN. There are several UN Security Council Resolutions on the subject that affirm the inalienable right of the Kashmiris to self-determination," the statement said.

"Upholding fundamental rights of Kashmiris is the fundamental responsibility of the international community and all conscientious people who value human rights and values."

"KAC has been working towards this end and Kashmiris appreciate and applaud its services. Campaigns to defame the just cause of the Kashmiri people will not affect its legitimacy. Dr. Fai is a US citizen," the statement added.

FO concerns over detention of Dr Fai - GEO.tv

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistani assessment about everyone's aspirations in the region have been wrong. Pakistan could not even correctly predict the Talibani aspirations. Pakistan was wrong about US and wrong about India too. For Pakistan's dream to come true too much had to fall apart, too rapidly. The kashmir dream seems to be flatlining pretty fast for pakistan. As is quite visible, things have turned another corner this week.

Not necessarily. I dont see a paradigm shift of any sort. You are foolish if you think he is the only person in the U.S. (or any other 'influential' country) speaking in favour of Kashmiri freedom. . .

moreover the solution of Kashmir does not come from his mouth; he was a lobbyist and PR guy, not a politician and most certainly not a ''spy''

 

[Peshwa]

Not necessarily. I dont see a paradigm shift of any sort. You are foolish if you think he is the only person in the U.S. (or any other 'influential' country) speaking in favour of Kashmiri freedom. . .

moreover the solution of Kashmir does not come from his mouth; he was a lobbyist and PR guy, not a politician and most certainly not a ''spy''

Looking at the larger picture...It does undermine the Kashmiri movement as being motivated by Pakistan......
whether its genuine or not remains largely moot since the object is to influence western perception and this case doesnt help the "genuine" argument

You're attributing the arrest of Mr. Fai as being some monumental feat.....He was simply a lobbyist and from his contacts seems a good one at that....

The consequenes here are....Pakistan has lost (by virtue of being accused) the credibility of an influential lobbyist.....undermined the role of KAC since now they end up looking like nothing more than a face for Pakistani propoganda....

Mr. Fai getting jailtime is inconsequential (from an Indian perspective) since the damage from a PR standpoint is done already

 

[Guest01]

Not necessarily. I dont see a paradigm shift of any sort. You are foolish if you think he is the only person in the U.S. (or any other 'influential' country) speaking in favour of Kashmiri freedom. . .

moreover the solution of Kashmir does not come from his mouth; he was a lobbyist and PR guy, not a politician and most certainly not a ''spy''

Another quite ordinary assertion. Do you not see sir that this is not about the individual. This is about making an expose out of the pakistani government /ISI hand in the kashmir cookie jar. Can you not already see the fallout in the form of congressman burton situation. This is about a very visible demolishing of the pakistani legitimacy of involvement in the kashmir matter. Why do you think that this is getting so much press? Can you see anyone in congress or the senate touching pakistani claim with a bargepole now? At least in the short to medium term till the next surprise package arrives. I hope that you are familiar with the concept of a mistrial.

Irony is that there is another thread running on the forum = The Monkey Trap. This situation gives so much away. Quicksand.

 

[Solomon2]

Revealed: Man Sought in Plot to Influence U.S. Politics Is Prominent Figure in Pakistan

by Kim Barker
ProPublica, July 20, 2011, 10:03 p.m.


Dr. Zaheer Ahmad addresses shareholders at the annual meeting of Shifa International Hospitals Ltd., of which he is president and CEO. (Shifa International Hospitals)

A doctor accused of playing a pivotal role in a plot to funnel cash from Pakistani intelligence into U.S. political campaigns is a respected figure in Pakistan who founded and runs one of the country’s leading hospitals, reporting by ProPublica shows.

The doctor, Zaheer Ahmad, 63, was charged Tuesday with conspiring to act as an unregistered agent of the government of Pakistan. In an affidavit filed in the case, an FBI agent alleges that Pakistani intelligence transferred money to Ahmad, who passed it through intermediaries to the Kashmiri American Council in Washington, a charity run by Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai. Fai, 62, who like Ahmad is a U.S. citizen, was arrested Tuesday in Virginia, where he lives. Authorities said Ahmad was believed to be in Pakistan.

Dr. Zaheer Ahmad addresses shareholders at the annual meeting of Shifa International Hospitals Ltd., of which he is president and CEO. (Shifa International Hospitals)

In An Unusual Criminal Case, the U.S. Points the Finger at Pakistan’s Top Spy Agency Again

by Kim Barker, Sebastian Rotella and Marian Wang, ProPublica July 20

A confidential witness quoted by the affidavit “said Ahmad told him he needed to get money to Fai in the United States, and that Fai would use it for the Kashmir cause and for lobbying.”

The money, at least $4 million since the mid-1990s, was allegedly spent on conferences and campaign donations aimed at swaying U.S. lawmakers on Kashmir, the disputed territory in India. It was provided by the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, the U.S. government said. It’s not clear how much went to politicians; Fai wanted to spend about $100,000 on donations to Congress in 2008 alone, the affidavit said. It’s also not clear that any of the politicians had any idea where the money came from. The ISI is implicated separately in an ongoing U.S. investigation of the 2008 attacks in Mumbai.

A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity Wednesday confirmed that the man identified in court papers as Zaheer Ahmad is the same Zaheer Ahmad who runs the Shifa International Hospital in Islamabad. Ahmad could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening.

Ahmad’s position in Pakistan highlights how difficult it will be to extradite him to the United States to face charges and, if the allegations in the affidavit are true, illustrates the ISI’s reach into the upper echelons of Pakistan’s elite. The charges are punishable by up to five years in prison.

The affidavit said that money from Pakistan was moved through a network of “straw donors” in the United States, comprised of U.S.-based Pakistani doctors and businessmen. These intermediaries donated small amounts to the council and were reimbursed, according to the affidavit by FBI agent Sarah Webb Linden. Four Pakistani men directed the operation for the government; Fai’s main handlers were two ISI officials, the affidavit said.

“I believe that Fai has received approximately $500,000 to $700,000 per year from the Government of Pakistan, and that the Government of Pakistan has funded Fai’s operations through Ahmad,” Linden wrote in the affidavit, before outlining how the government’s money was routed to Fai through Ahmad and a network of people connected to Ahmad. She also said she believed individuals in the United States helped Ahmad ostensibly to get tax deductions for donating to a charity.

The affidavit said Fai’s handlers communicated regularly with Ahmad, whose email account had contact information for Javeed Aziz Khan, allegedly the main ISI handler for Fai. When Ahmad arrived at JFK International Airport in New York on July 8, 2009, his PDA was examined, showing similar information, the affidavit said. Telephone records cited in the document show that Khan called Fai many times from the same phone number that Ahmad had for Khan. And both Khan and the other main ISI handler referred to Ahmad in conversations with Fai, calling him “the doctor” or “Zaheer,” the affidavit said.

At one point, in June 2008, Fai told Khan he needed “half a dozen Brylcreem,” or $60,000, and that it would be great to meet with “the doctor,” the affidavit said. Later, in August 2009, Khan emailed Fai that he “saw the doctor” and that his “consultation fee has increased by rupees 150,” thought to be code for a funding request Fai had earlier made for $150,000, the affidavit said.

Ahmad himself was credited with funneling about $367,700 to the council since 1993, according to receipts cited by the affidavit.

In the document, Linden wrote that “Elected Official A” reported getting a $2,000 donation from Ahmad on Sept. 13, 2004.

Campaign finance records show that Ahmad donated $2,000 to Rep. Joe Pitts, R-Pa., on Sept. 13, 2004. (Pitts was upset by the news Tuesday and donated the $2,000 from Ahmad and another $2,000 from Fai to charity, his office told the Lancaster Newspapers in Pennsylvania.)

The address for Ahmad in the campaign records is the same as one of the Brooklyn addresses for Dr. Zaheer Ahmad, who founded Shifa International Hospital in Islamabad after finishing his medical residency in the United States and moving back to Pakistan in 1985. Ahmad also is the chairman of the Tameer-e-Millat Foundation, founded in 1987 to help educate Pakistani children.

One Brooklyn doctor who knew Ahmad said he was not aware of the allegations but doubted that he could be connected to any case involving the ISI.

“I’ve known him many years,” said Dr. Tajammal Gilani, a Brooklyn doctor who’s listed as donating $350 to Pitts on the same day as Ahmad and Fai but said he did not remember the donation. “He’s an impressive person. He built a very good hospital.”

The case comes at a time of intense stress in the relationship between the United States and Pakistan. The FBI affidavit pulled no punches, repeatedly referring to the ISI and “the Government of Pakistan.” Earlier this month, U.S. officials publicly linked the ISI to the death of a Pakistani journalist and also moved to withhold $800 million in military assistance to Islamabad.

It’s unlikely Pakistan will extradite Ahmad, especially considering the charges of Pakistan's government involvement and his position. President Pervez Musharraf turned down a U.S. request in 2002 for the extradition of a man wanted in the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. In December 2009, the Pakistani government denied having an extradition treaty. But weeks later, the government flip-flopped and said that there was one.

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://pixel.propublica.org/pixel.js" async="true"></script>

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Looking at the larger picture...It does undermine the Kashmiri movement as being motivated by Pakistan......
whether its genuine or not remains largely moot since the object is to influence western perception and this case doesnt help the "genuine" argument

Kashmiri leaders are on record themselves stating that the Azadi movement has no backing or material support from Pakistan --though obviously Pakistan would morally back such an initiative.

Pakistan doesnt need to ''pay'' or even influence those protestors to act. It is an indigenous phenomenon, they would protest and rebel against hindustani regardless.

You're attributing the arrest of Mr. Fai as being some monumental feat.....He was simply a lobbyist and from his contacts seems a good one at that....

his arrest is purely political; a way to ''snub'' Pakistan only. If it was an attempt to snub the Kashmiri movement, they would have shut down the KAC and the dozens of other pro-Kashmir groups in the country

The consequenes here are....Pakistan has lost (by virtue of being accused) the credibility of an influential lobbyist.....undermined the role of KAC since now they end up looking like nothing more than a face for Pakistani propoganda....

again, look at the KAC website. There's nothing overtly ''Pakistani'' about it

a lot of their views and aspirations are in line with those espoused even by the Sec. of State and the President themselves.....KAC is simply just a thorn in the side of india's diplomatic mission. The organization itself is still running normally. I think you just dont understand how lobbying really works, so first educate yourself on that aspect and then comment.

Mr. Fai getting jailtime is inconsequential (from an Indian perspective) since the damage from a PR standpoint is done already

the only real ''damage'' here is diplomatic....this was a way of getting back at Pakistan for RD incident, for kicking out 'military trainers' from Pakistan as well as the recent arrest of 7 American nationals in Peshawar (who possessed no ID or documents proving that they were allowed to enter the city)....it's just been tit-for-tat lately.

had Pakistan been more cooperative and more of a pushover, I dont think they'd have bothered arresting Mr. Fai --regardless of Her Royal Thighness's visit to Delhi.


and again, none of this has an affect of any kind on the Kashmir Freedom Movement; save for the fact that there are ongoing protests and top seperatist leaders are condemning the arrest in a peaceful fashion

 

[Solomon2]

Pakistan doesnt need to ''pay'' or even influence those protestors to act. It is an indigenous phenomenon, they would protest and rebel against hindustani regardless.

What makes this case of lobbying particularly pernicious, in my opinion, is that the accused appear to be portraying Pakistan's desires as the same as Kashmir's. I've discussed earlier what Pakistan's ambassador has written, how the ISI worked to suppress pro-independence dissent in Kashmir, including the slaying of anti-Indian activists, because the ISI wants only pro-Pakistani Kashmiris to have a voice. This appears to be the Washington arm of such efforts.

 

[DV RULES]

FBI action forces to think only one that despite Shuja Pashsa visit to US, his trip was not successful and they can't come over one cooperative point or mutual effort work plan. Relations went in more crucial situation between both spy agencies.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

FBI action forces to think only one that despite Shuja Pashsa visit to US, his trip was not successful and they can't come over one cooperative point or mutual effort work plan. Relations went in more crucial situation between both spy agencies.

Seems just like that. Matters further down-hill. And the screws being steadily turned inwards.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In case of RD Pakistan arrested American citizen ....

Who murdered two people and whose 'blanket' diplomatic immunity remains contentious ....

 

[AmberDutt]

Pakistan never was part of india; india itself wasnt even a country until 1947

By that logic Pakistan came into existence in 1972.. March 26 that is.. Because before March 26 1972 Pakistan and Bangladesh were a single country together much like British India before 1947..

Looks like you guys have been celebrating your creation day on the wrong date..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

By that logic Pakistan came into existence in 1972.. March 26 that is.. Because before March 26 1972 Pakistan and Bangladesh were a single country together much like British India before 1947..

Looks like you guys have been celebrating your creation day on the wrong date..

no....we would be celebrating on 1972 if British occupation ended that year and if Muslims of the subcontinent didnt have seperate nation until that year.....

Pakistan went its way in 1947. Bangladesh (always a seperate nation from the beginning) went ''its own way'' in 71. Both entities which were part of british-run hindustan went seperate ways in 47, neither ever rejoined (if they did, it would have been catastrophic)

so you should admit your mistake in that post and just move on

 

[Nelson]

I just came to know that Bangladesh was a separate country from the beginning. lol