Blueskiez 2001
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I do not need a lesson in astronomy. I am quite aware of how the moon orbits and how it has phases.
Now that that’s out of the way, please tell me where in your post did you reply when i showed you where an islamic country still does moon sighting? Verbosity does not make a point more valid. Also note none your examples work as a religious analogy. Yeah we take medicine, what does that have to do with the price of peanuts? Allah’s laws are manifested in the Sunnah and do not change. How then can you reject Allah’s law implemented through the Prophet and proceed in inventing your own methods?
And i do not say , let me quote you the Quran and Hadith since you like cherry-picking for your own agenda.
“… So whoever among you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadaan), he must observe sawm (fast) that month…” [al-Baqarah 2:185]
Note the word “sights” please.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fast when you see it [the new moon] and stop fasting when you see it, and if it is cloudy then complete the month with thirty days.”
Again sight.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made the beginning of the fast conditional upon the confirmed sighting of the new moon of Ramadaan, and the ending of the fast conditional upon the confirmed sighting of the new moon of Shawwaal; he did not connect this to calculations of the movements of stars or other heavenly bodies. This is how it was done at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), during the rule of the Khulafa’ al-Raashidoon, at the time of the four imaams, and during the three centuries which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said were the best.
Referring to calculations of the lunar months to start and end periods of worship, instead of actually sighting the new moon, is a bid’ah (reprehensible innovation) that has no good in it and has no basis in sharee’ah. The best of all is to follow the salaf in religious matters, and the worst of all is to follow newly-invented innovations in religion. May Allaah protect us and you and all the Muslims from tribulation, both obvious and hidden.
Please stop quoting Quran and Hadith when you do not even know which Ayat and Hadith have to do with sighting of the moon.
Also you assume me to be narrow-minded so you gave me a dense explanation of modern science and it’s virtues. I am not against science. I already maintained that science is to be used as a tool to help.
Just came back from 16 hours shift from hospital and wow what a discussion.
First of all as a student of the Quran and with a scientific education i never approach a subject with my own agenda. Approaching a subject with your own agenda only means you are biased and then getting to the correct conclusion is very slim.
Second - sorry to say, you do need a lesson in astronomy. Why? because you do not want to accept that the moon´s steady orbit means that the moon reaches a position where it is a "new" moon regardless of whether there are any persons to sight it or not... - To clarify it more: If you are in Lahore and want to sight the new moon then what will you do? Hopefully you bring yourself to a place where you will be able to sight it. And if you don´t sight it then what? What does that mean? Did it mean that the moon slowed down in its orbit? Of course not (and there is why you need a lesson in astronomy). This means that you where not in a position where you could sight the moon. The moon was there but you did not sight it. Plain and simple. Your position is that if the moon was there and you did not sight it - then this means in your understanding that you can not have eid the next day. My position is that even though you did not sight it - but the moon was there therefore you can have eid. Your arguments for the need of sighting the moon is that this is the way Muhammad (PBUH) and Muslims have done for ever - with the references you have quoted.
You quoted 2:185. And that is very interesting. You want me to note the word sights in the translation you have given. The problem is that this is not the word in the ayat:
شهر - Month| رمضان - (of) Ramadhaan| الذي - (is) that| أنزل - was revealed| فيه - therein| القرآن - the Quran,| هدى - a Guidance| للناس - for mankind|وبينات - and clear proofs| من - of| الهدى - [the] Guidance| والفرقان - and the Criterion.| فمن - So whoever| شهد - witnesses| منكم - among you| الشهر - the month,| فليصمه - then he should fast in it,| ومن - and whoever| كان - is| مريضا - sick| أو - or| على - on| سفر - a journey| فعدة - then prescribed number (should be made up)| من - from| أيام - days| أخر - other.| يريد - Intends| الله - Allah| بكم - for you| اليسر - [the] ease| ولا - and not| يريد - intends| بكم - for you| العسر - [the] hardship,| ولتكملوا - so that you complete| العدة - the prescribed period| ولتكبروا - and that you magnify| الله - Allah| على - for| ما - [what]| هداكم - He guided you| ولعلكم - so that you may| تشكرون - (be) grateful.| (Source openburhan.net).
the word used are Shahada. NO place in this ayat there is any word that can be translated as sight. Everywhere the word shahada is used in the quran it is translated as witness. So much for your sighting - and as i can understand you have edited the word moon out of the post - as this was pointed out for you by Sarmad. So who is cherry picking?
The ayat i quoted about the orbit of planets in my earlier post was not for the start and ending of fasting and you know that - if you don´t then please re read my post.
We need to have things in the right perspective on context. At muhammad (PBUH) time the knowledge of the Arabs meant that the way they kept hold of time was by sighting moon and the sun. It was their practical solution of measuring time (Like their practical solution for transportation was the camel). The way Allah has written the quran gives the principles that holds through out regardless the time age. So the ayat 2:185 gives the possibility that at the time of Muhammads (PBUH) living they could sight the moon and we don´t need to - hence the word witness and not the word sight. So when our practical solution for transportation has moved from animals to vehicles why cant we move away from sighting the moon to calculating??
I can´t reiterate the need for the Muslims to be united enough! And we need to start here on these practical things. So Fawad initiative is well appreciated and in due time. We should as a nation start the fasting day together and celebrate eid together. The next step should be every Muslim should start fasting the same day and celebrate Eid the same day.
As pointed out by Allah in 3:103 And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.
The rope here is the Quran.